Dan Haren as an alternative to Santana?

[JoeSixPat]

With some talk out of the winter meetings that Ellsbury might have to be included to get Santana, even while that means holding onto one of our better pitchers out of what's been offered, I'm looking towards other alternatives for pitching trade

Word is Dan Haren out of Oakland might be available - and while his numbers aren't as ace-like as Santana's I think he'd be a good addition and a lot cheaper both player trade and money wise

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=5565

I guess we'll find out soon given the yankees "deadline" on the talks for santana

 

[Mogamedogz]

:rocker: I would rather see them (quietly) go after Eric Bedard. Rumors are circulating that contract extension talks with Baltimore have stalled out.

 

[Real World]

Haren will cost at least as much, and maybe more than Santana, and here's why. Santana is a free agent in 2008, Haren is not. Santana makes $13 million in 2008, Haren makes $4 million. In fact, Haren is signed thru the year 2010. He 's 27 to Santana's 29, and is owed $4 million in 2008, $5.5 in 2009, and $6.75 in 2010. So you control Haren for 3 years, while you only control Santana for 1. Haren's performance, and his extremely affordable contract, means that there will be 10-15 teams that will inquire about him. Santana is only really a possibility 2-3 teams. Teams that trade for Haren are looking at a total cost of about $16 million over 3 years of service. No long term deal at $25 million per.

 

[patriotspride]

:rocker: I would rather see them (quietly) go after Eric Bedard. Rumors are circulating that contract extension talks with Baltimore have stalled out.

i dont think baltimore would trade bedard to a team in there own division but you never know.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Haren will cost at least as much, and maybe more than Santana, and here's why. Santana is a free agent in 2008, Haren is not. Santana makes $13 million in 2008, Haren makes $4 million. In fact, Haren is signed thru the year 2010. He 's 27 to Santana's 29, and is owed $4 million in 2008, $5.5 in 2009, and $6.75 in 2010. So you control Haren for 3 years, while you only control Santana for 1. Haren's performance, and his extremely affordable contract, means that there will be 10-15 teams that will inquire about him. Santana is only really a possibility 2-3 teams. Teams that trade for Haren are looking at a total cost of about $16 million over 3 years of service. No long term deal at $25 million per.

I'm a bit surprised we need to go over this again, but anyone or any team that thinks it's trading for Santana without first having him agree to an extension would be laughed out of baseball forever.

With three years left on Haren's contract, if he's open to a team option past 2010 at a nice salary I'm sure a team would do that along with a trade, but three years isn't so bad, so an extention there isn't a precursor to a trade necessarilly.

And while Haren is indeed more affordable short term, most of the small market small payroll teams that could afford him in the short term won't be to keen to give up developmental players. They depend on those guys to give them a chance.

Teams like the Yankess, Mets and Red Sox can very much "afford" to give up their better developmental players because they know they can buy them back later when they develop. So the Red Sox still wind up being prime contenders for a guy like that too.

 

[Foley]

I'm a bit surprised we need to go over this again, but anyone or any team that thinks it's trading for Santana without first having him agree to an extension would be laughed out of baseball forever.

With three years left on Haren's contract, if he's open to a team option past 2010 at a nice salary I'm sure a team would do that along with a trade, but three years isn't so bad, so an extention there isn't a precursor to a trade necessarilly.

The fact one is a free agent has little to do with the team that trades for them (Since Santana has already made it clear he won't accept the trade without getting an extension), it has to do with the team thats trading them away. The only reason Santana is on the trade block is because hes a free agent at the end of next year. Haren is not a free agent any time soon, so its not in Oaklands best interest to trade him for anything but a very good package. A team with the payroll of Oakland is not going to trade away an all-star calibre SP signed cheaply for 3 more years unless they get a big package in return.

For instance, Lester is not going to be much of a return for Haren as anything but a throw in, since hes an inferior pitcher signed on for only 1-2 more years than Haren. Minnesota has more of a likelihood of trading for him because of Santana's contract.

"If we did do anything," Beane said of the possibility of trading Haren or Blanton, "it would be like someone pushing us off a cliff because it was such a great deal."

Link

 

[Real World]

I'm a bit surprised we need to go over this again, but anyone or any team that thinks it's trading for Santana without first having him agree to an extension would be laughed out of baseball forever.

With three years left on Haren's contract, if he's open to a team option past 2010 at a nice salary I'm sure a team would do that along with a trade, but three years isn't so bad, so an extention there isn't a precursor to a trade necessarilly.

And while Haren is indeed more affordable short term, most of the small market small payroll teams that could afford him in the short term won't be to keen to give up developmental players. They depend on those guys to give them a chance.

Teams like the Yankess, Mets and Red Sox can very much "afford" to give up their better developmental players because they know they can buy them back later when they develop. So the Red Sox still wind up being prime contenders for a guy like that too.

The extension doesn't make Santana any more attractive, in fact, in comparrison to Haren, it makes him less attractive. Who would you rather have as a GM, and owner? Santana for 6-7 years @ $25 million per, or Haren for 3 years at $16 million total? Don't look at this as a fan. You need to look at this from a baseball perspective. Haren is the easy choice. He offers performance, control, and payroll flexibility. The one thing ALL teams can give up is prospects. Whereas the thing they can't is 25%-40% of their payroll to one player.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

You have to be leery of All oakland pitchers, as the size of their park, and the large amount of foul ground, makes their ERAs and such much lower than they shoould be.

 

[Foley]

You have to be leery of All oakland pitchers, as the size of their park, and the large amount of foul ground, makes their ERAs and such much lower than they shoould be.

Splits since joining Oakland:
Home: 3.42ERA, 1.15WHIP
Away: 3.85ERA, 1.26WHIP

Not huge, but considering a great deal of his away games occur at either Angels Stadium or Safeco, he still pitches most of his games in parks conducive to pitching. When you look at his splits in the hitters park he pitches in most frequently now (Ameriquest) and the pitchers park he'd pitch in most frequently if he was traded here (Fenway), the difference is huge:

Haren at Ameriquest: 5.48ERA, 1.74WHIP
Haren vs Rangers at McAfee: 3.81ERA, 1.09WHIP

Haren at Fenway: 4.60ERA, 1.66WHIP
Haren vs Sox at McAfee: 1.84ERA, 0.68WHIP

Small sample size for some, but on a whole hes handled the Sox and the Rangers just fine in McAfee, while having minimal success against them in their home park. This is not to say that Haren would stink in Boston, but expecting him to be substantially better than league average would be a stretch. And we'd need him to be substantially better than league average considering the large number of prospects he'd require in a trade.

 

[VJCPatriot]

It looks like the Yankees have pulled out and the Red Sox are the lone suitors in the Santana deal now. So I think it will get done soon.

Haren will have suitors, but not from the Red Sox. Not after we land Santana.

 

[JoeSixPat]

It looks like the Yankees have pulled out and the Red Sox are the lone suitors in the Santana deal now. So I think it will get done soon.

Haren will have suitors, but not from the Red Sox. Not after we land Santana.

the longer this goes on I think the less "value" the Twins will get for Santana - there was a bell curve in the bidding and I think its coming down now, with some of the baseball talk out there that Santana's longevity is in question with some signs of it showing themselves last season

At this point I'll be fine if the Sox do nothing, and will be fine if they go for Santana, assuming they get a good deal for a guy who's going to cost them a lot in salary to boot - and wouldn't mind if everyone lets Santana sit while they discuss Haren along with the Yankees and other teams.

 

[BelichickFan]

Haren's just an OK guy to me. His ERA improved a lot but his base skills didn't, except for a small K increase, and his ERA took a big jump in the second half. His xERA was nothing out of his career norm - the only sign that he's taken a jump up is that he improved his K rate in the second half. But if I were trading for Haren I'd trade for the (still good) 4 ERA Haren not the 3.07 Haren from last year.

 

[bakes781]

Haren still has a few years at low cost on his deal & therefore the A's are not in a position where the have to deal him. Where as the Twins are.