OK, how would you try and stop the Pats?

[makewayhomer]

Why not do what Brady said the Colts did that caused the Patriots offense lots of problems?

The Colts had a good pash rush. They committed to the rush. /QUOTE]

b/c it's nearly impossible to do. if you were going to build a defense to stop the Pats, I think it would actually look a lot like the Colts. they have 2 great ends to pressure the QB, and can generate a pass rush with 4. then drop a bunch of fast, good cover guys into coverage.

this worked really well for 3 quarters, we had done very little. but then they tired and we made some adjustments.

the Giants are another team who can generate a pass rush with 4 with their "4 Aces package".

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Who said it was 'easy' to do?
You know there IS a reason the Pats are undefeated.

 

[JackPMiller]

Mess them up. If the Pats are playing the Jets in NY, Make them believe the game is in Oakland somehow.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Mess them up. If the Pats are playing the Jets in NY, Make them believe the game is in Oakland somehow.

I just hope that Tangini is not reading this and geting ideas. With Goodell a Jets lover, it wouldn't be surprising to see the venue changed and 'mistakenly' the Pats never informed untill early game day. Brilliant, Jack my man!

 

[DaBruinz]

Most of those stats are garbage time running stats. Or when we are up by a large margin. It should concern you. This team has not ran the ball as the main offensive focus at all. Which is fine. We should stick with what is working.

When the weather gets bad we will see how it goes.

Could you please PROVE that most of those stats are garbage time stats? Or are you just spouting off hoping no one calls you on it? How about I help you out.. I'll give you the LINKS and you just have to break down further the 2nd half yards into what was garbage time and what wasn't.

http://www.patriots.com/schedule/

Game 1 - NY JETS http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/29202/NYJ_Gamebook.pdf

1st half Rushing - 65 yds 2nd half rushing - 69

Game 2 - Chargers http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/29225/NE_Gamebook.pdf

1st half rushing - 45 yards 2nd half rushing - 100 yards

Game 3 - Bills
http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/29231/NE_Gamebook.pdf

1st half rushing - 108 yards 2nd half rushing - 69 yards rushing

Game 4 - Bengals
http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/29256/CIN_Gamebook.pdf

1st half rushing - 97 yards 2nd half rushing - 76 yards rushing


game 5 - Browns
http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/29259/NE_Gamebook.pdf

1st half rushing - 65 yards 2nd half rushing - 82 yards rushing


Game 6 - Cowboys
http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/29280/DAL_Gamebook.pdf

1st half rushing - 14 yards 2nd half rushing - 61 yards rushing


Game 7 - Dolphins
http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/29288/MIA_Gamebook.pdf

1st half rushing - 55 yards 2nd half rushing - 29 yards rushing


Game 8- Redskins
http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/29308/NE_Gamebook.pdf

1st half rushing - 81 yards 2nd half rushing - 71 yards rushing


Game 9 - Colts
http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/29321/IND_Gamebook.pdf

1st half rushing - 65 yards 2nd half rushing - 40 yards rushing


Game 10 - Bills
http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/29341/BUF_Gamebook.pdf

1st half rushing - 29 yards 2nd half rushing - 98 yards rushing

1st half rushing totals: 624 yards
2nd half rushing totals: 695 yards

I would say that the likelihood that all but 71 of the yards in the 2nd half were in garbage time is remote. That would make your premise that most of the rushing yards were gained in garbage time false.

I look forward to your explanation.

 

[DaBruinz]

How are they garbage time stats? Do you have a breakdown, or are you guessing at that?
What is our yards per rush in the first half vs the 2nd? Behind or ahead by 14 or less vs ahead by 14+?

This team has not TRIED TO run the ball as the main offensive focus. That is not a negative. We have run the ball very effectively. We are on the way to being the highest scoring offense ever. To say we should be concerned about the 5th ranked running game, because you want us to be, with nothing to back it up, is lame.

Based on what I looked up, AJ, Danny88 was just guessing. While there were more yards run for in the 2nd half of games (624 to 695) I doubt that there were only 71 yards gained in "non garbage time" of 2nd halfs of games. However, I am looking forward to Danny88's reply..

 

[DaBruinz]

Lame huh? Ok Einstein. Tell me what the pats do if faulk is hurt , maroney is banged up and its snowing like a bastard vs the colts?

If you dont think we have a slight concern with the run game you are to much of a homer to see why anyway. The pats running game is one injury away from being ultra thin. Maroney has proven to be inconsistant and injury prone this year. If faulk goes down there are issues.

They run Heath Evans and Kyle Eckel. 2 big RBS who may only get 3 yards and a cloud of dust early, but will surely wear down a defense later in the game.

BTW, What would the Colts be doing? They rely on the Passing game too, you know.

OH, and did you actually watch the SNOW BOWL? I did. Brady was still PASSING the ball.

You keep making these half-arsed statements with little proof to support you. Yes, we all know that there are issues if Faulk goes down. Many of us stated that PRIOR to the season starting when the Pats didn't have Eckel on the squad.

However, both Evans and Eckel have been running better of late.

So, you go ahead and give yourself a heartattack by playing the WHAT IF game until you are blue in the face. But if you are going to do it, at least get your facts in order.

 

[bakes781]

BB made mention of this on WEEI this week that the snow is less a factor on the passing game compared to wind. In fact it's probably easier. As he pointed out it's harder to get a pass rush in the snow & the CBs would have a harder time making cuts in the snow.

 

[makewayhomer]

BB made mention of this on WEEI this week that the snow is less a factor on the passing game compared to wind. In fact it's probably easier. As he pointed out it's harder to get a pass rush in the snow & the CBs would have a harder time making cuts in the snow.

yeah I heard this. though this is mostly b/c of the effect that rain & snow have on grass, as opposed to field turf (imo). I mean wet turf is worse than regular turf, but a muddy/wet (formerly grass) field is way way way way worse than a dry grass field

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

BB made mention of this on WEEI this week that the snow is less a factor on the passing game compared to wind. In fact it's probably easier. As he pointed out it's harder to get a pass rush in the snow & the CBs would have a harder time making cuts in the snow.

Well said. I wish more 'Pats fans' would pay attention to what BB says. Of course, he's fallable but at least use his position as a reference point and then show why he's wrong.
Fans concerns about the running game are valid in very windy conditions. But I say that Eckle and Evans are adequate bangers; our offense could use them if Maroney's not good to go on a windy Dec-Jan game day. Faulk woud be a great change of pace RB as always.

 

[patfanken]

First of all you cannot just to one thing and stop this offense schematically. However here is a brief summary of what I'd do if I faced the Pats 3 WR set, with a TE and Single RB.

1. Ditka is right. You take your physical safeties and "invert" them. Put them up on the 2 WRs and have them play a tough man to man in the short zones. You have your athletic CBs covering the 2 halfs of the field deep.

2. On the the LOS you play a 4 man front with 2 LBs (similar to what the Pats played against the Colts) and dare the offense to run the ball. This assumes you have a very good DL and LBs who can both cover and play the run.

3. You put a CB or Saftey on Welker in the slot and double him with the LB to Welker's side. In other words the Saftey plays a tough physical man to man favoring the outside cuts, and the LB looks for him on the inside cuts.

Its certainly not perfect, and has obvious holes as most defenses do, but you force the Pats to throw to their TEs and RBs rather their WRs. You force them to run the ball, rather than throw. You have to put pressure on the QB with 4 man rushes. You have to disguise this look. Make Brady look for his 4th and 5th options

In conjunction with this, you mix it up with some 5 man under coverages, which kills the short passing game the Pats love so much, and some 4 man unders with 3 over, to kill the long placing game.

You have to get pressure with just 4 men rushing though changing up which 4 you rush can bring dividends

Hey I didn't say it would stop the pats, but it would change the way they move the ball down the field, and perhaps slow them down. Making them make long 12+ play drives. Drives that could break because of errors and penalties.

JMHO

 

[Barnsie]

I agree that our running game is pretty good, but you have to admit that our passing game is WAY better. I believe that getting pressure to Brady is key, but if you can't do that with 3-4 guys, then you will just expose yourself. I would try something really exotic and then make adjustments based on what happens.

Here is what I would start with: 2 d-line, 3 LBs, 6 DBs, two of which double Moss on every play. Make the Patriots run the ball to see how effective it will be. Start to make changes to this scheme based on results in the running game. If the runs aren't for HUGE gains, I'd stay pretty much with the same scheme. If nothing else, this makes the drive take longer and hopefully sputter. If the Patriots do score, said team needs to be able to really keep some time of possession as well. Make this game go by as quickly as possible and hope to win it as a close game.

Do I think this would work? I doubt it, but at least its not the same game plan that is not only failing DCs each week, but getting them blown out. Few teams have the kind of talent to consistently get pressure on our O-line from their front 4, and I think that is what is needed.

 

[Water Boy]

How would I stop the Pats?

I'd put ex-lax in their gatorade.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

First of all you cannot just to one thing and stop this offense schematically. However here is a brief summary of what I'd do if I faced the Pats 3 WR set, with a TE and Single RB.

1. Ditka is right. You take your physical safeties and "invert" them. Put them up on the 2 WRs and have them play a tough man to man in the short zones. You have your athletic CBs covering the 2 halfs of the field deep.

2. On the the LOS you play a 4 man front with 2 LBs (similar to what the Pats played against the Colts) and dare the offense to run the ball. This assumes you have a very good DL and LBs who can both cover and play the run.

3. You put a CB or Saftey on Welker in the slot and double him with the LB to Welker's side. In other words the Saftey plays a tough physical man to man favoring the outside cuts, and the LB looks for him on the inside cuts.

Its certainly not perfect, and has obvious holes as most defenses do, but you force the Pats to throw to their TEs and RBs rather their WRs. You force them to run the ball, rather than throw. You have to put pressure on the QB with 4 man rushes. You have to disguise this look. Make Brady look for his 4th and 5th options

In conjunction with this, you mix it up with some 5 man under coverages, which kills the short passing game the Pats love so much, and some 4 man unders with 3 over, to kill the long placing game.

You have to get pressure with just 4 men rushing though changing up which 4 you rush can bring dividends

Hey I didn't say it would stop the pats, but it would change the way they move the ball down the field, and perhaps slow them down. Making them make long 12+ play drives. Drives that could break because of errors and penalties.

JMHO

Thanks for nothing, you bastid! If we lose now I'm coming to your house!

 

[Patters]

If I had to come up with a defensive game plan, I would try incantations and prayer. I might ask my D to beg and cry and appeal to the humanity of the Patriots players. Or maybe I would put 6 defenders on Randy Moss and hope Brady doesn't notice. Or I might have every two men on my D throw the third one up in the air in the hope his wide swath would block a Brady pass. I might instruct my safeties and CB's to leave their sneakers in running lanes to trip up our ball carriers. Or maybe I'd have one of my CBs act like he'd been shot, in the hope Moss, Stallworth, or Welker give up their run into the endzone to help. Or possibly have the D, just as the play got underway, point up at the sky as if something momentous happened, and use that distraction to tackle the ball carrier. Lastly, I might let the entire O past my D, and try to spin the ball carrier so that he thinks he's running the wrong way.

 

[psychoPat]

....
What say you? How would you try and stop this offense? Honestly, I have no idea. ....QUOTE]


First, it's a very thought-provoking thread.
Part of why the remainder of the season will retain interest ...
is that various future opponents ought to be trying out some theories like these.

But you know how to "try and stop this offense" as well as i do.
What worries me is that RatMan knows it too.
He has both motive and opportunity ... not to win that game, but to end the immaculate season.
His career is spiraling down the toilet. What's he got to lose?

Unfortunately, that wannabe thug Wilbon brought it up again just this evening.

 

[Ghost of Ben Dreith]

Look at it this way.....all of the other teams have, mostly, highly trained coaches with tons more time and experience than anybody on this board.....and they don't have the answer. The other portion of the question is even if they come up with the perfect answerm, they need the horses to implement the strategy (as others have mentioned).

I don't think there is an answer. You just have to put points up yourself and hope the Pats have a bad day.....like Brady has sometimes (at Miami 2 years ago I believe and at Denver in the playoffs).

They best thing they can do is contact Tanya Harding. That gal didn't mess around......she might have an answer.

 

[stcjones]

Madden sounded off recently on how he would try to stop the Pats (btw, is it just me, or is Madden getting back to being a good commentator as opposed to a caricature of himself?) - basically, and I think I've heard this elsewhere, the idea is "get a good rush with 4 and put the rest in coverage", and he adds that he'd be ultra-aggressive on offense.

Brilliant Gregg Easterbrook thinks man coverage is the solution to stopping Moss (and then in turn the Pats).

What say you? How would you try and stop this offense? Honestly, I have no idea. No matter what a D does, the Pats have a way to counter it. The only hope is having a defense fast enough to execute a sound game plan to somewhat slow the team down (Colts), and there are only a few teams that can do that.

I think that Madden is correct in that the ONLY way to slow down the Pats offense is to GET TO Brady.......I think that most of the remaining opponents will focus on that.......As a matter of fact MOST teams are going to go all out to take Brady OUT altogether.....because quite honestly if he goes out....the Pats go with him.....because if there is one achilles heel we have....it is having NO ONE to take over if Brady goes out....Let's hope that that never happens....however Matt Light is ALWAYS sporadic in blocking....and so is Nick Kazcur......

As far as teams going Ultra aggressive on offense....Most of them can not pull this off against us.....However, as we purely saw against the Bills....the pats are susceptible to give up a long pass here and there......Hobbs is either great or horrible........Samuels hasn't shown that he is a top corner.....and will not get big time cash after this year....good move by BB and Pioli.....

 

[stcjones]

First of all you cannot just to one thing and stop this offense schematically. However here is a brief summary of what I'd do if I faced the Pats 3 WR set, with a TE and Single RB.

1. Ditka is right. You take your physical safeties and "invert" them. Put them up on the 2 WRs and have them play a tough man to man in the short zones. You have your athletic CBs covering the 2 halfs of the field deep.

2. On the the LOS you play a 4 man front with 2 LBs (similar to what the Pats played against the Colts) and dare the offense to run the ball. This assumes you have a very good DL and LBs who can both cover and play the run.

3. You put a CB or Saftey on Welker in the slot and double him with the LB to Welker's side. In other words the Saftey plays a tough physical man to man favoring the outside cuts, and the LB looks for him on the inside cuts.

Its certainly not perfect, and has obvious holes as most defenses do, but you force the Pats to throw to their TEs and RBs rather their WRs. You force them to run the ball, rather than throw. You have to put pressure on the QB with 4 man rushes. You have to disguise this look. Make Brady look for his 4th and 5th options

In conjunction with this, you mix it up with some 5 man under coverages, which kills the short passing game the Pats love so much, and some 4 man unders with 3 over, to kill the long placing game.

You have to get pressure with just 4 men rushing though changing up which 4 you rush can bring dividends

Hey I didn't say it would stop the pats, but it would change the way they move the ball down the field, and perhaps slow them down. Making them make long 12+ play drives. Drives that could break because of errors and penalties.

JMHO

#1 will not work against Moss or Stallworth because they have both proven that they can beat TRIPLE coverage if need be,........Also try to shut down Welker while shutting down Moss, Stallworth, and Gaffney.....not going to happen.....

#2 ...is a legitimate approach....Forcing us to run could be interesting.....although Maroney has had a good YPC avg overall.....he has also struggled at times, and gets injured if he sneezes.....IMHO we need to sign some other back to back up LoMo or take over if/when he goes down again......Evans and Eckel as your primary backs......will NOT get it done.....IF..a team can shut down the passing game.....

#3.....won't work if faulk can come back.....and Troy Brown checks in in some capacity.....secondly....don't forget the TE's.....Watson's touches could increase dramatically........

Overall we have a very diversified offense....and trying to shut it down in any area....will be VERY tough....especially for the remaining teams that we will be facing......

 

[IcyPatriot]

As mentioned by several posters in this thread the Colts came the closest to stopping Brady. What I would do different from that is to put more rush pressure up the middle as opposed to the sides. Make Brady keep his feet moving and do not under any circumstances let him step forward to pass ... he's deadly when stepping forward to pass.

At the very least this makes Brady move to one side or the other cutting the field in half ... I still don't think it works due to the level Brady is playing. But nobody forces him to the side. As a side note ... that's how we used to beat Manning ... simply flushing him and getting him to move from the pocket and not letting him set his feet.