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patfanken

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..... here are a few thoughts because I have nothing better to do today.

1. Conspiracy theory: I believe that Jaws is without question the best analyst at ESPN. I have to believe that he doesn't actually believe his report about Moss taking off plays. I believe he was forced to go into the filmroom and find a few plays to present as proof to this trumped up accusation. Just another example of ESPN CREATING news rather than just reporting it. And it another in a long line of its piling on the Pats and creating a negative image, so its "good vs evil" story line can continue.

2. THis is the same guy who YESTERDAY told us that because Brady was hit only 4 times out of 59 passes that his OL actually DID do a great job, even though the IMPRESSION was that Dallas had a lot of pressure on him. That was a GOOD analysis. Yet how come the Randy Moss who was on the field for all of those 59 passes, runninng 20-50 yd sprints, with someone banging on him, can't take a couple of plays off? Where is the logic.

3. Every analyst who was a WR, constantly makes the point that you can't play the position WITHOUT taking a few plays off. Don't forget you not only have to sprint DOWN field, about 50% of the time, yuo have run back to the huddle. Don't forget that Moss is on the field virtually everytime the Pats pass the ball. BELIEVE ME, the Pats coaching staff and players AREN'T worried about Randy Moss' effort.

4. Contrary to common wisdom, I am of the firm belief that the Pats should opt to KO, every time they play an AWAY game for the following reasons.

a. At the start of the game the crowd is at its noisiest, which makes it more difficult to execute the offense.
b. The opponent's defense WILL show its new wrinkles, and because of that
the offensive players are more likely to make a mistake early on in the game, and FURTHER inflame the crowd
c. AND morst improtantly, I think its a DISTINCT advantage to get the KO opening the 2nd half. You have seen the what the defense has to offer. The players are now "into" the game. You have had a chance to make any adjustments to the game plan. The crowd is likely to be less noisy. Finally you don't risk the possiblility of having your defense on the field for 2 long drives in a row. A killer for us in the 2006 AFCCG, where the Pats were on the field for a long dirve at the end of the half. A long drive at the start of the half, and ANOTHER long drive after a 3 and out. After that they were toast.

This isn't a critical thing, but I still think its a small edge, every game, but even a bigger one when you are on the road.

5. "bountygate" is a joke. Back in college we had pools on our team to see who would get the first sack, fumble recovery, cause a TO, etc. And that was in the 60's at a division 3 school. :eek: This is a practice that is as old as football and does NO HARM.

I'm beginning to worry about Roger Goodell's overbearing attempt to control EVERY aspect of the game. His over the top approach is actually DAMAGING the game IMHO. Not only did he practice overkill on the Pats during spygate, his Nixon like approach to explaining his actions, not only hurt the Pats, but the league in general. His actions on the bounty gate with the Packers again make people look at the league in a negative manner. Frankly, forgetting about his actions against the Pats, I'm getting tired of his "little dictator" act.

6. Continuing the cospiracy theory: I couldn't BELIEVE the tease on ESPN the other day. "....and later we will talk about how the Patriots might be breaking ANOTHER NFL Policy"

What makes it so mean spirited is that when they actually DO talk about it, their own analysts rightfully laugh at them, yet it was a constant theme on every show they did that day. :mad:

7. I was really worried about the Cowboys BEFORE the game last night, and the first few moments had me REALLY worried. HOWEVER when you think about it, the Cowboys barely beat a team without its top 4 players, who's defense had to change its basic defensive philosophy, lost their QB early in the game, when the had the homefield advantage, AND at least 2 outrageous calls go in their favor.

No it will make for a great media hype session the weeks before the game "should" the Pats and Cowboys make it to the game. However, given a neutral field, I think the game itself will be a 3 score win for the Pats.
 
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Re: Not for nothing but.....

4. Contrary to common wisdom, I am of the firm belief that the Pats should opt to KO, every time they play an AWAY game for the following reasons.

...I think its a DISTINCT advantage to get the KO opening the 2nd half.
In the NFL, you don't have the option to defer until the second half like in college. When you win the toss, you have two options: pick whether to kick or receive, or pick which goal to defend. The team that lost the toss gets these same choices after halftime.

So, if you win the toss and choose to kick, you are essesntially giving away a possession, because the other team will naturally choose to receive at the start of the second half.
 
Re: Not for nothing but.....

In the NFL, you don't have the option to defer until the second half like in college. When you win the toss, you have two options: pick whether to kick or receive, or pick which goal to defend. The team that lost the toss gets these same choices after halftime.

So, if you win the toss and choose to kick, you are essesntially giving away a possession, because the other team will naturally choose to receive at the start of the second half.

Are you sure on that Hok? I can't say for SURE that you CAN defer, but I do think they have an option. Could be wrong. At any rate if you are correct, then I will be rooting for the Pats to lose EVERY opening toss. ;)
 
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Re: Not for nothing but.....

I like your point about getting the kickoff in the second half rather than the first on the road. I'm not worried about the Ravens offense so just kick it to them. OTOH, marching down the field against the Steelers defense first would really put the pressure on. It depends on the strenth of the opponents offense.
 
Re: Not for nothing but.....

Are you sure on that Hok? I can't say for SURE that you CAN defer, but I do think they have an option. Could be wrong.
I am pretty sure.

I agree with you though. I am always happy when the Pats lose the toss and have to kick off, because getting the ball to start the second half is never a bad thing - if you're up, you can extend the lead, and if you're down, you can get back in it.

I wish the NFL would add in a defer option on the coin toss so that there would actually be some strategy involved. As it is now, if you win the toss, you pretty much have to take the ball.
 
Re: Not for nothing but.....

I've always hated that rule. Seems to me the toss-winning team ought to have the option of making their choice in the second half.

In the NFL, you don't have the option to defer until the second half like in college. When you win the toss, you have two options: pick whether to kick or receive, or pick which goal to defend. The team that lost the toss gets these same choices after halftime.

So, if you win the toss and choose to kick, you are essesntially giving away a possession, because the other team will naturally choose to receive at the start of the second half.
 
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Re: Not for nothing but.....

In the NFL, you don't have the option to defer until the second half like in college.

I always thought you could defer, but can't say that I know...
 
Re: Not for nothing but.....

In the NFL, you don't have the option to defer until the second half like in college. When you win the toss, you have two options: pick whether to kick or receive, or pick which goal to defend. The team that lost the toss gets these same choices after halftime.

So, if you win the toss and choose to kick, you are essesntially giving away a possession, because the other team will naturally choose to receive at the start of the second half.

nope, sry to dispell this, but...

the teamt that gets the ball to open the game ALWAYS kicks it off at the half, and the team that kicks it off to start the game ALWAYS gets it when the half starts...

there is no coin toss at the beginning of the second hafl
 
Re: Not for nothing but.....

If you happened to catch any of the sideline shots of Wade's gee, golly, dag gum it reactions when his players screwed up, or his bizarro locker room post game wrap up speech where he asked what we think of our fans, our offense, our defense, our owner, and our coaches after this great win, and then asked for his spokesman "ter-rel" to come forward and take over the pep rally, you would worry even less.

BTW this is the Coin Toss Rule:

1. The toss of coin will take place within three minutes of kickoff in center of field. The toss will be called by the visiting captain. The winner may choose one of two privileges and the loser gets the other:

(a) Receive or kick

(b) Goal his team will defend



2. Immediately prior to the start of the second half, the captains of both teams must inform the officials of their respective choices. The loser of the original coin toss gets first choice.
 
Re: Not for nothing but.....

nope, sry to dispell this, but...

the teamt that gets the ball to open the game ALWAYS kicks it off at the half, and the team that kicks it off to start the game ALWAYS gets it when the half starts...

there is no coin toss at the beginning of the second hafl
When did I say there was a coin toss at the beginning of the second half?

Anyway, I'm right. Here's the pertinent section from the NFL rulebook:

Article 2 Not more than three minutes before the kickoff of the first half, the Referee, in
the presence of both team’s captains (limit of six per team, all of whom must be uni-
formed members of the Active List) shall toss a coin at the center of the field. Prior to
the Referee’s toss, the call of “heads” or “tails” must be made by the captain of the vis-
iting team, or by the captain designated by the Referee if there is no home team. The
winner of the toss must choose one of two privileges, and the loser is given the other.
The two privileges are:
(a) The opportunity to receive the kickoff; or
(b) The choice of goal his team will defend.

Penalty: For failure to comply: Loss of coin-toss option for both halves and over-
time, and loss of 15 yards from the spot of the kickoff for the first half only.


For the second half, the captain who lost the pregame toss is to have the first choice of
the two privileges listed in (a) or (b), unless one of the teams lost its first and second
half options pursuant to 4-2-1. Immediately prior to the start of the second half, the cap-
tains of both teams must inform the Referee of their respective choices.
A captain’s first choice from any alternative privileges listed above is final and not subject
to change.
 
Re: Not for nothing but.....

..... here are a few thoughts because I have nothing better to do today.

1. Conspiracy theory: I believe that Jaws is without question the best analyst at ESPN. I have to believe that he doesn't actually believe his report about Moss taking off plays. I believe he was forced to go into the filmroom and find a few plays to present as proof to this trumped up accusation. Just another example of ESPN CREATING news rather than just reporting it. And it another in a long line of its piling on the Pats and creating a negative image, so its "good vs evil" story line can continue.
I thought the clip he used to exemplify Moss' lack of hustle was ridiculous...

How Jaws presented it:
Faulk lines wide right with a LB in man coverage (drool!). Moss lines up inside him. Moss is supposed to run a skinny post to keep the safety on him, but instead runs a lazy crossing route with Sheldon Brown easily covering him, allowing the safety to get over to the right sideline and break up a bomb to Faulk who easily had a TD after blowing past the LB. If Moss ran his route better, the safety would have had to stay in the middle of the field and would have never broken up that pass to Faulk.

What likely happened:
Faulk probably was the #1 option on the play, but Moss was probably the #2 option. Jaws failed to mention Gaffney's role in this play. Gaffney ran a deep cross from the opposite side of the play, into the area where Faulk ended up. I believe it was he who drew the safety away from the middle of the field towards the right sideline. At the end of the play, Gaffney and Faulk were in the same vicinity so the safety following Gaffney was able to make the play on the ball to Faulk. Gaffney's drawing of the safety away from the middle of the field however opened up the entire middle of the field for Moss; I believe Gaffney was doing this on purpose to give Moss room to run as the #2 option on the play. Unfortunately, Sheldon Brown was molesting Moss the entire way and Moss couldn't shake free (good job on Brown's part, considering he didn't draw a flag), so Brady had to force a throw to Faulk in coverage.

I will give Sean Salisbury credit, for when asked to respond to Jaws' comments, he brushed them aside and even mentioned Gaffney being too close to Faulk on that play.

Regards,
Chris
 
Re: Not for nothing but.....

Has anyone ever seen a game when Team A started the first with the ball and Team B didn't start the second half with the ball?

Or, has anyone ever seen Team A elect to kick off and Team B has the ball to start the second half, as well?
 
Re: Not for nothing but.....

Has anyone ever seen a game when Team A started the first with the ball and Team B didn't start the second half with the ball?

Or, has anyone ever seen Team A elect to kick off and Team B has the ball to start the second half, as well?

While I have no evidence to back me up on this. I do recall one instance a couple of years ago where the weather (wind) was so bad that they actually elected to choose their side at the start of the second half so they would have the wind going with them in the 4th quarter and ended up kicking off on both posessions. But again I couldn't possible tell you what game.
 
Re: Not for nothing but.....

While I have no evidence to back me up on this. I do recall one instance a couple of years ago where the weather (wind) was so bad that they actually elected to choose their side at the start of the second half so they would have the wind going with them in the 4th quarter and ended up kicking off on both posessions. But again I couldn't possible tell you what game.

You are correct, but I too cannot recall WHICH game it was.
 
Re: Not for nothing but.....

its too bad that someone like Jaws needs to do this.

Why didnt' they use their village idiot, Merrill Hoge.....
 
Re: Not for nothing but.....

..... here are a few thoughts because I have nothing better to do today.

1. Conspiracy theory: I believe that Jaws is without question the best analyst at ESPN. I have to believe that he doesn't actually believe his report about Moss taking off plays. I believe he was forced to go into the filmroom and find a few plays to present as proof to this trumped up accusation. Just another example of ESPN CREATING news rather than just reporting it. And it another in a long line of its piling on the Pats and creating a negative image, so its "good vs evil" story line can continue.

1) I also like Jaworski. Greg Cosell and Ray Didinger are two others from NFL Films who are terrific, much better than most of the people on CBS, Fox, HBO, NBC and ESPN.
However, I'm not so sure that Jaws doesn't believe what he says. Now, he may have been assigned to dig up some dirt on the NEP, but what would remain of his integrity if it were learned that he reported something that he himself didn't believe? I just can't buy it.


4. Contrary to common wisdom, I am of the firm belief that the Pats should opt to KO, every time they play an AWAY game for the following reasons.

a. At the start of the game the crowd is at its noisiest, which makes it more difficult to execute the offense.
b. The opponent's defense WILL show its new wrinkles, and because of that
the offensive players are more likely to make a mistake early on in the game, and FURTHER inflame the crowd
c. AND morst improtantly, I think its a DISTINCT advantage to get the KO opening the 2nd half. You have seen the what the defense has to offer. The players are now "into" the game. You have had a chance to make any adjustments to the game plan. The crowd is likely to be less noisy. Finally you don't risk the possiblility of having your defense on the field for 2 long drives in a row. A killer for us in the 2006 AFCCG, where the Pats were on the field for a long dirve at the end of the half. A long drive at the start of the half, and ANOTHER long drive after a 3 and out. After that they were toast.

This isn't a critical thing, but I still think its a small edge, every game, but even a bigger one when you are on the road.

4) Amen, and Halejullah. If a team does not have the option, if it wins the coin toss, of kicking-off to start the 1st half and receiving to start the 2nd half, then I hope that the NEP loses every coin toss, and that the winner always elects to receive the 1st-half KO. To me, this is just like having last at-bats in baseball. One of the reasons the NEP lost the AFCC was because they won the coin toss.

5. "bountygate" is a joke. Back in college we had pools on our team to see who would get the first sack, fumble recovery, cause a TO, etc. And that was in the 60's at a division 3 school. :eek: This is a practice that is as old as football and does NO HARM.

I'm beginning to worry about Roger Goodell's overbearing attempt to control EVERY aspect of the game. His over the top approach is actually DAMAGING the game IMHO. Not only did he practice overkill on the Pats during spygate, his Nixon like approach to explaining his actions, not only hurt the Pats, but the league in general. His actions on the bounty gate with the Packers again make people look at the league in a negative manner. Frankly, forgetting about his actions against the Pats, I'm getting tired of his "little dictator" act.

5) It's obvious that the new kid on the block is trying to make a good impression. Unfortunately, the impression he is making is not good for football. As with any CEO - be it in sports, politics, business, organized crime - who begins to micromanage, he finishes with a finger in every pot, and nothing tastes good.

6. Continuing the cospiracy theory: I couldn't BELIEVE the tease on ESPN the other day. "....and later we will talk about how the Patriots might be breaking ANOTHER NFL Policy"

What makes it so mean spirited is that when they actually DO talk about it, their own analysts rightfully laugh at them, yet it was a constant theme on every show they did that day. :mad:

6) Rocky Graziano once wrote' "Somebody up there likes me." Bill Belichick must think, Somebody down there hates me. We all know who the enemies in the press are; but there is an invisible hand in Bristol that is guiding these anti-BB stories, and is giving them airtime, and webspace. Get used to this treatment, because this agenda is not going away anytime soon.

7. I was really worried about the Cowboys BEFORE the game last night, and the first few moments had me REALLY worried. HOWEVER when you think about it, the Cowboys barely beat a team without its top 4 players, who's defense had to change its basic defensive philosophy, lost their QB early in the game, when the had the homefield advantage, AND at least 2 outrageous calls go in their favor.

No it will make for a great media hype session the weeks before the game "should" the Pats and Cowboys make it to the game. However, given a neutral field, I think the game itself will be a 3 score win for the Pats.

7) Wade sonofabum Phillips disgusts me. I despise that fatass, good ol' boy howdy-doody shtick. The cowpukes' owner/GM, HC, QB and WR are almost as hatable as the dolts' owner, GM, HC and QB. A pox on both their houses.
 
Re: Not for nothing but.....

Nothin' wrong with D3 football there PF...

Oh, and great points, as usual. I used to love deferring.
 
Re: Not for nothing but.....

Are you sure on that Hok? I can't say for SURE that you CAN defer, but I do think they have an option. Could be wrong. At any rate if you are correct, then I will be rooting for the Pats to lose EVERY opening toss. ;)

but have you researched how the pats fare once they get the ball in the 2nd half. i havent but it seems they always end up doing nothing with the ball to start the 2nd half when they are in that situation.
 
I am not sure how accurate is Madden (the vide game) but there at the start of the game you have choices of: kick, recieve or choose which side (which defers the choice of kick or recieve to the other team). If one team chooses kick off the other team will kick off in the second half.
 
Re: Not for nothing but.....

Ken, you know I love ya, but Jaws said Moss "takes off plays" because, well...Moss TAKES OFF PLAYS. It's not a crime, he does on some level have to pace himself, but he also DOES do this and Jaws presented evidence to that effect.

All receivers do, to some degree, and Moss is a culprit - we knew that coming in. He's better than in the past about it, but you can't just run it full out ALL THE TIME, and he also is human and gets frustrated and isn't the most mentally tough guy on the team. The overall package of Moss is clearly worth it, but I don't think Jaws was wrong to do the story he did, and I CERTAINLY don't think he was "forced" to.
 
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