Should they have kicked onside or OOB? (merged)

[antimennai]

....hoping for an onside kick with the ball in the Raven 35 at the end of the game? If we recovered it, can you imagine all the Raven diapers that would need to be changed?

I know the kickoff is the safe thing to do, but it is only a 5 yard difference and a possible screw you possession.

 

[AzPatsFan]

a question for fans about the rules...

With the ball at the opponents 35 for the kickoff, I was thinking of the old rules. Isn't there a rule that there isa Free kick after a score or a punt?

I. E. Could you dropkick for a field goal from that spot? I recalla teamgettinga punshanked punt deepin the opponents end as time was running out in a half. tehy fair causght the punt and then had a free kick for a fifielf goal;attempt. The free kick could not even be blocked like a FG. there was no rush at all.

I seem to recall some hazy discusion a long time ago. With a placekick of any type, the ball reverts to the opposition, but I thought a dropkick attempt could be done.

No one does it on a normal kickoff because its impossible to dropkick from the usual KO distance, but I'm not sure that you could not attempt a dropkick for3 points when the ball is on the opponents 35.

Anyone know the obscure rules about free kicks and how a droip kick differs froma placement kick with either a tee or a human holder?

 

[BradyToMoss07]

Re: a question for fans about the rules...

Az,

This can't be done on a kickoff. If the ball goes thru the uprights it would just be a touchback.

The other rule about the fair catch is legit. If the receiving team fair catches a ball at the end of a half with no time remaining, there is one untimed down where the receiving team can attemp a FG.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Was anyone else....

I believe I called for the onsides kick in the game thread. If it was a different thread, my apologies.

 

[alamo]

Re: Was anyone else....

My opinion why no onside kick: to have a chance at recovering the kick it has to be kicked diagonally, not straight ahead. But if you kick it diagonally then the chances of it going out of bounds go up dramatically. And then the ball would come back out to the 40, amazingly enough 5 yards backwards of where they were kicking from.

 

[ironwasp]

Re: Was anyone else....

I was thinking about this one, and worrying that if Gost was planning to try to pin them into their 10 yard line for example, would he actually have practiced a little dink kick like that?? But it was about 4.29am by that stage and it was fair to say I was not thinking very clearly. The only sensible option was to hoof the ball into row 57.

 

[SpiderFox53]

Re: Was anyone else....

My opinion why no onside kick: to have a chance at recovering the kick it has to be kicked diagonally, not straight ahead. But if you kick it diagonally then the chances of it going out of bounds go up dramatically. And then the ball would come back out to the 40, amazingly enough 5 yards backwards of where they were kicking from.

The penalty for a kickoff out of bounds is not "the ball goes to the 40". It's either 30 yards from the spot of the kick or where the ball goes out of bounds. So there was no fear of the ball going out to the forty if they try an onside kick.

 

[patchick]

Re: Was anyone else....

The penalty for a kickoff out of bounds is not "the ball goes to the 40". It's either 30 yards from the spot of the kick or where the ball goes out of bounds. So there was no fear of the ball going out to the forty if they try an onside kick.

So then...suppose they purposely kicked it out of bounds, aiming toward the coffin corner? It shouldn't be too hard to kick of OOB more than 15 yards, and the Ravens' choices would be the spot or the 5-yd line (or, if allowed, forcing a re-kick which would run precious time off the clock.)

I guess you'd have to have practiced this to be confident in it, though, and who has time to practice the kicking-off-from-the-opponent's-35 scenario?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: Was anyone else...

Forget the FUTD. The only potential advantage for running the onside kick is that, if recovered, it would end the game.

 

[eric5280]

kickoff mistake?

On the last kick off where they got to kick off at the Ravens' 35 yard, it appears that the correct play would have been to kick the ball out of bounds rather than kick it out of the endzone. Why? Well according to the NFL rulebook, when the ball is kicked out of bounds, it is not necessarily placed on the 40yard line like we normally assume, but rather the rule reads:

"When a kickoff goes out of bounds between the goal lines without being touched by the receiving team, the ball belongs to the receivers 30 yards from the spot of the kick or at the out-of-bounds spot unless the ball went out-of-bounds the first time an onside kick was attempted. In this case, the kicking team is penalized five yards and the ball must be kicked again.

By rule, a ball kicked from the 35 yard line should be placed at the 5 yard line. Am I missing something?

NFL Rules regarding kickoffs

 

[xmarkd400x]

Re: kickoff mistake?

Surprise onside kick!

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: kickoff mistake?

They were talking about this on WEEI. The only thing I'm not sure about is whether a kickoff out of bounds is considered a penalty which the receiving team can decline and make them kick over of whether they have to take it. If it's the latter it's an oversight that Belichick won't let slip by again.

 

[SoCal Bong]

Re: kickoff mistake?

That is great insight and I don't see why that wouldn't apply in this situation. The penalty is designed to give the receiving team good field position relative to the kick-off spot.

Should submit that to Mike Reiss for his next mailbag as he's usually pretty good at researching such topics.

 

[eric5280]

Re: kickoff mistake?

Surprise onside kick!

I was thinking that would normally be a good play in most game situations like that but it would have had some unnecessary risk involved. However, kicking the ball out of bounds would appear to have resulted with the ball placed at the 5 yard line given the rule that the ball is to be placed 30 yards from the spot of the kick (instead of the 40 yard line as it normally is placed with a kickoff from your own 30yard line).

 

[wistahpatsfan]

Re: kickoff mistake?

Problem is the refs might have screwed it up or not know the rule. They would have placed the ball on the 40, as BB is screaming about the rule because he's the only one who knows it, and the Ravens tie it up with a FG.

 

[eric5280]

Re: kickoff mistake?

They were talking about this on WEEI. The only thing I'm not sure about is whether a kickoff out of bounds is considered a penalty which the receiving team can decline and make them kick over of whether they have to take it. If it's the latter it's an oversight that Belichick won't let slip by again.

Yeah that's where I heard it

 

[patchick]

Re: Was anyone else....

So then...suppose they purposely kicked it out of bounds, aiming toward the coffin corner? It shouldn't be too hard to kick of OOB more than 15 yards, and the Ravens' choices would be the spot or the 5-yd line (or, if allowed, forcing a re-kick which would run precious time off the clock.)

I guess you'd have to have practiced this to be confident in it, though, and who has time to practice the kicking-off-from-the-opponent's-35 scenario?

And 5 hours later, this idea is being debated on WEEI. As always, you get it here first!

 

[37Harrison]

Re: kickoff mistake?

Surprise onside kick!

I was thinking the same thing, although a little risky the reward is HUGE!

Gost was kicking from their 35 yard line. During an onside kick the ball has to travel 10 yards before the kicking team can recover. So that would mean the ball would have to cross the 25 yard line. If they recover, they can run out the clock... or run up the score.

If not then the Ravens get the ball at the maximum (assuming they were tackled right away) of their own 25.

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: kickoff mistake?

Surprise onside kick!

I was thinking the same thing, although a little risky the reward is HUGE!

I wouldn't have done it. 45 seconds, 1 timeout, Baltimore against the wind, there was no need to risk it. Had there been 2 minutes and Baltimore had 3 timeouts then I probably would. There was no need to take a chance there IMO.

 

[CTPatsFan]

Re: kickoff mistake?

Hmm. That's certainly the way I read it. I assume that's the way it would be enforced. It's got to be such a rare occurence that I wonder if it's ever happened before?