Pondering the future of our LINEBACKER Position

[DefenseRules]

After reading this article in the Globe,

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/11/29/old_boy_network_in_place/
"Old boy network in place"

a couple of things became crystal clear.

1. I will be STUNNED if we draft a linebacker on day 1 of the draft. If we do, this young linebacker would have to be "SPECIAL", and I mean Richard Seymour / Teddy Bruschi / Mike Vrabel "SPECIAL".

2. BB values "EXPERIENCE" above everything else in his linebackers.

We all know this, but I think some of us forget this especially at draft time.
Count me among those who continue to forget. :bricks:

Now having said all of that and keeping that in mind, what do you guys think the Pats will do to improve our Linebackers?

If we win the Super Bowl, Junior Seau and Chad Brown are gone...PERIOD.
It's also possible that Bruschi will follow them into retirement also.

I've also heard a strange comment from the PFW guys that Mike Vrabel might retire as well...I don't believe that for a second, but you never know.

Colvin has a VERY HIGH cap number next year, he will either reconstruct or they will cut him, IMHO.

So it's VERY POSSIBLE that we could lose 3 to 4 linebackers from our current linebacking corp next season.

How do you think BB/Pioli will rebuild that group? I am done looking at the draft. Unless you guys know of an EXTRA SPECIAL Linebacker that the Pats might select with that 1st round pick, I just don't think that we will take a LB that High.

What about free agency or trade? Who is available? Are there a few 30ish linebackers that BB might be interested in?

 

[unoriginal]

I sure hope Chad Brown can cover, cause Colvin was probably the best out in space.

Karlos Dansby is the linebacker to get excited about on the free agent market, but I haven't seen much of him. Boss Bailey from the Lions is an athlete, not a linebacker. Then you a bunch of riff-raff. Kawika Mitchell has been passed on before, Simoneau doesn't have a position in the 3-4, and so on.

Then again, if someone like Barry Gardner can come in and do decently, they might be able to find one or two guys next year to fill in.

I really hope Eric Alexander is ready to play as a coverage backer, because we are getting thin in that middle.

 

[RussFrancis]

Considering the tenative situations of many of those players you mentioned entering '08, I dont see how we CANT draft a LB on the 1st day next year. It may not be in the 1st round, but we've got 2 3rd rounders iirc, one is Oakland's which is early 3rd, so one of those picks is going to be a LB. Not a doubt in my mind. It doesnt make sense to bring in high priced FAs every single year and pay them all 7 or 8 million a year. And that's what a guy like Dansby would demand.

A couple of years ago, when we drafted Maroney and Chad Jackson with our first 2 picks, I remember being shocked. Never thought Id see that happen. But it did. Ive learned to never say never with how these guys draft. Anything's possible. But a 1st day LB next year is not just likely, imo. Its almost a lock.

 

[PatsRI]

For this year don't be surprised if Rodney isn't playing more of a LB/S hybrid like he did against Dallas Clark and Indy.

 

[cstjohn17]

I think they lose 2.5 LBs, Seau and Brown. Bruschi comes back but shouldn't be considered more than a situational player. I also think Colvin stays.

The FA market stinks, so I think the will draft an ILB and OLB plus sign a veteran. I disagree about the special part, a LB in round 1 would have to be special. A LB is rounds 2 & 3 would just have to be good.

My peek into free agency

This LB thing is driving me crazy. By not drafting any LBs we have put the heart of the defense in a tough spot next year. Keeping Rogers would have helped the cause, I don't think he was ever going to be a starter but could provide TBC quality backup (which wasn't that bad).

2008 LB Picture
ROLB - Colvin, Woods - no real problems here
RILB - VETERAN FA, Bruschi
LILB - Thomas, Lua, DRAFT PICK
LOLB - Vrabel, DRAFT PICK
Assessment
Colvin - Very solid player in the peak of his career, no issues with him at all.
Woods - Appears to be an improving adequate backup, time will tell.
Thomas - Good player, not sure I want him at ILB but so far I like what I see.
Alexander - Improving player, not sure I want him as the number 1 starter
Vrabel - Trending down, it will be interesting to see if he bounces back with more time at OLB.

Lua - Has shown some potential, it would be a disaster to pencil him in as the starter next year.

Wildcards - Bruschi - I think he returns for P/T duty.

Forecast - very hazy
Day 1 - ILB\OLB is drafted, doesn't start but provides some versatility and backup ability
Aging veteran - Who knows maybe Big Willie is brought back from the dead


Potential FAs - A ragtail bunch to be sure, outside of Haggins, Hobson and Dansby none of them offer starting ability.
Name Team Pos DOB Age Height Weight Comments Link
Victor Hobson Jets ILB 2/3/1980 27.6 6'0 252 Knows system http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/pla...=910&sport=NFL
Clark Haggins Steelers OLB 1/10/1977 30.6 6'4 243 Pure OLB http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/pla...=689&sport=NFL
Chaun Thompson Browns ILB 5/22/1980 27.3 6'2 249 Hardly starting quality http://www.rotoworld.com/content/pla...rt=NFL&id=2591
Boss Bailey Lions ILB 10/14/1979 27.9 6'3 235 Small, no 3-4 http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/pla...1884&sport=NFL
Dontarrious Thomas Vikings ILB 9/2/1980 27.0 6'2 241 Small, no 3-4 http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/pla...2791&sport=NFL
Karlos Dansby Cardinals ILB/OLB 11/3/1981 25.8 6'4 240 May be expensive http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/pla...2663&sport=NFL
Darryl Blackstock Cardinals ILB 5/30/1983 24.3 6'3 240 RFA in 08 http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/pla...3302&sport=NFL
Calvin Pace Cardinals OLB/ILB 10/28/1980 26.9 6'4 270 Seems like more of an OLB http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/pla...2054&sport=NFL
Niko Koutouvides Seahawks ILB 3/25/1981 26.4 6'2 244 special teams http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/pla...1731&sport=NFL
Brandon Chillar Rams ILB 10/21/1982 24.9 6'3 242 Hardly starting quality http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/pla...1630&sport=NFL

 

[BrianAZ]

With BB...it appears that to play linebacker for him, you need to possess special characteristics...notably, experience, flexibility, and the ability to think quickly in dynamic situations. All of his current starters, with the exception of Bruschi, is a free agent acquisition. He doesn't draft linebackers because he can't project any young players to possess the necessary qualities.

He will never bring in a LB just to bring one in, as last year should prove..as he went almost into the season without a full set of linebackers.

It's clearly a demanding position to play...look for him to continue to stock the position with free agents.

 

[DefenseRules]

Thanks guys. Good Answers.

But how about the draft? Have any young Linebackers in the college ranks stood out this year? I haven't had time to pay attention to the College games this year, I had to change my schedule around at work.
I always like to pay attention to Defensive Players that may come out in the draft.

For those of you that have had a chance to watch, has anyone stood out?

 

[ATippett56]

If he declares early, Ohio State linebacker James Laurinaitis would look good in a New England Patriots uniform.

 

[Flying Fungi]

Wait...what? Vrabel trending down??

 

[Bertil]

I'd like to see Pierre Woods given an opportunity to step up his game. He looked pretty good in pass rush mode from what I've seen in limited time. How he holds up at the point of attack and how he plays in space are complete unknowns. He wouldn't be the first UDFA to have to fill a role due to injury. Maybe he can step up like Blue did in '04.

 

[cstjohn17]

Wait...what? Vrabel trending down??

I wrote that before the season started, nailed another one! Vrabel is my favorite current Patriot and I glad he is doing so well.

As usual my predictions are deadly accurate, let me lnow if you need any stock tips...

 

[captain stone]

I think they lose 2.5 LBs, Seau and Brown. Bruschi comes back but shouldn't be considered more than a situational player. I also think Colvin stays.

The FA market stinks, so I think the will draft an ILB and OLB plus sign a veteran. I disagree about the special part, a LB in round 1 would have to be special. A LB is rounds 2 & 3 would just have to be good.

My peek into free agency

This LB thing is driving me crazy. By not drafting any LBs we have put the heart of the defense in a tough spot next year. Keeping Rogers would have helped the cause, I don't think he was ever going to be a starter but could provide TBC quality backup (which wasn't that bad).

2008 LB Picture
ROLB - Colvin, Woods - no real problems here
RILB - VETERAN FA, Bruschi
LILB - Thomas, Lua, DRAFT PICK
LOLB - Vrabel, DRAFT PICK
Assessment
Colvin - Very solid player in the peak of his career, no issues with him at all.
Woods - Appears to be an improving adequate backup, time will tell.
Thomas - Good player, not sure I want him at ILB but so far I like what I see.
Alexander - Improving player, not sure I want him as the number 1 starter
Vrabel - Trending down, it will be interesting to see if he bounces back with more time at OLB.

Lua - Has shown some potential, it would be a disaster to pencil him in as the starter next year.

Wildcards - Bruschi - I think he returns for P/T duty.

Forecast - very hazy
Day 1 - ILB\OLB is drafted, doesn't start but provides some versatility and backup ability
Aging veteran - Who knows maybe Big Willie is brought back from the dead


Potential FAs - A ragtail bunch to be sure, outside of Haggins, Hobson and Dansby none of them offer starting ability.
Name Team Pos DOB Age Height Weight Comments Link
Victor Hobson Jets ILB 2/3/1980 27.6 6'0 252 Knows system http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/pla...=910&sport=NFL
Clark Haggins Steelers OLB 1/10/1977 30.6 6'4 243 Pure OLB http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/pla...=689&sport=NFL
Chaun Thompson Browns ILB 5/22/1980 27.3 6'2 249 Hardly starting quality http://www.rotoworld.com/content/pla...rt=NFL&id=2591
Boss Bailey Lions ILB 10/14/1979 27.9 6'3 235 Small, no 3-4 http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/pla...1884&sport=NFL
Dontarrious Thomas Vikings ILB 9/2/1980 27.0 6'2 241 Small, no 3-4 http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/pla...2791&sport=NFL
Karlos Dansby Cardinals ILB/OLB 11/3/1981 25.8 6'4 240 May be expensive http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/pla...2663&sport=NFL
Darryl Blackstock Cardinals ILB 5/30/1983 24.3 6'3 240 RFA in 08 http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/pla...3302&sport=NFL
Calvin Pace Cardinals OLB/ILB 10/28/1980 26.9 6'4 270 Seems like more of an OLB http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/pla...2054&sport=NFL
Niko Koutouvides Seahawks ILB 3/25/1981 26.4 6'2 244 special teams http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/pla...1731&sport=NFL
Brandon Chillar Rams ILB 10/21/1982 24.9 6'3 242 Hardly starting quality http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/pla...1630&sport=NFL

Good post, John.

According to KFFL, Bruschi and Vrabel are also UFAs.

http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=LB&y=2008

Are you sure about Haggins, Hobson and Thompson? Their names aren't listed with the other '08 FAs.

I don't think that Dontarrius Thomas is too small for ILB, at least not WILB.

Teddy Lehman and Raonall Smith are two other names to consider.

 

[emoney_33]

Considering the tenative situations of many of those players you mentioned entering '08, I dont see how we CANT draft a LB on the 1st day next year. It may not be in the 1st round, but we've got 2 3rd rounders iirc, one is Oakland's which is early 3rd, so one of those picks is going to be a LB. Not a doubt in my mind. It doesnt make sense to bring in high priced FAs every single year and pay them all 7 or 8 million a year. And that's what a guy like Dansby would demand.

A couple of years ago, when we drafted Maroney and Chad Jackson with our first 2 picks, I remember being shocked. Never thought Id see that happen. But it did. Ive learned to never say never with how these guys draft. Anything's possible. But a 1st day LB next year is not just likely, imo. Its almost a lock.

Even if we draft a linebacker, he won't be effective or see much time on the field for 3-4 years in our system. College linebackers don't really have the size to play in the 3-4, and the experience/intelligence required to be effective in this system isn't going to come from a rookie.

 

[Jimke]

In eight years Bill Belichick has not drafted a linebacker higher

than the fifth round. I do not expect him to do so in 2008. He

obviously prefers to sign a veteran free agent. Unfortunately,

very few teams play a 3-4 defense.

 

[RussFrancis]

Even if we draft a linebacker, he won't be effective or see much time on the field for 3-4 years in our system. College linebackers don't really have the size to play in the 3-4, and the experience/intelligence required to be effective in this system isn't going to come from a rookie.

3 or 4 years? Geez, what do we think Belichick is teaching in his D schemes...advanced astrological physics? New precedent is set all the time. We'd never gone out and aggressively pursued a player like Moss before. Or who'da thought we'd given up a few picks for a small slot receiver. I dont doubt no rookie LB would be prepared to start in the system. But Im sure there are unique players out there available in the draft with the intelligence and skill set to pick up the system by year 2. It would obviously be rare. But I cant write it off just because it hasnt happened. But 3 or 4 years? Im sure a smart young player could pick it up quicker than that. Imagine a player like the 'Niners' Patrick Willis playing ILB on this team. that kid's already a Pro Bowler. You honestly dont think that kid would be good enough to be ready by year 2? he was drafted 11th last year. The rare players are there. NE has just chosen to load up on young, big stud linemen with most of those early picks. I have no doubt if they were to draft the LB equivalent of Richard Seymour and received Belichick coaching, he'd be an All-Pro.

 

[cstjohn17]

Good post, John.

According to KFFL, Bruschi and Vrabel are also UFAs.

http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=LB&y=2008

Are you sure about Haggins, Hobson and Thompson? Their names aren't listed with the other '08 FAs.

I don't think that Dontarrius Thomas is too small for ILB, at least not WILB.

Teddy Lehman and Raonall Smith are two other names to consider.

KFFL is wrong and I am right... well maybe not, but I am pretty sure that Vrabel is not an UFA until after the 2008 season (per Miguel who I trust above all others).

I also trust RotoWorld above must internet sites, they list these guys as FAs.
Victor Hobson Jets ILB 2/3/1980 27.6 6'0 252 Knows system http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/pla...=910&sport=NFL
Clark Haggins Steelers OLB 1/10/1977 30.6 6'4 243 Pure OLB http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/pla...=689&sport=NFL
Chaun Thompson Browns ILB 5/22/1980 27.3 6'2 249 Hardly starting quality http://www.rotoworld.com/content/pla...rt=NFL&id=2591

I have been wrong for 5 years and won't stop now, the Patriots will draft a LB and a CB in the first 3 rounds of the 08 draft! (ok, prepare for OG, Punter and QB)

 

[RayClay]

After reading this article in the Globe,


a couple of things became crystal clear.

1. I will be STUNNED if we draft a linebacker on day 1 of the draft. If we do, this young linebacker would have to be "SPECIAL", and I mean Richard Seymour / Teddy Bruschi / Mike Vrabel "SPECIAL".

2. BB values "EXPERIENCE" above everything else in his linebackers.

We all know this, but I think some of us forget this especially at draft time.
Count me among those who continue to forget. :bricks:

Now having said all of that and keeping that in mind, what do you guys think the Pats will do to improve our Linebackers?

If we win the Super Bowl, Junior Seau and Chad Brown are gone...PERIOD.
It's also possible that Bruschi will follow them into retirement also.

I've also heard a strange comment from the PFW guys that Mike Vrabel might retire as well...I don't believe that for a second, but you never know.

Colvin has a VERY HIGH cap number next year, he will either reconstruct or they will cut him, IMHO.

So it's VERY POSSIBLE that we could lose 3 to 4 linebackers from our current linebacking corp next season.

How do you think BB/Pioli will rebuild that group? I am done looking at the draft. Unless you guys know of an EXTRA SPECIAL Linebacker that the Pats might select with that 1st round pick, I just don't think that we will take a LB that High.

What about free agency or trade? Who is available? Are there a few 30ish linebackers that BB might be interested in?

In the many years BB worked for Parcells, he secretly conducted cloning experiments in his spare time.

Pepper Johnson and Lawrence Taylor II are almost ready with Carl Banks Jr. soon to follow.

Young McGoo and Bruschi are still a few years away.

 

[Fencer]

Vrabel - Trending down, it will be interesting to see if he bounces back with more time at OLB.

Yeah. I'll also be interested to see whether the Red Sox recover from their slump and make some noise in the postseason ...

C'mon, man. The Philly game notwithstanding, Vrabel's doing great this season.

 

[RayClay]

My unfortunate prediction is we will end up sticking a couple green rookies or JAGS into the lineup and the will stink because we didn't develop LBs years ago when we had a chance.

Of course I hope I'm wrong.

 

[emoney_33]

Yeah. I'll also be interested to see whether the Red Sox recover from their slump and make some noise in the postseason ...

C'mon, man. The Philly game notwithstanding, Vrabel's doing great this season.

He's the one constant that I almost never see out of position or have a brainfart, aside from that whole pushing rodney over on the Addai catch and run.


Those hoping for that special player in the first round, don't hold your breath. It's not easy to find a college player capable of playing the 3-4 LB. Even a "special" player may not make an impact for a couple of years.