Elephant OLB/DE

[spacecrime]

I haven't heard much talk about how we can improve out team with the most excellent draft pick we will get from SF. I know the concensus is that we will trade down, but is it possible that we can get the one player that is almost impossible to find: the 3-4 Elephant OLB/DE?

Does anyone else think that Chris Long will fit this mold? I think he does, but don't know enough about him.

Any thoughts?

 

[jbb9s]

I haven't heard much talk about how we can improve out team with the most excellent draft pick we will get from SF. I know the concensus is that we will trade down, but is it possible that we can get the one player that is almost impossible to find: the 3-4 Elephant OLB/DE?

Does anyone else think that Chris Long will fit this mold? I think he does, but don't know enough about him.

Any thoughts?

As a first year at the UVA in 1998, my roommates volunteered to coach a local C'ville middle school basketball team. Their star player - Chris Long. Just so I can tell this story a million times over the next 10 years, I think the Pats should draft him. And don't forget the Groh connection.

 

[DaBruinz]

Unfortunately, this seems to be a weak draft for DEs, though that can change depending on Juniors and such.

Long does seem to have the experience for the Elephant Position.

I would like to see the Pats get him, but not at #2.. Maybe #5 or so.. .depending on the depth of the draft, of course.

 

[BelichickFan]

Gholston from Ohio State, if he comes out, will likely be that player. He should go in the top ten and could be what you're looking for :

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Extras/2007/positionrptLB.htm

"Gholston can make the defensive coordinator of an odd front salivate. He still looks raw dropping into coverage, but he has shown he has the athleticism to grow more comfortable moving in reverse. He has the size — at 6-4, 260 pounds and a body that looks like it was chiseled out of granite — to hold his ground vs. the run and the explosion off the edge to beat blockers off the ball, as he showed he could do vs. Michigan OLT Jake Long. He can win with power or speed and beat the double-team and could be a quintessential rush linebacker in the pros. He’s a cross between DeMarcus Ware and Shawne Merriman — either of whom, in retrospect, would have been worthy of the first overall pick in the 2005 NFL draft."

 

[jpnoonan]

Gholston appears to be one hell of a pass rusher. However, I have read that he is less than ideal i run support, an area which the Patriots chould place high priority on. Chris Long also figures to be an Elephant OLB/DE type who is a beast against the run. That said, it seems clear that Goulston has all the physical attributes to be able to be a factor in run defense, so who's to say that the Patriots coaching/scheme would not help him develop this talent. If the comparisons to DeMarcus Ware and Merriman are true, then the Pats would do well to take him if he's available. Hopefully we can get one of the two (Long or Gholston) at 4-5 as opposed to 2 as it will save us a considerable amount of cap space.

 

[patsfaninpa]

I haven't heard much talk about how we can improve out team with the most excellent draft pick we will get from SF. I know the concensus is that we will trade down, but is it possible that we can get the one player that is almost impossible to find: the 3-4 Elephant OLB/DE?

Does anyone else think that Chris Long will fit this mold? I think he does, but don't know enough about him.

Any thoughts?

I think that is our greatest need on defense. Thank god for Vrabel. Other than him. We are having difficulty getting to the qb. You can't just find edge pass-rushers. They are at a premium. You can find a veteran ilb. They only play a down or two anyway. I think this is the area we target if we keep Asante. If we lose Asante, there is a gaping hole at cb. I haven't seen a lot of C.Long. We usually don't get ACC games. But, I watched him in the UVA/Va Tech game. He looked good there. I've seen more of Gholston. Not sure if Long has the speed to be an edge pass-rusher. I'm leaning towards Gholston if he comes out. I want to see their bowl games and 40 times though.

 

[DaBruinz]

I think that is our greatest need on defense. Thank god for Vrabel. Other than him. We are having difficulty getting to the qb. You can't just find edge pass-rushers. They are at a premium. You can find a veteran ilb. They only play a down or two anyway. I think this is the area we target if we keep Asante. If we lose Asante, there is a gaping hole at cb. I haven't seen a lot of C.Long. We usually don't get ACC games. But, I watched him in the UVA/Va Tech game. He looked good there. I've seen more of Gholston. Not sure if Long has the speed to be an edge pass-rusher. I'm leaning towards Gholston if he comes out. I want to see their bowl games and 40 times though.

According to his profile on NFLDraftScout.com, Long has 4.7 speed. That's pretty damn good for a 275 DE/OLB.

Also, a lot of it depends on the guy on the other side.

All I know is that its going to be a very interesting off-season. Especially with the status of Bruschi, Seau, Harrison, Gay, and Samuel up in the air.

This could end up being a major rebuilding year for the defense.

Losing both Seau and Bruschi to retirement would cripple the ILB position for the Pats..

 

[dryheat44]

Losing both Seau and Bruschi to retirement would cripple the ILB position for the Pats..

Well, we'd still have Vrabel, Adalius, and Colvin for starters....guys like Woods pending.

We'd just have to find two competent guys to play inside through the draft or FA. Worst-case scenarios are a return to inside for Vrabel, or drafting Glenn Dorsey and playing 4-3 full time.

 

[DaBruinz]

Well, we'd still have Vrabel, Adalius, and Colvin for starters....guys like Woods pending.

We'd just have to find two competent guys to play inside through the draft or FA. Worst-case scenarios are a return to inside for Vrabel, or drafting Glenn Dorsey and playing 4-3 full time.

I don't see the Pats moving in that direction. In fact, they've made it a point to NOT play the 4-3 on a regular basis.

Yes, Vrabel and Thomas could move inside, but that would still leave the Pats 2 LBs short.

 

[dryheat44]

I don't see the Pats moving in that direction. In fact, they've made it a point to NOT play the 4-3 on a regular basis.

I tend to agree. But the only other time they've lost two ILBs in an off-season (Johnson and Bruschi), they probably should have played 4-3 instead of plugging in people who sucked at ILB. I think BB would rather play an effective 4-3 than a sh!tty 3-4.

We're dealing with a pretty drastic scenario here. Fortunately, I doubt Bruschi retires. Hell, Seau's playing so well, he might want to hang around too.

 

[cstjohn17]

I tend to agree. But the only other time they've lost two ILBs in an off-season (Johnson and Bruschi), they probably should have played 4-3 instead of plugging in people who sucked at ILB. I think BB would rather play an effective 4-3 than a sh!tty 3-4.

We're dealing with a pretty drastic scenario here. Fortunately, I doubt Bruschi retires. Hell, Seau's playing so well, he might want to hang around too.

I have wandered to the ledge and back thinking about the 2008 LBs, as of today I am not worried (subject to daily change). It must be the sweet sweet feeling of humlitating the Steelers, that always cheers me up.

As of right now we have 3 out 4 starts. Thomas was far more productive inside than he has been on the outside, I expect to see improvement on his run defense as the season progresses. Also very interested to see Alexander and Woods get some action, even they are even adequate depth then things are not so bad. I just hope we don't pull out any 'secret weapons' in the AFCG like we did with Alexander last year, he takes a lot of grief but the Safeties play in that game was terrible. Speaking of grief, TBC was run out of town on a rail for his play against SD last year, Thomas has looked just as bad the past few games at the exact same position. But I digress.

2008
ROLB - Colvin, Woods
ILB - TBD, Lua
ILB - Thomas, Alexander
LOLB - Vrabel, TBD

I expect Izzo to return but if he plays a single pre-season snap at ILB I will vomit in my mouth. If Seau or Bruschi return which I doubt then they become 1/2 time players, still a need to get some speed in the middle.

If forced to take a top 10 draft pick, I would go OLB/DE before ILB. Even though ILB is a bigger need it is a much cheaper position and if someone is drafted who can get to the QB that is an extremely valuable commodity, names (Gholston, Harvey and maybe Long, lets see how he looks in space). With the right draft pick and veteran pickup the unit could get much younger and faster, although very light on experience.

CB - There looks to be ok talent in rounds 2-4 and no real #10 type CB, anotehr reason to look at OLB/DE early. No DE is worth the #2 pick, if Miami trades out of number 1 so someone can take McFadden the Pats will get a lot less in a trade back scenario.

Larry Izzo summary
Special teams = good
LB = bad

 

[StevePatsFan]

I am 99.9% sure we are drafting a pass rusher with our first pick. I would like to see us trade down, and grab a merriman type player.

This will be Bill's chance to find his Lawrence Taylor, I think he goes for it, if one is available.

 

[dryheat44]

I expect Izzo to return but if he plays a single pre-season snap at ILB I will vomit in my mouth. If Seau or Bruschi return which I doubt then they become 1/2 time players, still a need to get some speed in the middle.

Larry Izzo summary
Special teams = good
LB = bad

Did you notice Izzo was in the goalline package vs. Pittsburgh?

 

[cstjohn17]

Did you notice Izzo was in the goalline package vs. Pittsburgh?

No, mostly when I see him him is getting stiff armed or is 10 yards away from the intended receiver. I am not his biggest fan so hyperbole is used, if he plays special teams and goaline / short yardage then there is a roster spot available for him.

 

[dryheat44]

No, mostly when I see him him is getting stiff armed or is 10 yards away from the intended receiver. I am not his biggest fan so hyperbole is used, if he plays special teams and goaline / short yardage then there is a roster spot available for him.

I don't know what the story is, if he's now part of the goalline package, or if it was special vs. Pittsburgh to go with a faster lineup. I was just as shocked as anybody.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

BB drafting a pass rusher at #2 makes a lot of sense. One of the things missing in our two game funk (Eagles and Ravens) was a dominate pass rush. It was feast of mostly famine for most fo those two games.
Someone on New England like Ware or Merriman would help tremendously.

 

[patsfaninpa]

BB drafting a pass rusher at #2 makes a lot of sense. One of the things missing in our two game funk (Eagles and Ravens) was a dominate pass rush. It was feast of mostly famine for most fo those two games.
Someone on New England like Ware or Merriman would help tremendously.

I'd love to get an edge pass-rusher too. But, if Asante walks. CB becomes priority one. And, maybe have to use a 3rd rounder on one too.

 

[JoePats]

Gholston seriously kicked the crap out of Jake Long in the Michigan/Ohio State game. He looked pretty good to me...I say trade back to the 6-8 slot, pick up a 2, take Gholston, and then go secondary.

 

[rookBoston]

Gholston looks like the OLB in the mix. CLong looks more like the true DE, but I'd love to see if he has the tools to play in coverage on a TE or RB.

I'm not sure why there's a call for pass rushing OLB talent. We have Colvin, Vrabel and Thomas, all at their prime, and three of the very best in the NFL. And Woods looks promising. If you're not seeing the number of sacks that you want out of this defensive front, realize that the pass rushers are responsible, first and foremost, for containing the run and preventing the scramble, then collapsing the pocket, and only then in getting the sack. That's just the scheme.

The real gap is ILB, where Bruschi is getting blocked off running plays way too easy, and Seau is just at the end of his run. Vrabel and Thomas have the smarts and athleticism to play inside, but they are natural on the outside. We need the interior run stopper that we've been calling for, for years. I just dont know who that's going to be. Laurinaitis or Maualuga?

 

[DaBruinz]

Did you notice Izzo was in the goalline package vs. Pittsburgh?

Yeah? Your point? He's always been on the goal-line package.