OT: MangIdiot under fire for benching Pennington

[JoeSixPat]

Forgive me if this was posted already - I looked around and didn't see anything.

I'd be happy to jump on the "Trash MangIdiot" bandwagon in a heartbeat, but if I'm the Jets, and find myself in a lost season, seems to me I'd want to give Clemens plenty of playing time to see if our 2nd round pick from 2006 was a waste or whether we've got a real QB on our hands.

And after the experiment, if I were a Jets fan I'd not be feeling too confident in ANY of my QBs... but I'd also think twice before cutting or trading Pennington.

POSTED 9:05 a.m. EST; LAST UPDATED 9:38 a.m. EST, December 18, 2007

JETS MAKING A MISTAKE WITH CLEMENS?

We're hearing in the wake of the Jets' far-closer-than-expected game against the Patriots a belief in some circles that the Jets are far more effective with veteran Chad Pennington at quarterback than they are with Kellen Clemens, a second-year, second-round draft choice.

"People are questioning the decision to go with Clemens," a league source told us on Monday night.

The thinking is that the Jets are using Clemens because he was selected by G.M. Mike Tannenbaum and coach Eric Mangini and, thus, is "their guy."

If so, it's even more likely that the Jets will try to ship Pennington out of town after the 2008 season.

Pennington is under contract through 2011, and his base salary spikes to $4.8 million next year. If there's going to be a trade, Pennington will most likely have to agree to a new deal with his new team.

The last two games of the 2007 season could be an opportunity for Pennington to catch the attention of a franchise that is looking for a new quarterback come 2008. Clemens sustained a rib injury and a shoulder injury early in Sunday's game against the Patriots.

There's also extremely unconfirmed talk that Clemens has a broken rib and, possibly, a punctured lung. But that, at this point, is pure rumor.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Figures. Most of the people trashing him now are probably the same ones that were *****ing that he held on with Pennington for too long. Even if Pennington starts the whole season, they're still not in playoff contention, and anyone who doesn't realize that is a ******* idiot. That team's problems go FAR beyond quarterback.

 

[Real World]

Pennington isn't a starting QB in this league. At least he wouldn't be on a good team. He can't throw 15 yards downfield. Granted, he's incredibly accurate, and has great anticipation with his throws, but he's not taking anyone to the promise land. The Jets need to play Clemens, cuz Pennington is niether the present, nor the future.

 

[sieglo]

That team's problems go FAR beyond quarterback.

Yeah, the problem's start with the Jets idiot fanbase. They started calling for Pennington's head half way through game one. They even cheered when Pennington got injured and knocked out of the game. It's taken them 14 games to realize that Clemmons is a major downgrade and now they want to blame Mangini? Morons.

 

[maverick4]

Pennington has maybe the weakest arm in the league, but he is way better than Clemens.

I was actually worried after we knocked out Clemens. The game, with Pennington, was a lot closer than it would have been if we hadn't KO'd their starting QB.

Pennington is a winner, a ball control QB who is extremely accurate, doesn't make many mistakes, and is very very smart with the football. These kinds of QB's always end up controlling the clock, making constant progress down the field, and it is the exact kind of play that pisses off high powered offenses like ours.

Pennington is better than at least 10 other starting QB's in this league, hands down.

 

[mgcolby]

In every season that Pennington has started at least 10 games the Jets have made the playoffs.

People that think Pennington is a horrible QB are idiots. The guy has had injuries and they aren't the kind that would allow people to question his "toughness" torn rotator cuff, broken wrist etc..

He might not be able to stretch the field, but neither could Brady in 2001. If the Ravens had Pennington they would be pushing Indy for the 2nd seed right now.

 

[JoeSixPat]

He might not be able to stretch the field, but neither could Brady in 2001.

Any comparison with Brady is way off.

Brady COULD stretch the field in 2001 - though his strength did improve in 2002 and on.... but the coaches simply didn't let him, as the short passes worked quite well.

Part of the reason that the short passes worked well was because DC's had never seen Brady before and didn't want to assume he couldn't beat them deep.

Additionally we had guys like Troy Brown who could pick up yards after the catch and David Patten who was a legitimate deep threat. Combine that with an unknown quantity at QB and DC's will keep some guys deep.

In Pennington's case DC's KNOW he's not going to beat them deep, making his job that much more difficult - and stacking the defense at the line of scrimmage making the RB's job that much more difficult too.

Bottom line - Pennington's an open book and everyone knows how to defend against him effectively.

I still think MangIdiot was actually RIGHT to bench him to see what they had in Clemens. But even a blind squirrel sometimes finds a nut.

 

[patchick]

You want a laugh? Look back at what Florio had to say about the Jets benching Pennington before Clemens played and looked bad. Stuff like: "it's high time for a change at the quarterback position."

Encourage the move when they make it, then scold them for it when it turns sour. Nice work if you can get it.

 

[maverick4]

Any comparison with Brady is way off.

Brady COULD stretch the field in 2001 - though his strength did improve in 2002 and on.... but the coaches simply didn't let him, as the short passes worked quite well.

In Pennington's case DC's KNOW he's not going to beat them deep, making his job that much more difficult - and stacking the defense at the line of scrimmage making the RB's job that much more difficult too.

While it's not an exact comparison, I do think that the same way Brady was a winning QB in 2001, is how Pennington is like, and it works. Pennington is basically Brady circa 2001, without significant improvement since then. And don't forget Pennington always got a few pass plays where his guys took it to the house off of short pass completions or off some sort of glitch.

Anyways, arm strength is severely over-rated. Pocket presence/movement, accuracy, and identifying the high percentage target are what make winning QB's.
Some scholar needs to do a study about this. I swear, even weak armed guys like Pennington are winners in the NFL. The name of the game is ball control, eating time, slowly moving down the field... this is so huge, it screws up the opposing offense and also rests your defense.

 

[maverick4]

In every season that Pennington has started at least 10 games the Jets have made the playoffs.

I didn't know this but I'm not surprised.

Someday some guy will prove that it's all about accuracy (pass%), pocket presence, and intelligence, NOT arm strength.

It's like in baseball before someone realized how huge OBP was. We all knew Wade Boggs was good but we didn't know why. Someday Chad Pennington will be seen as way better than people see him now.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Pennington isn't a starting QB in this league. At least he wouldn't be on a good team. He can't throw 15 yards downfield. Granted, he's incredibly accurate, and has great anticipation with his throws, but he's not taking anyone to the promise land. The Jets need to play Clemens, cuz Pennington is niether the present, nor the future.

put him and on the vikings and they'd be superbowl contenders

 

[OhExaulted1]

I didn't know this but I'm not surprised.

Someday some guy will prove that it's all about accuracy (pass%), pocket presence, and intelligence, NOT arm strength.

It's like in baseball before someone realized how huge OBP was. We all knew Wade Boggs was good but we didn't know why. Someday Chad Pennington will be seen as way better than people see him now.

I think a better analogy would be Greg Maddux. Never overpowered anyone, but always made accurate pitches and kept his team in games.

I agree arm strength is overrated. Jeff George is a prime example of that.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

I would say football IQ is underrated. Mike Vick is an example of that.

 

[Hollywood_Brady]

pennington may have a noodle arm, but at this point in time, pennington is better than clemens in decision making especially under pressure..

 

[Rawky77]

In every season that Pennington has started at least 10 games the Jets have made the playoffs.

People that think Pennington is a horrible QB are idiots. The guy has had injuries and they aren't the kind that would allow people to question his "toughness" torn rotator cuff, broken wrist etc..

He might not be able to stretch the field, but neither could Brady in 2001. If the Ravens had Pennington they would be pushing Indy for the 2nd seed right now.

I agree Pennington is a winner, he has those intangibles every real winner has, there is a place for him as a starter in the NFL, ravens, vikes, SF, panthers, atlanta, and KC to name a but a few.

His problem in NY is the new management, they want their guy who ever that may be.....but trust me if they deal Pennington they will be out of contention to make the playoffs for the foreseeable future.

I do hope they deal him and get him out of our conference and that will lead directly to the RAT Coach's demise and ultimate firing in NY and that would make me very happy indeed.

If they do deal him i do hope he goes to a team and fan base that can support him and wish him success.

 

[Deus Irae]

Pennington
Clemens
Losman
Edwards
Lemon
Beck



That's the 6 quarterbacks that the Patriots face twice a year. That's why New England can be penciled in for winning 6 games in division every year for the near future. Pennington is the only on on that list that's got any real past or future in this league, and his shoulder injuries have made him far less dangerous than he used to be.

 

[scout]

I really don't know why so many Patriot fans abuse Pennington. I'm with you Mav, I wasn't giddy when Clemons went out. How many games have we seen Pennington, noodle arm and all, drive down the field for a possible score. Mangini was an idiot to play the option qb on third down. Chad probably makes that critical third down conversion. For a team with a heavy run offense he would be a good fit.

 

[JoeSixPat]

While it's not an exact comparison, I do think that the same way Brady was a winning QB in 2001, is how Pennington is like, and it works. Pennington is basically Brady circa 2001, without significant improvement since then.

Again, I'd stress, if Brady topped out at his 2001 short pass only routine, that would have likely been the only Super Bowl season.

That works for awhile but once defenses know for certain a QB can't burn them deep, that severely limits what the entire offense can do - including the short game, as defenses will stack guys on the line.

The only similarity to Brady circa 2001 is if Pennington was ever going to win a Super Bowl it would have had to have happend in 2002 before defenses knew what a limited QB they had on their hands.

I would say football IQ is underrated. Mike Vick is an example of that.

I'll give Pennington plenty of credit for his football IQ - no doubt he's a smart guy.

But Bledsoe was a smart QB too, and pretty much everyone recognized his limitations - which ironically, among other things, was his inability to complete the SHORT pass. Oddest thing ever - Bledsoe today could probably zing a 50 yard bullet for a TD - but completing a 4 yard pass for a must have first down?

Don't hold your breath.

There's a short window of opportunity for guys like Pennington, to succeed before DC's figure them out - and Pennington missed his window long ago.

 

[Dragda]

Any comparison with Brady is way off.

Brady COULD stretch the field in 2001 - though his strength did improve in 2002 and on.... but the coaches simply didn't let him, as the short passes worked quite well.

Part of the reason that the short passes worked well was because DC's had never seen Brady before and didn't want to assume he couldn't beat them deep.

Additionally we had guys like Troy Brown who could pick up yards after the catch and David Patten who was a legitimate deep threat. Combine that with an unknown quantity at QB and DC's will keep some guys deep.

In Pennington's case DC's KNOW he's not going to beat them deep, making his job that much more difficult - and stacking the defense at the line of scrimmage making the RB's job that much more difficult too.

Bottom line - Pennington's an open book and everyone knows how to defend against him effectively.

I still think MangIdiot was actually RIGHT to bench him to see what they had in Clemens. But even a blind squirrel sometimes finds a nut.

The OL could barely pass protect. It wasn't brady that couldn't get the ball down the field, it was the OL that was the issue.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Pennington reminds me alot of our former QB Matt Cavanaugh. Great mind and poise but without a real NFL arm. He cannot throw the ball inside the 20 with any effectiveness. Perhaps if they had LT or whomever he could be the QB ... but they don't.

Penington would be a nice backup to have. I would take him all day long over Cassell ... but who knows if he would be content being a backup ... perhaps his future is as a coach .. he has many of the tools to be one.