Polling Pats fans about your teams during this run and Randy Moss

[Brooklyn Nick]

Im pretty sure all of you would agree that this Patriot team, if they can finish the deal and win a Lombardi, would be the best team of your 4, and by a decent margin

Simple question. Lets say you didnt have Randy Moss. Would you still say the same about the 2007 Patriots? Personally I think hes really the only major difference between this Pats teams and past Pat championship teams. Do you guys believe that 15-0 without Moss would have been possible at all?

 

[BradyManny]

Yeah, I'd agree...it basically boils down to Moss. This team would probably be great without him, but it's in the "best team ever" debate b/c of him. No doubt about it, he makes such a huge difference. With him and Brady, you basically have two MVPs on your team.

 

[SoCalPatsfan90]

I'd say that moss is a difference maker, but even without him, they have legitimate threats in Welker, Stallworth, Brown, Watson, K.Brady...

Would 15-0 be possible... maybe / maybe not. But Moss is here, and we're 15-0 because he commands attention. Thats just not to say he's the ONLY reason we're 15-0...

 

[eom]

w/o moss they might've gone 14-2 in the regular season, and gone on to win the superbowl, so I'd give him credit for helping w/the undefeated part, if it happens, but I'd give a lot of guys credit for that, too.

 

[Brooklyn Nick]

I'd say that moss is a difference maker, but even without him, they have legitimate threats in Welker, Stallworth, Brown, Watson, K.Brady...

Would 15-0 be possible... maybe / maybe not. But Moss is here, and we're 15-0 because he commands attention. Thats just not to say he's the ONLY reason we're 15-0...

I like Welker too, but there is a tricle down effect from Moss's presence, it does help him

I dont think there is a coincidence that the 2 highest scoring offenses of all time both featured Randy Moss (98 vikes, 07 Pats)

 

[Brooklyn Nick]

w/o moss they might've gone 14-2 in the regular season, and gone on to win the superbowl, so I'd give him credit for helping w/the undefeated part, if it happens, but I'd give a lot of guys credit for that, too.

I think they *could* have won a bowl this year without Moss, no doubt. But it would have been far from a forgone conclusion. I dont think they would be any better then the Colts now without Moss. Would be a tossup. With him the Pats have a clear advantage

 

[ALP]

no, i think if moss was NOT here, the pats would not be undefeated...prob would have lost 1 or 2 games more, 3 tops...

thats b/c moss really does help out with how the defenses need to be run, but if moss wasnt here, u would see donte make up for 60% of his production...and the other guys make up about 15%, which woudl average to about 25% production loss...

 

[Seymour93]

If my aunt had balls, then she would be my uncle.

The answer to your question is, yes. Stallworth has shown in Philadelphia and New Orleans that he's a fine #1 WR. Gaffney has been playing the #2 the past couple of weeks and he's doing a good job. Maroney and Watson's numbers would look a lot better right now if there were no Moss.

Even though they're supposed to be old and washed up, no other defense this season has allowed less points than the Patriots. And a lot of the points have come after the game was already settled (see: October 21 @ Miami).

 

[eom]

dude, look at it this way:

how did they do last year w/gabriel, caldwell, and gaffney?
they had a pretty good record, put up some pretty good scores in the second half, beat superbowl darling san diego, whipped up on indy in the first half, and narrowly missed closing the deal in the second half.
and this is w/guys on defense hurt at the end of the year, and others having to play out of position.
go back and look at the indy game and tell me why they lost.

you add welker and stallworth to that team and they win.
in fact, you boot caldwell and add welker and they win.
on top of that, this year's team has their defense back healthy (except colvin...... ), and has added adalius thomas as gravy.

moss is a luxury, not a necessity.

 

[Two Eight]

I'm not sure they could go 15-0 even with Moss if they had to do it all again, there's alot of things that lined up for the Pats to be where they are. But the team was stocked up before getting Moss, it could have happened who knows, Stallworth would have been key. Injuries were a pretty big factor too even with losing Morris and Colvin, Maroney being out several games and Seymour starting the season on PUP it wasn't as bad as injuries that hit most other Pats teams.

Also that 2004 team really kicked ass too, defensively better and Corey was an absolute beast :rocker:

 

[Brooklyn Nick]

dude, look at it this way:

how did they do last year w/gabriel, caldwell, and gaffney?
they had a pretty good record, put up some pretty good scores in the second half, beat superbowl darling san diego, whipped up on indy in the first half, and narrowly missed closing the deal in the second half.

But the 05 team didnt win with Branch, they were coming off 2 years without a ring before this year

While the Pats have been an excellent squad throughout the Brady-Belichick run, I dont think at any point until this season were they hands down clear notches above everyone else. In 01 they needed tons of things to break right. They were better in 03 and 04, but all 3 SB wins involved a lot of close game luck, which you need to win championships, thats not taking anything away from them

But with Moss this team is a juggernaught.

Also when push came to shove in that Colts game, your biggest game of the year, Brady simply locked on Moss and asked #81 to get him out of it, and he did. He took that game over in the 2nd half

 

[eom]

that's only somewhat true on a superficial level.

in that game moss definitely came up bigger than huge, but the passing game benefits a lot from our awesome run game --- credit the o-line for that, and for the incredible pass protection allowing moss time to run routes.
credit the defense for pretty much shutting down teams like dallas and indy in the second half when the game is on the line, and obviously credit brady for getting moss the ball on perfect throws.

I'm glad moss is here, but to lay all this at his feet is a little much.
what kind of record offense was he putting together w/his ripple effect in oakland while the pats were a hair away from superbowl champions w/balls bouncing off caldwell?

 

[Brooklyn Nick]

that's only somewhat true on a superficial level.

in that game moss definitely came up bigger than huge, but the passing game benefits a lot from our awesome run game --- credit the o-line for that, and for the incredible pass protection allowing moss time to run routes.
credit the defense for pretty much shutting down teams like dallas and indy in the second half when the game is on the line, and obviously credit brady for getting moss the ball on perfect throws.

I'm glad moss is here, but to lay all this at his feet is a little much.
what kind of record offense was he putting together w/his ripple effect in oakland while the pats were a hair away from superbowl champions w/balls bouncing off caldwell?

I cant blast him for Oakland, he was hurt and his QB was Andrew Walter. But Moss as a rookie came into the league at 21 and dominated the league. He took a fringe playoff team and made them a team who could have won a SB if Gary Anderson can make a FG. He's made QB like Culpepper and Cunningham look like MVP caliber QBs simply because they could throw a deep ball. I dont think its a coincidence that the 2 top scoring offenses ever had him as the #1 option, and the supporting cast of the other 10 guys were completely different faces, different system and everything

Im not laying all this at his feet, of course not. Pats won 3 rings without him. But to me, without Moss, Pats go from possibly the best team ever to just a team who is among the 3-4 favorites to win the bowl year in year out

 

[eom]

I'll give you this much --- while I think they'd still win the superbowl (no jinx....), I very much doubt there's any way they'd be the record setting offense we've seen, let alone undefeated.
so credit him w/that, at least.

of course, the question remains which is more important --- think I'd be happy w/the superbowl.

 

[RobAllan]

I don't think they'd be undefeated without Moss, I love having him, and he his a HUGE playmaker. That said...

I don't think they'd be undefeated without Brady or Welker either.

So while his impact is huge in the way the offense runs, as far as the shot at a perfect record-- that's got alot to do with everyone.