Maroney: Let's See What We Agree On

[aluminum seats]

I apologize for another Maroney thread, but it seems to me that all of them devolve into the same worthless back and forth insults. So I thought I would start a thread with what I see are the points of agreement here, and try to isolate what posters are really arguing about.

I think most would agree with the following:

1) Maroney has tremendous innate talent, ability, and upside.

2) To date, for whatever reason--injuries, too much dancing, a combination of factors--he has not yet lived up to his potential.

3) Maroney has in no way been a terrible back, or a bust, or whatever you want to call it, but again, somewhat of a disappointment to date.

Assuming most agree on this, I think we isolate the points of agument to the following--you can take different positions on these points:

1) What we've seen of Maroney so far will be reflective of what we will continue to see--often injured, not enough decisiveness hitting the hole, not a "star" back..........OR, with continued refinement, a healthy off-season where he can bulk up a bit more, he will emerge as a truly dangerous threat for the next few seasons.

2) Following on that, the Pats either should or should not actively look for another RB (high up, that is) in next year's draft.

For the record, I'm in the camp that while Maroney has been somewhat disappointing to date, he will continue to improve and I would be very surprised and disagree with drafting another RB with a high (first day) pick. But can we all agree that this is what the back and forth about him comes down to?

 

[aluminum seats]

Just thought I'd bump in an attempt to get some actual, you know, Maroney discussion going here instead of pissy name-calling.

How about this: who can address the markedly greater success Eckel and Evans had last night compared to Maroney? I'm curious.

 

[Fencer]

Maroney still has slight higher YPC on the season than Morris.

Morris has a couple more TDs, suggesting perhaps a slight difference in the down/distance mix. (Maroney hasn't failed this year in short yardage situations so much as not being tried.) Neither has done much pass-catching.

Basically, Maroney has been no more effective on the season than a career backup.

Last season, Maroney was approximately as effective as a way-past-his-prime near-HOFer.

It's safe to say that Maroney hasn't shot to stardom. But a second-year player who starts and plays like a JAG isn't a bust either.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

How about this: who can address the markedly greater success Eckel and Evans had last night compared to Maroney? I'm curious.

I'm not a huge Maroney apologist by any stretch, but it looked to me as though Buffalo had given up by that point. The game was still in play and the crowd going crazy during Maroney's first few carries.

Running is a rhythm thing, and it takes carries to get going. Pats scored 7 times in 7 possession by passing. Running is a waste with this team the way that it was playing, until the game is no longer in doubt and you want to use clock.

Kind of looked to me as though Belichick was trying to get a look at guys who don't play that much against live competition last night, so that if there's an injury they've had some practice. Almost like a preseason game. I'm not sure Maroney on the sidelines means anything.

I bet he comes out on fire next time.

 

[BelichickFan]

Maroney is only 22 (Addai is 24) and probably is lacking a little in maturity on (hitting the hole) and off (some of his comments) the field. I still have extremely high expectations for him over the next 3 1/2 years.

 

[mykl]

I apologize for another Maroney thread, but it seems to me that all of them devolve into the same worthless back and forth insults. So I thought I would start a thread with what I see are the points of agreement here, and try to isolate what posters are really arguing about.

I think most would agree with the following:

1) Maroney has tremendous innate talent, ability, and upside.

2) To date, for whatever reason--injuries, too much dancing, a combination of factors--he has not yet lived up to his potential.

3) Maroney has in no way been a terrible back, or a bust, or whatever you want to call it, but again, somewhat of a disappointment to date.

Assuming most agree on this, I think we isolate the points of agument to the following--you can take different positions on these points:

1) What we've seen of Maroney so far will be reflective of what we will continue to see--often injured, not enough decisiveness hitting the hole, not a "star" back..........OR, with continued refinement, a healthy off-season where he can bulk up a bit more, he will emerge as a truly dangerous threat for the next few seasons.

2) Following on that, the Pats either should or should not actively look for another RB (high up, that is) in next year's draft.

For the record, I'm in the camp that while Maroney has been somewhat disappointing to date, he will continue to improve and I would be very surprised and disagree with drafting another RB with a high (first day) pick. But can we all agree that this is what the back and forth about him comes down to?

Even if I agree with your first three points and think that Maroney will not become a reliably healthy, power back, I don't think that it follows that we need to draft a back at the top of the draft. Obviously there have been some very special runners throughout the history of the NFL, but for the most part, with an excellent OLine (which we have) and a good QB (which we have in spades) there are a lot of backs out there that can be plugged in and run the ball effectively. A team only has so many offensive snaps in a game, and since we have one of the greatest QBs of all time, I'd prefer to trust the ball in his hands with a good group of receivers and a servicable back (whether it is Maroney, Morris, Faulk, Evans, Eckel, or someone else I've never heard of) and then use the pick either on a real area of need or trade down. We simply don't need the second coming of Walter Payton to be an effective offense. Minnesota does...that's their thing...it definitely is not ours.

 

[kierkegaard]

I wonder if our o-line isn't as good at run blocking as it is at pass blocking. I think this is essentially the same line in place that Dillon racked up 1,600 yards with 3 seasons ago, so that is probably not the case. However, since that time we have also moved to a zone blocking scheme - maybe that isn't being executed as well as the previous scheme?

I don't know about anyone else but I never feel like the "hole is always there." If it were, it would be Maroney's fault for not hitting it fast enough and making something out of a small opportunity. That may be why Maroney earns the brunt of his criticisms, he doesn't seem to do a great job of making something out of little or nothing like some powerbacks in the league. However, I also feel that there are few better than him when he has space and a good sized hole.

I admit there was a carry or two last night where I caught myself thinking, "if he would just hit the hole he would get maybe 2-3 yards" where instead he kind of hesitated and ended up with no gain. If that is what we're criticizing him, I completely understand. At the same time, however, I think we have to grant that that is not his running style. He wants to wait for things to develop and make something big out of it. Of course, we all want to see him develop into a great NFL running back and in order to do that he is going to have to be something more than a bigger/stronger Reggie Bush clone.

 

[aluminum seats]

Even if I agree with your first three points and think that Maroney will not become a reliably healthy, power back, I don't think that it follows that we need to draft a back at the top of the draft. Obviously there have been some very special runners throughout the history of the NFL, but for the most part, with an excellent OLine (which we have) and a good QB (which we have in spades) there are a lot of backs out there that can be plugged in and run the ball effectively. A team only has so many offensive snaps in a game, and since we have one of the greatest QBs of all time, I'd prefer to trust the ball in his hands with a good group of receivers and a servicable back (whether it is Maroney, Morris, Faulk, Evans, Eckel, or someone else I've never heard of) and then use the pick either on a real area of need or trade down. We simply don't need the second coming of Walter Payton to be an effective offense. Minnesota does...that's their thing...it definitely is not ours.

This is a fair point. I suppose to clarify, I should ask whether drafting a RB high up should even be part of the reasonable discussion, rather than an absolute. I would say there is no way, right now, the Pats should draft a back.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

I think he needs to improve on his vision to find the open lanes. but i also wonder if that is something you have or don't

 

[VJCPatriot]

This is a fair point. I suppose to clarify, I should ask whether drafting a RB high up should even be part of the reasonable discussion, rather than an absolute. I would say there is no way, right now, the Pats should draft a back.

Yes if you are of the belief that having Evans and Eckel as the only healthy backs on the roster is a GOOD thing, your rationale is certainly irrefutable . But for those of us who realized that Gaffney and Caldwell as starting options was a BAD thing in 2006, this is exactly the kind of situation we DON'T want to have in 2008.

Maroney seems to get injured on a regular basis, Faulk is long in the tooth, Morris is out for the year on IR. There is no SURE thing about the Patriots RB corps except for the reality that in fact they are paper thin.

I've heard unbacked and blindly optimistic assertions that Maroney will be 100% in 2008, that Morris will be 100% in 2008, and that Faulk will be back as usual. But of course in reality that is no sure thing. The Patriots have the draft picks to spend in 2008 and they have a weakness at the RB position. They can address that issue squarely in 2008, whether it be with Darren McFadden (a bonafide stud) or another talented RB prospect later in the 1st day.

 

[abdul7]

Maroney is our RB now and for a few more seasons. My instinct tells me he is being saved for the post season to fire on all cylinders, now that we have lost Morris. He will get a few snaps along the way but watch him go in the play offs. No we dont draft a RB no matter how great he is. Maroney will achieve here even more than C. Martin did. End of story.

 

[borg]

On this road to perfection, I view Maroney as the weakest link of the starting 22. Not to say he is terrible, far from it. BB has lined up an amazing group of talent, with an emphasis on the passing game. But Maroney has be ordinary to say the least...and when you factor in his draft status and injury history, I have to place him on the bottom of the list.

 

[JaredOfNazareth]

I don't think the team needs him some, or even most, weeks. This isn't the '99-'01 Rams where the offense went through Marshall Faulk. This team is so good with their passing attack they don't need an elite RB. The best secondary NE has or will face is the Colts secondary. Maroney won't be used much going forward IMO.

 

[mykl]

Yes if you are of the belief that having Evans and Eckel as the only healthy backs on the roster is a GOOD thing, your rationale is certainly irrefutable . But for those of us who realized that Gaffney and Caldwell as starting options was a BAD thing in 2006, this is exactly the kind of situation we DON'T want to have in 2008.

Maroney seems to get injured on a regular basis, Faulk is long in the tooth, Morris is out for the year on IR. There is no SURE thing about the Patriots RB corps except for the reality that in fact they are paper thin.

I've heard unbacked and blindly optimistic assertions that Maroney will be 100% in 2008, that Morris will be 100% in 2008, and that Faulk will be back as usual. But of course in reality that is no sure thing. The Patriots have the draft picks to spend in 2008 and they have a weakness at the RB position. They can address that issue squarely in 2008, whether it be with Darren McFadden (a bonafide stud) or another talented RB prospect later in the 1st day.

Right, except that we could draft a RB in the third round if health is your issue. We don't need the best back in the world to be sucessful. Evans and Eckel as our only healthy backs is, of course, not a good thing. But neither would having an injured Adrian Peterson. High draft position does not mean the back is going to stay healthy. And since a mid round runner could be sucessful with our line, why use the #2 pick in the draft on a RB?

 

[emoney_33]

BB knows the average career of RB's, BB knows how much pounding RB's take, BB knows it would be foolish to pound Maroney in there just to PROVE that we can run. When we NEED to run, Maroney will be there, otherwise there is no need to put our only healthy RB in there.

 

[JaredOfNazareth]

He isn't the worst starter we have. He just isn't needed on offense to score against anyone. Or rather the offense can score on anyone with Kyle Eckel as the RB. This isn't Maroney's fault. Can he be used successfuly? Yes. He's proven that. Blame Polian for the passing game rule changes that now help the Pats. Or blame the salary Cap increase that made this Pats team possible. Don't blame Maroney. If BB wanted Maroney to have 100yd games week in week out, Maroney could and he would. It is not needed though.

 

[JaredOfNazareth]

BB knows the average career of RB's, BB knows how much pounding RB's take, BB knows it would be foolish to pound Maroney in there just to PROVE that we can run. When we NEED to run, Maroney will be there, otherwise there is no need to put our only healthy RB in there.

Amen brother!

 

[JaredOfNazareth]

The guys who have the longest careers are QBs and Olinemen. That's why I would rather them draft Jake Long over Darren McFadden.

 

[Gumby]

If any of these "cut him now" / "maroney was a waste of a draft pick" guys would get just a WEE TEENSY BIT OF HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE.....


Does anybody remember Kevin Faulk's first 3 years on the team. And the resounding noise on this and other message boards for him to be gone due to his fumblitis??????


Well now after we have 3 SB trophies in the bank; Look back at the integral part that '3rd down -1st down in the bank Faulk' has played in all the key games and key drives of our winning seasons.

Would any of you now, want that we had unloaded Kevin Faulk?

I submit that BB is merely bringing Maroney along. he is coaching him up; much the way he coached Faulk up. He was a stern disciplinarian then sitting Kevin when he coughed up the ball too much and continued to play him when others were screaming he was a liability.

Also, don't forget BB sees things in PRACTICE and in GAMES. You only get to see the game effort. If BB thinks the kid is still valuable - which he does since he still suits him up - then I know whose opinion I trust.

Get a little patience and wait to see the whole year's effort by maroney before you scream for us to unload him. Whatever he is 'diamond in the rough' or 'under-performing talent' that decision is best made in the off-season - NOT now.

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

I am fine with Maroney. I think he is giving us everything he is capable of giving us. It is the expectations of we, the fans, that are out of whack.

The kid just cannot live up to our lofty hopes and dreams for him.

His talent is limited, his running style ineffective, his heart and desire to stay on the field in question.

In short, he has what is known around these parts as “Bethel-Johnson-itis”.

Here is the best treatment for “Bethel-Johnson-itis”:

Adjust expectations twice daily as needed.

Once done, you will find you are fine with Maroney as being exactly what he is: an average back with some decent upside/potential. You will appreciate what Sammy Morris was giving us.

But let's address your post's points, shall we?

1) Maroney has tremendous innate talent, ability, and upside.

I will hold back on the word "tremendous", but yes, I think there is some talent there that we may not have seen yet.

2) To date, for whatever reason--injuries, too much dancing, a combination of factors--he has not yet lived up to his potential.
Totally agree. And would like to add another slant.

Maybe this our fault. Maybe WE overrated HIS potential.

Maybe he has lived up to EXACTLY what his potential is.

Just a thought.

3) Maroney has in no way been a terrible back, or a bust, or whatever you want to call it, but again, somewhat of a disappointment to date.

I would not call him neither terrible or a bust. He has his moments. He reminds me (in character, not style) a of a guy that Pats had a fews years back named Sedrick Shaw.

Shaw came out of Iowa (I think) with huge expectations.

He had a couple of big games - I remember one against Miami, in particular - but never really fulfilled the hype.

In the end, Shaw ended up being an average to mediocre back. A "6 carries for 19 yards and a TD" type of back.

Assuming most agree on this, I think we isolate the points of agument to the following--you can take different positions on these points:

1) What we've seen of Maroney so far will be reflective of what we will continue to see--often injured, not enough decisiveness hitting the hole, not a "star" back..........OR, with continued refinement, a healthy off-season where he can bulk up a bit more, he will emerge as a truly dangerous threat for the next few seasons.

I think we are seeing Maroney for what Maroney is. So, that said...

2) Following on that, the Pats either should or should not actively look for another RB (high up, that is) in next year's draft.

Look for a stud in the draft.

We are going to have a very high pick in San Fran's #1.

Let's start picturing what a Matt Forte or a Darren McFadden (if he comes out as a junior, as expected) might look like in a Pats uniform. And I would hang onto Maroney, too, and develop him into a third down, goal line back, similar to how we use Faulk, who can't have many laps left.