Scoring a blocked punt

[xmarkd400x]

Does it count as 1 punt for 0 yards?

Does the return yardage factor into it?

 

[xmarkd400x]

Into punt stats??

Yardage does not factor into the punters average. Not sure they even count it as an attempt, but if they do, I assume 0 yards.

Well, if you look at the box score, Chris Hanson had 5 punts but the team had 6 punts. Same deal with the Jets where the team was 1 off from the punter. So, I don't think it counts against the punter, but it does count against the team.

 

[Tunescribe]

Into punt stats??

Yardage does not factor into the punters average. Not sure they even count it as an attempt, but if they do, I assume 0 yards.

It counts as a punt for 0 yards as figured into Hanson's gross yards per attempt. The return yardage counts against his net average.

Geez, you Colts fans don't know much about football ...

 

[xmarkd400x]

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=271216017

NY Jets Punting 
               TOT      YDS     AVG     TB      -20      LG 
B. Graham   3         127     42.3      1        1       47 
Team         4         127     31.8      1        1       47 

New England Punting 
              TOT       YDS     AVG     TB      -20      LG 
C. Hanson  5          214     42.8      1         2      51 
Team        6          214     35.7      1         2      51

214/6 = 35.7 and 127/4 = 31.8

It seems that blocked punt returns are not factored in.

 

[Tunescribe]

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=271216017

NY Jets Punting 
               TOT      YDS     AVG     TB      -20      LG 
B. Graham   3         127     42.3      1        1       47 
Team         4         127     31.8      1        1       47 

New England Punting 
              TOT       YDS     AVG     TB      -20      LG 
C. Hanson  5          214     42.8      1         2      51 
Team        6          214     35.7      1         2      51

214/6 = 35.7 and 127/4 = 31.8

It seems that blocked punt returns are not factored in.

Something is wrong with those stats. Hanson is the only one who punted for us, how can they credit one punt to "team"? They might not distinguish between gross and net average in these particular stats, but what I stated is correct. A blocked punt counts as one punt for zero yards (against gross average) and opponent's recovery/return counts against net average.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

Something is wrong with those stats. Hanson is the only one who punted for us, how can they credit one punt to "team"? They might not distinguish between gross and net average in these particular stats, but what I stated is correct. A blocked punt counts as one punt for zero yards (against gross average) and opponent's recovery/return counts against net average.

I think the punt only counts against the team for its final punt stats, but not the kicker. I think you'd only see five returns if you looked at the jets punt return stats, not 6. Two returns, one out of bounds, one downed, and one TB.

 

[Tunescribe]

I think the punt only counts against the team for its final punt stats, but not the kicker. I think you'd only see five returns if you looked at the jets punt return stats, not 6. Two returns, one out of bounds, one downed, and one TB.

This still does not make sense to me, and I used to do football stats as a sportswriter. There is no such thing as a "team" punting attempt in my book. They must be putting blocked punt/blocked-punt return in a whole different category all its own, which I've never heard of before. You'll notice that the sixth punt credited to "team" dropped the average from 42.8 to 35.7, so the 0 yards were figured into gross average. The block was just as much on Hanson as it was on whoever let the Jets put on a successful rush. If he got the punt off, it still would've been credited to him and not "team." That's a bogus category if you ask me. And the return for the touchdown definitely should've been credited to the Jets' punt-return stats.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

This still does not make sense to me, and I used to do football stats as a sportswriter. There is no such thing as a "team" punting attempt in my book. They must be putting blocked punt/blocked-punt return in a whole different category all its own, which I've never heard of before.

I just think it's a recognition that a punter's entire statistics would be completely lopsided if you nailed him for a bad block or bad snap. Two blocked punts would make the stats completely out of whack viz. the rest of the league. The team punt thing is just an artificial concept to make the total number of plays attempted with the total downs played. The funny part, though, is that a partial block that dribbles past the LOS most definitely does count against the punter as a non-team punt in his stats.

I think statistically you also have to distinguish based on what happened on the punt. If it's recovered by the kicking team but not advanced beyond the line to gain, as happened to the Jets in the game, it's just a turnover on downs via blocked punt.

 

[Tunescribe]

I just think it's a recognition that a punter's entire statistics would be completely lopsided if you nailed him for a bad block or bad snap. Two blocked punts would make the stats completely out of whack viz. the rest of the league. The team punt thing is just an artificial concept to make the total number of plays attempted with the total downs played. The funny part, though, is that a partial block that dribbles past the LOS most definitely does count against the punter as a non-team punt in his stats.

I think statistically you also have to distinguish based on what happened on the punt. If it's recovered by the kicking team but not advanced beyond the line to gain, as happened to the Jets in the game, it's just a turnover on downs via blocked punt.

Yeah, but this goes back to my point of the block hinging primarily on Hanson's bobble rather than Jets players coming in unblocked. Had he not bobbled the snap he would've gotten the kick off. Bad play or good play, it still should be applied to the punter's stats.

 

[godef]

If I'm not mistaken, a punted ball has to reach the line of scrimmage to be officially considered a punt. Thus, a player on the kicking team could pick up a blocked punt and run it for a first down, since they have not given up possession. Ditto on field goal attempts.

This may also account for the statistical anamoly mentioned in this thread: the numbers listed for the punters are actual punts, but the numbers for the team may indicate punt attempts.

 

[xmarkd400x]

Yeah, but this goes back to my point of the block hinging primarily on Hanson's bobble rather than Jets players coming in unblocked. Had he not bobbled the snap he would've gotten the kick off. Bad play or good play, it still should be applied to the punter's stats.

That's what I thought at first, also. However, BB said via cell phone that a protection breakdown was the cause of the blocked punt. He said that Hanson did exactly what he should have done, and that the blocker should not have been in the backfield.

P.S. like my should out to Peter King? "BB via cell phone". It was his interview on EEI, and im pretty sure it was via cell phone. I just happened to hear it on the radio. Oh how half-truths make me seem like more of an insider than I really am.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

Yeah, but this goes back to my point of the block hinging primarily on Hanson's bobble rather than Jets players coming in unblocked. Had he not bobbled the snap he would've gotten the kick off. Bad play or good play, it still should be applied to the punter's stats.

Given your stats background, you'd know better than I, but I think football has made a pretty conscious effort to be completely neutral in scorekeeping and so there are no judgment calls in the football scoring and stat rules. So I guess the question is whether you would want all blocks to go against the punter's stats.

I think I agree that the blocked punt was possibly or even likely the punter's fault on this occasion, but I think that's actually not usually the case. A blocked punt is more often not the punter's fault -- it's usually the center's. If stats are supposed to be a means of comparing players, crediting the block to the punter would tend to give you a very distorted view of his actual ability or performance, in many cases. Two blocks a year would ruin a punter's stats. I think it's a reasonable question, though, about which reasonable minds can differ.

 

[Tunescribe]

That's what I thought at first, also. However, BB said via cell phone that a protection breakdown was the cause of the blocked punt. He said that Hanson did exactly what he should have done, and that the blocker should not have been in the backfield.

P.S. like my should out to Peter King? "BB via cell phone". It was his interview on EEI, and im pretty sure it was via cell phone. I just happened to hear it on the radio. Oh how half-truths make me seem like more of an insider than I really am.

I heard BB address this on WEEI's Big Show yesterday. I think he was cutting Hanson a lot of slack. Hanson's bobble put him in the predicament, not the blocking up front. Yes, he did the "right thing" after bobbling the snap in trying to kick it vs. running with it or just falling down with the ball. My point is that if he handled the snap cleanly, he would've gotten the punt off.

Given your stats background, you'd know better than I, but I think football has made a pretty conscious effort to be completely neutral in scorekeeping and so there are no judgment calls in the football scoring and stat rules. So I guess the question is whether you would want all blocks to go against the punter's stats.

I think I agree that the blocked punt was possibly or even likely the punter's fault on this occasion, but I think that's actually not usually the case. A blocked punt is more often not the punter's fault -- it's usually the center's. If stats are supposed to be a means of comparing players, crediting the block to the punter would tend to give you a very distorted view of his actual ability or performance, in many cases. Two blocks a year would ruin a punter's stats. I think it's a reasonable question, though, about which reasonable minds can differ.

I don't know how one would determine this, but my guess is that just as many blocked punts can be blamed on punter error as on poor blocking up front. Even with the occasional bad snap punters often have time to recover and get the kick off, and if the snap is REALLY bad, the punt usually isn't even attempted (in which case it's scored as a rushing play for minus yards). The most equitable way to handle this is apply all blocks to the punter's stats -- that takes any and all judgment out of the scorekeeping. One or even two blocked punts aren't necessarily going to ruin the gross average of a good punter who makes 50-plus attempts over the course of a season. Blocked punts are pretty rare these days.