NY Daily News: Nfl scouts believe C. Long can play rush LB

[PonyExpress]

This is the second reference recently I have read to NFL scouts who believe Long can play 3-4 OLB. Cimini claims to have talked to 2 NFL scouts, in addition to Mayock. We'll have to wait and see for the combine. Profootballweekly's Nawrocki says C. Long is a verified 6'3 5/8, 274 lbs. In this article he is listed at 6'3'' 266. My guess is that he has bulked up to 275 to play on the line, but could shed weight, down to a Vrabelesque 265. If the gist of this article is true, and Long can play OLB, he would be my draft pick as of today.

Here is a ranking of the top six prospects (juniors included), a consensus based on interviews with two scouts and various scouting services:

Darren McFadden, RB, Arkansas: If the junior sensation decides to turn pro (why wouldn't he?), he would jump to the top of most draft boards. Yes, the Jets gave $11million in guarantees to Thomas Jones, but it would be hard to pass on an Adrian Peterson clone. "A breathtaking talent," one scout said.
The Dolphins and the Rams have big-time backs - Ronnie Brown, if healthy, and Steven Jackson, respectively - so they could pass on McFadden.

Glenn Dorsey, DT, LSU: He's Dewayne Robertson, except better. Said one NFC scout: "This kid is as good as it gets." Scouts have mixed feelings on whether Dorsey (6-1-1/2, 310) is big enough to play in a 3-4 defense, and Eric Mangini isn't going to divorce his beloved 3-4 to accommodate one player.


Chris Long, DE, Virginia: He is the son of Hall of Famer Howie Long. At 6-3, 266, he is too small to play end in the 3-4, but scouts believe he has the athleticism to be a rush linebacker. Long also has off-the-charts intangibles. Ding, ding, ding! Long will be the Jets' pick in April. Mark it down.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/f...t_love_kellen_clemens_to_pass_on.html?ref=rss

 

[Ishdul]

The article says that the "Jets must love Kellen Clemens to pass on quarterback in NFL Draft". The Jets have holes everywhere except WR and C, including some massive ones at RT and DE and it looks like Vilma, Ellis and Robertson might soon be Ex-Jets. No offense to Ryan (or Brohm or Woodson) but he's the kind of ''not bad'' QB prospect that would help (assuming he even pans out), but not to any great degree. They need a dominant player in this draft and I can't see it being any of the QBs.

And I still think Chris Long is best suited to be a 4-3 DE. He could probably make it as an OLB, but he really just seems like a guy you just put across from a tackle and watch him go to work. You don't want to use a top 5 pick on a guy just to convert him to a new position and see if it works out. The height/weight they mentioned in that article also seems to be a little off from what he's usually listed at, although I've heard that he's listed quite a bit bigger than he really is.

 

[sebman2112]

We're talking about a guy with 4.8 speed right? He needs to improve his speed before he'd be effective as an OLB in NE's system. I don't think he's got the pass coverage ability to be effective as an every down OLB in NE's system either, and I don't know if BB would spend a top 5 pick on someone who might be nothing more than a situational pass rusher, especially when that player sports 4.8 speed...

I'd rather trade down and snag Quentin Groves, who has everything NE wants in an OLB, including elite speed and coverage ability.

 

[PonyExpress]

He needs to improve his speed before he'd be effective as an OLB in NE's system. I don't think he's got the pass coverage ability to be effective as an every down OLB in NE's system either, and I don't know if BB would spend a top 5 pick in someone who might be nothing more than a situational pass rusher.

I'd rather trade down and snag Quentin Groves, who has everything NE wants in an OLBm including elite speed and coverage ability.

This is just preliminary, obviously. But C. Long won't be a situational pass rusher. He can obviously hold the edge, which makes him a 3 down player. Not sure if he has the agility to drop, which the senior bowl/combine will determine, but he'll damn sure work at it. Long plays with such a great motor, is so relentless, if he matches up athletically he reduces the bust factor. But he must meet the standard in the drills, no question, F intangibles in the top 10. BB is so tight with Al Groh he'll know everything there is to know about Long. Granted Groves had the dislocated toes, and was playing a new pos, but he was terrible at LB vs. Georgia. A straggler. His athletic ability didn't show. But you can't tell much from one game, good or bad. I want to know the length of arms, hand size etc on J. Long, plus the agility drills, before being sure he can play Left Tackle. If he's more a RT, no way you draft him that high. I doubt he'll show at the Senior Bowl to protect his draft stock.

 

[PonyExpress]

We're talking about a guy with 4.8 speed right? He needs to improve his speed before he'd be effective as an OLB in NE's system. I don't think he's got the pass coverage ability to be effective as an every down OLB in NE's system either, and I don't know if BB would spend a top 5 pick on someone who might be nothing more than a situational pass rusher, especially when that player sports 4.8 speed...

I'd rather trade down and snag Quentin Groves, who has everything NE wants in an OLB, including elite speed and coverage ability.

I don't believe 40 time is as significant as 10 to 20 yard burst, agility drills and vertical when it comes to 3-4 OLB/DE. If he drops some weight, runs under 4.8, has a 35'' VJ and upper tier agility drills for his size, he'll be fine.

 

[sebman2112]

I don't believe 40 time is as significant as 10 to 20 yard burst, agility drills and vertical when it comes to 3-4 OLB/DE. If he drops some weight, runs under 4.8, has a 35'' VJ and upper tier agility drills for his size, he'll be fine.

I didn't say he couldn't I simply said he'd need to improve his speed before he'd be effective at OLB in NE's system. I'm not even thinking about him at DE, as the Patriots have Seymour and Warren locked up, and I don't believe Long is big enough for the position. From what I've seen his coverage ability will need some work, so that's two things against him playing 3-4 OLB in NE's system. Remember, we're not talking about a 3-4 where he's simply going to pass rush all the time, the Patriots OLB's do have to drop into coverage.

Quentin Groves performance while fighting through dislocated toes isn't something I'd use against him. Heck, his even being out on the field shows how tough the man is, and how much he loves football. I've seen them both play, and Groves seems a much more likely fit at OLB in the Patriots system.

 

[cstjohn17]

We're talking about a guy with 4.8 speed right? He needs to improve his speed before he'd be effective as an OLB in NE's system. I don't think he's got the pass coverage ability to be effective as an every down OLB in NE's system either, and I don't know if BB would spend a top 5 pick on someone who might be nothing more than a situational pass rusher, especially when that player sports 4.8 speed...

I'd rather trade down and snag Quentin Groves, who has everything NE wants in an OLB, including elite speed and coverage ability.

I don't think he can convert, he is likely to get bigger and a little slower. If he weighs 270 and runs a 4.8 then maybe, if he weighs 280 and runs a 4.9 yhen no way.

LOL, I am not trying to be mean but can any Patriot LB break 4.8? Seriously, who is the fastest LB on the team? Vrabel and Colvin ran in the 4.8s and that was 10 years ago.

I think speed is a little overrated, as Ochmed said it is more about functional speed.

Groves - He looks sexy and can fly but in the games I have seen he is not an exactly a 'go getter', I like Gholston a lot more than Groves (or Chris Long).

 

[dryheat44]

I haven't seen either of these guys play, due to being smaller school types, but they look good on paper and should be available Day Two:

Ezra Butler 6-1, 250 4.55 Nevada
Trevor Scott 6-5, 260 4.65 Buffalo

Butler is an OLB for Nevada, Scott would be a conversion project from DE.

Has anybody seen them? Nevada should be in a bowl, so I'll try to watch Butler.

 

[cstjohn17]

I haven't seen either of these guys play, due to being smaller school types, but they look good on paper and should be available Day Two:

Ezra Butler 6-1, 250 4.55 Nevada
Trevor Scott 6-5, 260 4.65 Buffalo

Butler is an OLB for Nevada, Scott would be a conversion project from DE.

Has anybody seen them? Nevada should be in a bowl, so I'll try to watch Butler.

The player I have seen a few times who looks very instinctive is Moffitt from South Florida, he appears to have the size/speed as well. Lehman has looked pretty good, he is more of a downhill type player.

I haven't seen Butler but NFL DraftScout has him listed as a Day 2 pick

Positives: Impressive athlete. Well built for the outside linebacker position. Blessed with classic size and has good timed and football speed. Reads the action well and puts himself in position to make a play on the ball. True strong-side linebacker. Capable of rushing off the edge and playing back in space in pass coverage. Has a variety of moves to disengage from blocks, including using his hands well to break free, a good spin move and simply eluding blockers with his athleticism. Natural pass-rush ability. Good burst off the snap and has the late acceleration to explode into the ballcarrier when opportunities arise. Good change of direction to run with backs and tight ends when in coverage.

Negatives: Level of competition somewhat of a concern as the WAC is hardly the SEC or Big Ten. Tends to rely on his spin move to disengage from blocks and makes too many tackles three to five yards downfield. Despite his athleticism, Butler hasn't yet developed into an instinctive and disruptive enough pass defender. Only four passes broken up over the past two years combined.

 

[sebman2112]

I don't think he can convert, he is likely to get bigger and a little slower. If he weighs 270 and runs a 4.8 then maybe, if he weighs 280 and runs a 4.9 yhen no way.

LOL, I am not trying to be mean but can any Patriot LB break 4.8? Seriously, who is the fastest LB on the team? Vrabel and Colvin ran in the 4.8s and that was 10 years ago.

I think speed is a little overrated, as Ochmed said it is more about functional speed.

Groves - He looks sexy and can fly but in the games I have seen he is not an exactly a 'go getter', I like Gholston a lot more than Groves (or Chris Long).

Colvin only runs a 4.8... really? He lookes faster to me, and I know AD runs a 4.5 easy.

Like I said, it's not just that Long would need to improve his speed, he also needs to improve his coverage ability. I think he'd be most successful at DE, if he were to play DE in a 3-4 than he'd need to gain weight, which could slow him down.

Actually, I think Gholston is the one who some of the fans on here see as a sexy pick because of his size and strength, but I think he's slightly overrated among the members of this site. It seems Ohio State players get slightly overrated in general on this board. The guy has been inconsistant, sometimes he doesn't get off blocks quick enough, he doesn't have the coverage ability, motor, open field tackling, or pursuit of Groves either.

When you watched Groves was he injured? He had a great year in 2006, and when he's been healthy this year he's played well. I think his combination of skills would make a better LB than Gholston's, especially early as I think Gholston will take more time to develope. Let's also not forget what conference Groves plays in.

See, I'm not thinking of Groves simply as an OLB. I think his overall package could translate to his being a hybrid like Adalius.

I also really like Jonathan Goff, but it seems hardly any of the members of this board talk about him. Funny to me, as he's been a very good LB in the SEC, and he's got a nice combo of talent & size. Some scouts even believe Goff could be the best ILB out of the draft class.

 

[PonyExpress]

Colvin only runs a 4.8... really? He lookes faster to me, and I know AD runs a 4.5 easy.

Like I said, it's not just that Long would need to improve his speed, he also needs to improve his coverage ability. I think he'd be most successful at DE, if he were to play DE in a 3-4 than he'd need to gain weight, which could slow him down.

Actually, I think Gholston is the one who some of the fans on here see as a sexy pick because of his size and strength, but I think he's slightly overrated among the members of this site. It seems Ohio State players get slightly overrated in general on this board. The guy has been inconsistant, sometimes he doesn't get off blocks quick enough, he doesn't have the coverage ability, motor, open field tackling, or pursuit of Groves either.

When you watched Groves was he injured? He had a great year in 2006, and when he's been healthy this year he's played well. I think his combination of skills would make a better LB than Gholston's, especially early as I think Gholston will take more time to develope. Let's also not forget what conference Groves plays in.

See, I'm not thinking of Groves simply as an OLB. I think his overall package could translate to his being a hybrid like Adalius.

I also really like Jonathan Goff, but it seems hardly any of the members of this board talk about him. Funny to me, as he's been a very good LB in the SEC, and he's got a nice combo of talent & size. Some scouts even believe Goff could be the best ILB out of the draft class.

Here is some commentary from Nawrocki:

On C. Long:

Long has blossomed into a very good player. He has clearly benefited from being the son of a Hall of Famer (Howie Long), as he shows the hand use and pass-rush moves of a seasoned pro. He’s big and strong and plays with intensity and outstanding effort. He can create pressure with his relentlessness and is very stout vs. the run. He plays disciplined, keeping leverage on the ball and taking care of his responsibilities. He can fit as either a base 4-3 end or a 3-4 defensive end. He may not be a double-digit sack artist at the next level, but he will be a very good, consistent pro in whom teams can feel very comfortable investing millions.

So he seems to agree with you that Long is a down lineman only.

On Groves:

Groves has rare speed in a straight line and will work out like a phenom. However, he has not been healthy this season, missing two games at midseason with a toe injury that has been a hindrance. And even when he has been healthy, he too often picks his spots. He lacks the motor and intensity to ever be great, and his character will come into question.

This seems to correspond to what some others are saying.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Extras/2007/positionrptDL.htm

 

[sebman2112]

Here is some commentary from Nawrocki:

On C. Long:



So he seems to agree with you that Long is a down lineman only.

On Groves:



This seems to correspond to what some others are saying.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Extras/2007/positionrptDL.htm

I haven't heard anything about Groves Character, what's the issue?

I'd actually like to know, since it will help me decide on the guy. Still no mention of Goff, huh?:bricks:

LOL!

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I do not think C Long can play OLB in a 3-4 defense. And I do not see BB taking a player that high that he has to "project" into a different position.
I can see C Long putting on a few more pounds and getting stronger and becoming a J Green type substitute for us. Long is an awesome pass rusher and is type adept at beating college double teams.

 

[sebman2112]

I do not think C Long can play OLB in a 3-4 defense. And I do not see BB taking a player that high that he has to "project" into a different position.
I can see C Long putting on a few more pounds and getting stronger and becoming a J Green type substitute for us. Long is an awesome pass rusher and is type adept at beating college double teams.

This is what I've been thinking as well. If Chris were to gain some weight he could be the next Jarvis Green (in the Patriots 3-4), but he'd have to keep his speed while gaining that weight which isn't assured.

I don't think NE would spend that high of a pick on the position since they already have Seymour, Warren, and Green anyways.