I want honest opinions of Steelers defense...

[OKSteel]

Hi, Steelers fan here...

I want honest opinion of Steelers defense. I have a lot of respect for
Tom Brady and the Pats offense. I think it is among great ones (I'm not
convinced the GOAT) but definitely an amazing one.

That said, I can see that it is not totally invincible, even before your
Ravens game. I am not here to talk smack. I see a lot of threads, like
this one:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=69663

a lot of posters just belittled our defense without serious analysis.

I only want good football discussion. Why you would think that our D will not
(or will) hang tough with your offense. I am not that homer to think that our
D is great and not without vulnerability.

To me, ranking stats are just part of it. Like the Pats' #1 rank offense can
be slowed down by the Ravens, our #1 D can be shred by Brady and
company also. But you should seriously look why we allowed less than 160
yds passing, even taking into account so called weak schedules etc. (we
faced the Browns and Bengals twice and their offenses aren't anemic).

Of course one can argue that Palmer and Anderson have happy feet or
whatsoever, or you can say they are not Brady. But how would you explain
Brady's low percentage against the Ravens?

My point here is that it too simple and stupid to disrespect the other team
with arsinine arguments like those in the thread above. I just hope for your
sincere opinions. There must be some reasons why the Steelers have the #1
ranking, right? Even if you argue the quality of opponents, how would youc
orrect for that then, and what ranking will it be according to your correction?

I think that Tom Brady and company will make some plays. But without
a serious running threat, the Steelers will just key on your passing game and
sooner and later, your receivers will hear foorsteps and drop passes. Brady
will have less confidence and can have a subpar game.

Indy, Eagles, and Ravens held your offense to 24, 24, and 27 pts. I think we
will not allow quick strike and cheap points, as we have done all year and
the Pats won't score more than 20-24 pts.

Here to a good hard hitting game, but clean, I don't want injuries to anybody.

OKay, I'm out and will listen to you.

 

[makewayhomer]

it's the best defense in the league. I do think the Pats should be able to put up 24-30 points. you named what the other defenses did to us, which is fine, but we had to play on the road in Indy (huge disadvantage) and take away some strange drops in the Ravens game, and we probably get to 30 there as well.

and the Eagles really didn't do a great job - again take away the phantom PI on Moss and we have 31 offensive points instead of 24

I'd put the Steelers more in the 20 point range. I'm taking the points, and see something like 30-20, Pats.

 

[PatsRI]

The thing I'm having trouble with is that there isn't a comparison team to use. They haven't played anyone like Indy or Dallas or GB that I could look at and say "see this is what a good offense did, or this is how the Steelers stopped them". I forget who on the Steelers tried to say Cincy was comparable but come on.

 

[Brady_12]

Of course one can argue that Palmer and Anderson have happy feet or whatsoever, or you can say they are not Brady. But how would you explain Brady's low percentage against the Ravens?

Five drops, including 2 TD passes?
The wind?
The fact that Ravens were holding our receivers all night long? The officials just decided not to call it for the first 3 quarters. I'm sure part of it was pass rush, but the drops are inexcusable.

It comes down to this for me:
The Pats have the #1 offense in the league, Pittsburgh has the #1 defense. The Pats have played two of the elite of the league (Indy and Dallas) -- on the road no less -- and won. Pittsburgh.... well, they haven't played an elite team. Until this week of course. So, who knows? The Steelers may be up to the task but right now I'm feeling pretty confident as a Pats fan.

 

[ljuneau]

It's very difficult to provide a fair opinion of the Steelers' defense. They have yet to play a top 5 offense team: New England, Dallas, Green Bay, Indy, and Phily. Couple that with the fact that you lost to teams that have the #8, 16, and 28 offenses.

 

[DonBlackmon55]

Five drops, including 2 TD passes?
The wind?
The fact that Ravens were holding our receivers all night long? The officials just decided not to call it for the first 3 quarters. I'm sure part of it was pass rush, but the drops are inexcusable.

It comes down to this for me:
The Pats have the #1 offense in the league, Pittsburgh has the #1 defense. The Pats have played two of the elite of the league (Indy and Dallas) -- on the road no less -- and won. Pittsburgh.... well, they haven't played an elite team. Until this week of course. So, who knows? The Steelers may be up to the task but right now I'm feeling pretty confident as a Pats fan.

Pitt #1 Defense gave up in losses to the vaunted
Broncos.....31
Cards.....21
Jets....19

yea....statistically when you shutout Doofins 3-0, it all look great. Wow 3 points on the doofins D. We putup 42 at half on them

This game will be complete annhilation by Pats. Just watch.

-Pats DL vs Pitt OL is complete mismatch (35 Sacks of RodentBurger in 12 games)

 

[makewayhomer]

It's very difficult to provide a fair opinion of the Steelers' defense. They have yet to play a top 5 offense team: New England, Dallas, Green Bay, Indy, and Phily. Couple that with the fact that you lost to teams that have the #8, 16, and 28 offenses.

Cinci is a top 5 offense (#5 in DVOA). Better than Philly. Cleveland is also a top offense, #7 in DVOA.

anyways, you can't just draw an arbitrary line at "top 5" and decide to throw out all other games. of course they are going to do worse against the best teams.

but defenses which dominate mediocre offenses also tend to do ok vs good offenses.

 

[makewayhomer]

Pitt #1 Defense gave up in losses to the vaunted
Broncos.....31
Cards.....21
Jets....19

yea....statistically when you shutout Doofins 3-0, it all look great. Wow 3 points on the doofins D. We putup 42 at half on them

This game will be complete annhilation by Pats. Just watch.

-Pats DL vs Pitt OL is complete mismatch (35 Sacks of RodentBurger in 12 games)

wow they look bad when you don't include the good games they played!

 

[Buchanty]

OK - I'll have a go.

First of all I have the Steeler's D on my fantasy team, so my views are prejudiced by the results over the season. I would say that the Steeler's are a very good defense but not sure they rank #1, which is what the stats indicate. However it has been inconsistent rather than dominating and the points I get for them each week are testimony to their achievements.

I will explore the weak schedule just a little bit because I cant fully agree with your argument that you have met and dealt with good offenses like the Bengals and Browns. These guys are in your division, and consequently you know them and their tendencies better. Both those teams are also playing against the hump of the top dog in the division for what seems like forever. And the hump often has you playing below your capability (for reference see the Jags against the Colts).

What does concern me though is that you have given up wins and yards to non-division and what's worse non-winning teams like the Broncos, Cards and for heaven's sake the Jets. I can only guess that the D is thrown out of composure and struggles to recover, because I cant put all the blame on the O. Maybe the dont play so well away from Heinz field. I would be interested in your thoughts on that one.

Harrison has been pretty impressive all season, but without Polamalu he cant be superman and cover the field. Faneca is the third of the dynamo trio as they all play with a high motor. Farrior seems to have lost something this season (at least comparied to the SB year). However with Polamalu back you could get to the AFCC, beating the Colts twice in the Dome would be hard (if that's the way the seeds fell) but think you could hold the Harrison-less Colts.

 

[xmarkd400x]

Is it possible that the messiness of the HF artificially pads the scoring D stats?

 

[cstjohn17]

I don't watch every Steelers game but the ones I have seen, it is the same old story. Great DLine with Hampton getting a double team on each play, terrific LBs who fly around, very good safety play and solid corners.

Very tough team to run against, I expect the Pats to pick on the corners and spread them out.

 

[ljuneau]

Cinci is a top 5 offense (#5 in DVOA). Better than Philly. Cleveland is also a top offense, #7 in DVOA.

anyways, you can't just draw an arbitrary line at "top 5" and decide to throw out all other games. of course they are going to do worse against the best teams.

but defenses which dominate mediocre offenses also tend to do ok vs good offenses.

Actually, Phily is #5. See http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...OTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1

Using the CHFF Hog Index it's New England, Dallas, Denver, Indy and NY Giants / Tampa Bay. See http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/2_1024_Off._Hog_Index.html

No matter, the Steelers will finally play a top 5 offense, so we'll all be able to have a more defined picture of their defense after Sunday.

 

[Barnsie]

I also expect the Patriots to go with the typical game plan they've used against the Steelers (who are always ranked as a good D each time we face them).

Spread them out so that we can identify the blitz, and then pick apart the secondary. Now I'm not saying the secondary is weak (although it is weaker w/o Troy), but the front seven is stronger than the secondary and, of course, our strength lies in the passing game.

The bigger question, for me, in this matchup is the Steelers O versus our D. If our D can plan better than the previous two games, I expect us to put more than 24 points.

 

[makewayhomer]

Actually, Phily is #5. See http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...OTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1

Using the CHFF Hog Index it's New England, Dallas, Denver, Indy and NY Giants / Tampa Bay. See http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/2_1024_Off._Hog_Index.html

No matter, the Steelers will finally play a top 5 offense, so we'll all be able to have a clear picture of their defense after Sunday.

the Hog index ranks offensive lines, not the entire offense.

and DVOA is far better metric than "Total Yards", which is affected by all kinds of things

 

[ljuneau]

the Hog index ranks offensive lines, not the entire offense.

and DVOA is far better metric than "Total Yards", which is affected by all kinds of things

Cool. I'd like to check it out. Can you provide a link?

Anyway, everything's on paper at this point. Should be an exciting game Sunday.

 

[Grizzafted]

Frankly, in the games I've watched the Steelers' defense hasn't looked particularly great. It's helpful for your stats when you play the NFC West. I thought Cleveland would have won that game in Pittsburgh if not for a few high throws by Derek Anderson, and they looked really bad against NYJ and Denver. I think the Ravens D when motivated is still more intimidating than the Steelers, and I don't anticipate that your defense will hold the Patriots below 28 at he very least. The problem I worry about is our defense, and those aging linebackers covering Heath Miller on crossing routes.

 

[patpatriot]

Well if people want to see what the "Bible" - CHFF has to say about the Pit D have fun:

http://coldhardfootballfacts.com/Ar...ary_status_also_on_line_for_Pittsburgh_D.html

Basically it says they are very good. I think that they are about as good as the Balt D the Pats ran into Monday might. They are not going to give up any easy scores and will be tough to run against.The Pats best strategy is probably to go 5-wide with three step drops to try and keep 3rd downs manageable. That should counteract the Blitz.

I do think that Baltimore has better CBs than Pitt although the Pitt DBs are solid. Losing Polamalu will hurt a lot. Kind of like us losing Rodney.

 

[makewayhomer]

Cool. I'd like to check it out. Can you provide a link?

Anyway, everything's on paper at this point. Should be an exciting game Sunday.

check out football outsiders, they do great work. here are a few links to their total rankings, offense, defense, etc

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teameff.php

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamoff.php
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef.php

 

[JimmyCrackCorn]

Frankly, in the games I've watched the Steelers' defense hasn't looked particularly great. It's helpful for your stats when you play the NFC West. I thought Cleveland would have won that game in Pittsburgh if not for a few high throws by Derek Anderson, and they looked really bad against NYJ and Denver.

There is a reason DA was high on his throws and its pressure. DA is mechanical and needs to step into his throws to be accurate. If you push the pocket on his and he can't step into his throw, you get what you witnessed. Steelers can still be credited with his failure.

I think the Ravens D when motivated is still more intimidating than the Steelers, and I don't anticipate that your defense will hold the Patriots below 28 at he very least. The problem I worry about is our defense, and those aging linebackers covering Heath Miller on crossing routes.

I'd be worried about your LB's on outside runs as well. I'm not concerned iwth our defensive gameplan, but oyur offensive gameplan could be a huge determining factor. we need to spread you guys out and make your slow LB's play in space against our speed. In we try to pound it, we will lose.

 

[GameDay]

I don't know enough details of Steelers games, but it seems many points they gave up were from special teams (KR/punt returns) and turnover? I recalled a fumble return for 6 in the Denver game?

Take those points out and the Steelers D is even better. We have another measure for defense that is based on scoring efficiency and susceptibility to long drives. With respect to these, Steelers are very very good. (I didn't try to rank them). Ranking #1 or #2 aren't mattered. They are meaningless since the capability of an offense or defense is multidimensional. It's like trying ranking people in totality: look, intelligence, personality, charm, integrity, friendliness ...

Let's just say that your Steelers D does look very good (even discount the Miami game) in the few that I saw.

Good luck.

I still think the Pats will put 11, 12 drives on your D, 4 TDs + 2 FGs or 3 TDs +3 FGs.