Moss is more valuable than Brady

[Lansdowne]

I've been saying co-mvp all along. It goes hand in hand. If they both end up breaking records, how could you pick one over the other. Co-MVP seems like the best option. They both deserve it.

Yup. Brady would be great as usual but he wouldn't be over-the-top great without Moss. Same goes vice-versa.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Isn't it really cool that the debate is which Patriot is the league MVP, and not a Patriot vs. a player on another team.

 

[sanvara]

Easy, Brady is the one throwing the balls to Moss. Looking at the stats Brady has thrown 22 TD's to people not named Moss.

This is just another BS way to downgrade Brady's performance this year.

The author is not downgrading Brady's performance. He said right up front that Brady is one of his favorite players of all time.

Obviously arguments can be made both ways but Tom has never had a season like this before and a large part of Tom's level of play being so high this season is because of Moss. Not only the plays Moss makes but he opens the field up for Tom to get the ball to other guys.

Tom's QB rating for the six years he has been a starter has been between 85 and 92. This year he gets Moss and his rating is 131. Tom didn't all of a sudden become a better player after six seasons. He's basically the same QB he was last year, but Moss is the difference.

 

[sieglo]

This is a silly discussion. Moss isn't even leading the Pats in catches. Clearly, he's overrated.

 

[upstater1]

I wonder who Whitlock voted for MVP in 2004?

Did he vote for Marvin Harrison or Peyton Manning?

 

[Xzibit23]

Those of you who are saying "Brady won 3 SBs" or "Brady has won without Moss, what has Moss won"..are missing the point. Brady was great before Moss, there's no debate around that nor is Whitlock trying to argue the opposite. In fact he makes a point to continually mention that Brady is indeed one of the alltime greats.

Thing is while Brady has accomplish A LOT without Moss, he has NOT put up MVP numbers. So while he experience a lot of success with the Caldwells of the world, he never experienced the individual success he's going through now. Moss on the other hand has had MVP type impact and performances in previous seasons. Actually, if not for the Vikings slowing down the last 5 weeks of the 2001 season, he was the leading candidate. He was also in contention in '98 and '03, where he again fell victim to the team fading down the stretch.

You see, Brady has showed his true value to the team time and time again, by the SBs and signature moments. But he has not shown MVP value in regards to the award and what it means. MVP value is also dependant on team success but that's secondary, while statistical performance from an individual standpoint is what gives the winners that award, and Brady has done this year that he hasn't in the past.

 

[Xzibit23]

I wonder who Whitlock voted for MVP in 2004?

Did he vote for Marvin Harrison or Peyton Manning?

Did Marvin break the TD record?? Was that Marvin's first year with the team?? Because that creates a direct correlation between Manning having that season.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

The author is not downgrading Brady's performance. He said right up front that Brady is one of his favorite players of all time.

Obviously arguments can be made both ways but Tom has never had a season like this before and a large part of Tom's level of play being so high this season is because of Moss. Not only the plays Moss makes but he opens the field up for Tom to get the ball to other guys.

Tom's QB rating for the six years he has been a starter has been between 85 and 92. This year he gets Moss and his rating is 131. Tom didn't all of a sudden become a better player after six seasons. He's basically the same QB he was last year, but Moss is the difference.

Think about your argument for a second.

Almost everyone will agree that Pats 2005 receivers > Pats 2006 receivers. But Brady's numbers are--nevertheless--quite similar. Could it possibly be that the effort Brady put in to get those receivers into shape is truly paying off now that he has top-flight receivers?

Also, if it's merely that he has better WRs, how do you explain the fact that Welker's catch % has gone up dramatically as well (Welker was catching about 65% of his passes last year; now he's catching a league-leading* 80%). Last I checked, Welker's not exactly the kind of receiver that can catch a badly overthrown pass.

 

[nukin]

Stupid thread, move on!

 

[Xzibit23]

Think about your argument for a second.

Almost everyone will agree that Pats 2005 receivers > Pats 2006 receivers. But Brady's numbers are--nevertheless--quite similar. Could it possibly be that the effort Brady put in to get those receivers into shape is truly paying off now that he has top-flight receivers?

Also, if it's merely that he has better WRs, how do you explain the fact that Welker's catch % has gone up dramatically as well (Welker was catching about 65% of his passes last year; now he's catching a league-leading* 80%). Last I checked, Welker's not exactly the kind of receiver that can catch a badly overthrown pass.

At the end of the day, BOTH Moss and Brady make those around them better, including each other. It really doesn't have to be an either/or options. They're both HOFers who are among the greatest at their respective positions. I still believe Brady is more valuable because I believe his position is more valuable, but Moss is right behind him and much more valuable that some Pats fans would like to believe.

 

[Tip_Drill_81]

It's not really close in my opinion. I think Brady is deserving of the MVP, mainly because QB's are the most important position in the game. Favre, Romo and Roethlisberger are probably gonna be considered just because of their position alone. They are more important to their team (Favre, Romo, Ben) because without them their teams suck. However in no way do i think they are outplaying Moss. Moss is playing at a level that is only comparable to Brady right now, (and possibly T.O.).

with that said...CAN WE ALL AGREE ON ONE THING:

...Outside of Brady (or any QB), Moss is the MVP!

His ability to stretch the field is amazing. I've never seen anyone else do this before. He really makes it feel like we're playing 11 on 9.

 

[patsonmyback]

At the end of the day, BOTH Moss and Brady make those around them better, including each other. It really doesn't have to be an either/or options. They're both HOFers who are among the greatest at their respective positions. I still believe Brady is more valuable because I believe his position is more valuable, but Moss is right behind him and much more valuable that some Pats fans would like to believe.

Best Synopsis I've heard during the entire discussion. Lets let it rest.

 

[Amnorix]

errr....no.

Having Moss allows Brady to have an MVP season. That I will agree with.

But Brady is MORE valuable than Moss. If Moss goes down, we at least go far into the playoffs, and maybe win the SB. IF Brady goes down, we are DOA.

 

[dakevdude]

errr....no.

Having Moss allows Brady to have an MVP season. That I will agree with.

But Brady is MORE valuable than Moss. If Moss goes down, we at least go far into the playoffs, and maybe win the SB. IF Brady goes down, we are DOA.

Why is everyone arguing about this??? As much as I'm a Moss fan...Brady is the league's MVP by far...

This is twisted logic but...

Moss will give the Pats the best chance to break all them records and go undefeated for the season...

Brady will give the Pats the best chance to win the Super Bowl!!!

nough said...

 

[TruthSeeker]

Tom's QB rating for the six years he has been a starter has been between 85 and 92. This year he gets Moss and his rating is 131. Tom didn't all of a sudden become a better player after six seasons. He's basically the same QB he was last year, but Moss is the difference.

Actually, Tom Brady is a significantly better player this year. His accuracy is much better than in past years. Not sure why that is...

 

[Deus Irae]

Those of you who are saying "Brady won 3 SBs" or "Brady has won without Moss, what has Moss won"..are missing the point. Brady was great before Moss, there's no debate around that nor is Whitlock trying to argue the opposite. In fact he makes a point to continually mention that Brady is indeed one of the alltime greats.

Thing is while Brady has accomplish A LOT without Moss, he has NOT put up MVP numbers. So while he experience a lot of success with the Caldwells of the world, he never experienced the individual success he's going through now. Moss on the other hand has had MVP type impact and performances in previous seasons. Actually, if not for the Vikings slowing down the last 5 weeks of the 2001 season, he was the leading candidate. He was also in contention in '98 and '03, where he again fell victim to the team fading down the stretch.

You see, Brady has showed his true value to the team time and time again, by the SBs and signature moments. But he has not shown MVP value in regards to the award and what it means. MVP value is also dependant on team success but that's secondary, while statistical performance from an individual standpoint is what gives the winners that award, and Brady has done this year that he hasn't in the past.

Tom Brady quarterbacked the New England Patriots to the longest winning streak in NFL history. He's also led his team to 3 Super Bowl Victories, tied Roger Staubach for the most victories in the first 100 starts of an NFL quarterbacking career, let his team to a league best 14-2 record in 2003 and a league second best 15-1 record in 2004. His numbers, adjusted for indoors vs. outdoors, are better than Mannings, and that's prior to this season. He led the NFL in passing yards in 2005, will lead the league agains this season, and has been in the top 10 in passing yards for every full season of his career. He led the league in passing touchdowns in 2002, will lead the league again this season, and has been in the top ten in this category every full season of his career. In fact, he's already 42nd all time in completions and 36th all time in passing touchdowns.

How are those numbers not MVP worthy prior to Moss showing up?

 

[FrontSeven]

It ain't even close.

Right, Jason, you aren't even close to reality.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

This Patriot team can win a Super Bowl without Randy Moss.
This Patriot team cannot win a Super Bowl without Tom Brady.
Brady is the MVP and it's not even close.

 

[Charlotte Pats Fan]

and 16 to Moss,

and how many of Moss' have been spectacular catches. Keep it real.

Hey whatever makes you feel better. What's the matter you scared Brady might actually be a better QB than Payton ?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The author is not downgrading Brady's performance. He said right up front that Brady is one of his favorite players of all time.

Obviously arguments can be made both ways but Tom has never had a season like this before and a large part of Tom's level of play being so high this season is because of Moss. Not only the plays Moss makes but he opens the field up for Tom to get the ball to other guys.

Tom's QB rating for the six years he has been a starter has been between 85 and 92. This year he gets Moss and his rating is 131. Tom didn't all of a sudden become a better player after six seasons. He's basically the same QB he was last year, but Moss is the difference.

So explain why if it is all the Moss talent effect he hasn't been able to impact a team or raise it's level of play for the last 3-4 years - and was said to be washed up and not worth it UNTIL he got here...with Brady.

Brady may have wanted better receivers than he had in 2006, although you would never know it from the way he handles himself in the media, but he was not the one who literally desolved into tears in his interview with BB and begged him to please just get me out of there...

If they made these awards based on the correct interpretation of value, Brady should have won it last year and probabaly in 2003-2004. But since they choose to make it a prolific stats contest where the QB gets the credit for getting the ball even to elite receivers, no changing the rules now.

This is Brady's once and for all I am not a damn system QB award.