Javon Walker wants out of Denver

[MoLewisrocks]

I thought it was the Patriots' choice not to trade for him, as opposed to him not wanting to come here. Now I'm confused.

Nope, he was scheduled to visit here, but between Deion warning him he would NOT get his $$$$ here and Shanny extending the interview and likely throwing the old if you leave the area code the offer is off the table card, he never got on the plane Friday. They signed him Saturday and we drafted CJ an hour later. If they hadn't signed him they were reportedly set to draft CJ. Of course at the moment it's looking like a wash...

 

[biffman]

Nope, he was scheduled to visit here, but between Deion warning him he would NOT get his $$$$ here and Shanny extending the interview and likely throwing the old if you leave the area code the offer is off the table card, he never got on the plane Friday. They signed him Saturday and we drafted CJ an hour later. If they hadn't signed him they were reportedly set to draft CJ. Of course at the moment it's looking like a wash...

Thanks for the info. I hope CJ can get healthy so that we can see what he has.

 

[Rocky Mountain Stampede]

Boo hoo. You chose to go to a QB-less team. Deal with it.

Cutler is already one of the top ten-to-dozen QBs in football and he's just finished his sophomore season.

 

[DaBruinz]

Cutler is already one of the top ten-to-dozen QBs in football and he's just finished his sophomore season.

Sorry, but this is wishful thinking on your part. Guys I'd take over Cutler include:
Brady, P. Manning, Palmer, Hasselbeck, Brees, Bulger, Romo, Anderson, Warner, Roethlingsberger, Kitna, Garrard, Farve, Garcia, and Schaub.

Is Cutler getting better? Sure. But there is better n the league currently.
Cutler is middle of the road right now.

 

[Rocky Mountain Stampede]

Sorry, but this is wishful thinking on your part. Guys I'd take over Cutler include:
Brady, P. Manning, Palmer, Hasselbeck, Brees, Bulger, Romo, Anderson, Warner, Roethlingsberger, Kitna, Garrard, Farve, Garcia, and Schaub.

Is Cutler getting better? Sure. But there is better n the league currently.
Cutler is middle of the road right now.

Wishful thinking? Plenty of evidence that supports Cutler is a top 10-12 QB right now:

Cutler is tenth in the 2007 Football Outsiders DVOA QB ratings:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb.php

Ranked 12th in the NFL in QB rating:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?stat=pass&sort=rat&league=nfl&season=2&year=2007

Scouts Inc. recently rated him as the 11th best in the league:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/news/story?id=3147842


You really show your insanity when you mention you would rather have a mid-30s Jon Kitna over Cutler. A mediocre QB that has thrown more picks than TD passes in each of the last two seasons.

 

[Ishdul]

Sorry, but this is wishful thinking on your part. Guys I'd take over Cutler include:
Brady, P. Manning, Palmer, Hasselbeck, Brees, Bulger, Romo, Anderson, Warner, Roethlingsberger, Kitna, Garrard, Farve, Garcia, and Schaub.

Is Cutler getting better? Sure. But there is better n the league currently.
Cutler is middle of the road right now.

Kitna? Really?

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Nope, he was scheduled to visit here, but between Deion warning him he would NOT get his $$$$ here and Shanny extending the interview and likely throwing the old if you leave the area code the offer is off the table card, he never got on the plane Friday. They signed him Saturday and we drafted CJ an hour later. If they hadn't signed him they were reportedly set to draft CJ. Of course at the moment it's looking like a wash...

I think we blew a high draft pick there

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

I think we blew a high draft pick

On who????

 

[DaBruinz]

Wishful thinking? Plenty of evidence that supports Cutler is a top 10-12 QB right now:

Cutler is tenth in the 2007 Football Outsiders DVOA QB ratings:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb.php

Ranked 12th in the NFL in QB rating:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?stat=pass&sort=rat&league=nfl&season=2&year=2007

Scouts Inc. recently rated him as the 11th best in the league:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/news/story?id=3147842


You really show your insanity when you mention you would rather have a mid-30s Jon Kitna over Cutler. A mediocre QB that has thrown more picks than TD passes in each of the last two seasons.

Hmmm.. I show my insanity because I think that Cutler is over-rated by Denver fans?

As for Passer Rating, thats a useless stat in my book. I look at wins, losses, completions, attempts, TDs, and Ints. But I also look at the TEAM.

Cutler has a great running game and O-line to help take pressure off him. Kitna doesn't. The Detroit O-line isn't that great. Cutler is 8-12 as a starter with a Denver team that has a good offense with the likes of Walker, Marshall, McGahee, et al.

BTW, even if you take Kitna out, there are still 14 other QB better than Cutler.

As for Scouts, give me a break. They are a bunch of over-rated blowhards. I can remember them putting an article in ESPN The Magazine 2 years ago about how to beat the Patriots Defense. The only problem was that the defense they showed the Patriots running as their base was the 4-3 defense. One that the Patriots weren't running with any great regularlity.

DVOA is another one of those fictitious stats that show nothing unless you are a fantasy geek.

 

[DaBruinz]

Kitna? Really?

Yes, really. I'd take Kitna over Cutler with the Denver offense.

 

[Ishdul]

Yes, really. I'd take Kitna over Cutler with the Denver offense.

The Denver O-line isn't really that good in terms of pass protection. Lepsis had a horrible year and retired on the spot because he was upset with his play, Nalen was hurt in week 5 and out for the rest of the year and there's just not a whole lot else that was helping on that line.

Kitna is a small step up from the Tarvaris Jackson's and Alex Smith's of the world. The Lions O-line certainly wasn't great, but even when they were doing their job Kitna would just hold on to the ball for-****ing-ever. He throws way too many interceptions, takes way too many sacks and fumbles way, way too much for him. He gets a lot of yards because the Lions pass on every down, but he doesn't do anything to actually help the Lions score points while continually putting his defense in bad positions with his reckless play.

Cutler is no great player, but Kitna actively hurts his team by playing, whereas Cutler is at worst mediocre.

 

[Patriot Missile]

After all that crying he has the nerve to name Green bay as a possible location? Favre made this guy look like a prime receiver in the NFL and he rewards him by demanding a trade and getting his rich contract. The sad thing is the Broncos are probably going to oblige him because they have Brandon Marshall now.

 

[Rocky Mountain Stampede]

Hmmm.. I show my insanity because I think that Cutler is over-rated by Denver fans?

Broncos fans aren't saying he's an All-Pro or Pro Bowler, we believe he's one of the top 10-12 QBs in the league and I have provided evidence that supports that opinion.

Kitna is mediocre BTW, what the hell has he ever done to deserve that praise?

As for Passer Rating, thats a useless stat in my book. I look at wins, losses, completions, attempts, TDs, and Ints. But I also look at the TEAM.

Passer rating is useless? The passer rating formula thinks pretty high of your QBs listed. Obviously it has some value to it:

NFL leaders by order
1. Brady
2. Roethlisberger
3. Garrard
4. Manning
5. Romo
6. Favre
7. Garcia
8. Hasselbeck
9. McNabb
10. Warner
11. Brees
12. Cutler
13. Schaub
14. Palmer
15. Pennington
16. Rosenfels
17. Anderson
18. Rivers
19. Kitna

Bulger is 30th, but was setback by injuries.

Cutler ranks well in all the criteria you listed outside of the 7-9 record. The Broncos defense surrendered over 400 points this season, their highest total since the 1960s. He didn't get much help. The Denver defense is the reason why the Broncos are staying home this January, not the offense. If you are going to penalize Cutler for the record, what's your explanation for Palmer, Kitna and Bulger?

Cutler has a great running game and O-line to help take pressure off him. Kitna doesn't. The Detroit O-line isn't that great. Cutler is 8-12 as a starter with a Denver team that has a good offense with the likes of Walker, Marshall, McGahee, et al.

The offensive line is average in Denver. The pass protection is below average. Denver will draft an offensive tackle in 1st or 2nd round next April.

Denver has McGahee??? Walker hasn't even suited up for half of Cutler's games! Marshall is a second year receiver who has grown up with Cutler. They are learning and growing together. It wasn't like he was established when Cutler started playing.

DVOA is another one of those fictitious stats that show nothing unless you are a fantasy geek.

Football outsiders has nothing to do with fantasy football and they attempt to take the luck of the numbers to give fans a better impression of true performance. Far from perfect, but do you have something better?

BTW, DVOA also thinks really highly of your guys! They must be doing something right.

1. Brady
2. Manning
3. Favre
4. Brees
5. Garrard
6. Romo
7. Palmer
8. Hasselbeck
9. Roethlisberger
10. Cutler
11. Anderson
12. Garcia
13. Rivers
14. McNabb
15. Warner
16. Kitna
17. Campbell
18. Rosenfels
19. Schaub


I have no problem with you saying Cutler is not a top 10-12 quarterback, but give me something tangible here other than your word and own rankings. Show me a scout or expert that thinks Cutler is an average quarterback. Where the evidence that proves otherwise?

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

For the first 10 games of the season, Jay Cutler and the Denver offense spent a lot of time marching up and down the field, rolling up a lot of stats along the way, but had a lot of difficulty finding the end zone. On no less than 4 occasions this season, their fat was pulled out of the fire by 37-year-old Jason Elam at the last second.

This team, this quarterback, this coach, are all suffering from Jake Plummer Syndrome. No knock on Jake - I admire the way he handled himself after being publicly stiffed by the team - but they're an offense in search of an anchor, one that wasn't there with Jake, and one that apparently isn't there with Cutler.

Denver ownership is enamored of Shanahan, but it's only because of the ties linked to memories of Elway that clouds rational observation of what might otherwise be a fairly cut-and-dried decision to review just what this coach has done for the franchise lately.

Yes, they've had injuries to their O-line, but so have other teams. Their running game wasn't that bad, in spite of the fact the replacements don't chop-block as well as the regulars. Cutler's protection was adequate for the most part. The problem has been two-fold: poor play calling, and poor execution, especially when in the Red Zone. A disturbing propensity to turn the ball over at these times didn't help, either.

Denver's defensive woes can doubtless be traced in large part to the hiring of Jim Bates. Bates is a good coach, excellent background, filled with good ideas, strong work ethic, etc., etc., but his case in Denver reminds me a lot of the Patriots hiring Ernie Zampese back in the '90s. A great coach, but it just didn't work out.

That's how I see Bates today.

He'll get another shot next year, but undoubtedly on a shorter leash.

It's going to take the Broncos a while to right this ship, and the very first thing they have to do is start drafting wisely. They need high-quality defensive tackles that can tie up the line and not be moved out and around. They need a middle linebacker who can successfully shed blocks and perform well against the run, thereby releasing DJ Williams back to the outside, where his talents can be utilized most effectively.

John Lynch is mulling retirement, but even if he returns, he's not long for the team. The DB duo of Bailey and Bly (almost sounds like a legal firm!) is OK, but they'll struggle unless and until an answer is found on that defensive front that right now cannot consistently collapse the pocket.

And special teams? Forget it. They've stunk since cave days.

This Bronco team wasted important time and capital three years ago bringing in those Cleveland Browns rejects. They got one and a half adrenalin-induced seasons out of them, but you can only put so much make-up on a sow before people realize what it is you're offering them.

Poor drafting and poor free agent signings have been magnified by the tragic deaths of Williams and Nash. If Shanahan and company don't start turning things around, we'll be looking at a redux of the current San Francisco 49ers!

 

[ALP]

ha, we wanted javon? well....i guess im happy we got CJ instead

 

[brdmaverick]

They should trade him to Minnesota as punishment, where there is no passing game to speak of.

good stuff

 

[Dagg]

GB has plenty of WR's he wouldnt even see the field with those injury prone legs.