Running from the shotgun

[bokonon]

For X&O gurus and enthusiasts, bear with me here while I get to the point.

FACTS:
1. We know that BB was hanging out with Urban Meyer during the off season the past couple of years.
2. Meyer runs at spread option offense at Florida as he did at Utah.
3. I notice that when the Pats line up in the gun this year, the RB is lined up about a yard further back than the QB- this is very similar to they way they do it at UF and I don't remember seeing the Pats do it before this year.
4. The Pats have switched to a zone blocking scheme this year (like Meyer's offenses us).
5. The bread and butter play for UF and other spread option teams is called the "zone read" or "QB read"; This is a play where the shotgun QB meshes with the RB and has the option to give the handoff or keep it depending on what the defense does. The QB can run or pass if he keeps (sometimes there is also a pitch option).
6. I've noticed on a few play action passes by tha Pats, Brady seems to mesh with the RB (usually Maroney) and pause for a split second before pulling the ball out.

SPECULATION:
So, is it possible that the Pats are actually running an option / QB read play (or variant thereof) in these cases? None of the announcers ever mention such a thing, but it's not so crazy the think maybe BB/JM are giving Brady- who reads the defense extremely quickly- the choice to throw or hand off, or (gasp) even run. Is it? As a fan of inventive offenses (my favorite college team is Navy) I for one would find it super-cool if that were the case. Perhaps we could even see former Gator Chad Jackson get involved as a motioning pitch man!

Discuss.

ps - Along the same vein of thought, I loved the Brad Smith counter option the Jets ran against Pittsburgh yesterday. They should give him way more snaps at QB. I hate the Jets but that guy is a fun player to watch.

 

[TripleOption]

5. The bread and butter play for UF and other spread option teams is called the "zone read" or "QB read"; This is a play where the shotgun QB meshes with the RB and has the option to give the handoff or keep it depending on what the defense does. The QB can run or pass if he keeps (sometimes there is also a pitch option).

6. I've noticed on a few play action passes by tha Pats, Brady seems to mesh with the RB (usually Maroney) and pause for a split second before pulling the ball out.

SPECULATION:
So, is it possible that the Pats are actually running an option / QB read play (or variant thereof) in these cases? None of the announcers ever mention such a thing, but it's not so crazy the think maybe BB/JM are giving Brady- who reads the defense extremely quickly- the choice to throw or hand off, or (gasp) even run. Is it? As a fan of inventive offenses (my favorite college team is Navy) I for one would find it super-cool if that were the case. Perhaps we could even see former Gator Chad Jackson get involved as a motioning pitch man!

1. The Zone Read involves the QB reading the backside DE and pulling if the DE "flat chases" the Ace Back. If the DE is upfield for the QB, the QB gives to the back.

2. No. It is just play action, no read involved.

3. There are no run/pass reads. If the QB is reading (in college, not the Pros) it is a give/pull situation.

3. It's kind of funny to call Navy's offense "inventive"...the Double Slot is a variant of the Wishbone (sometimes called the 'One Back Bone') and has been around since the 80's and before. Paul Johnson ran it at Georgia Southern and I have seen it at Army, Hawaii(Johnson), Rice, Air Force and many other College programs.

I run the Triple at my HS and although we don't run the Flexbone anymore, I don't think anyone ever called us "inventive"...we tend to rush for 300-400 or more yards on the ground and throw once or twice.

 

[bokonon]

TripleOption, thanks for the thoughtful response.

1. You're right, inventive is not the right word to use (but I think Paul Johnson has done some innovating within the context of that offense). More like, rarely seen at higher college/pro levels, different, fun, deceptive option offenses like Navy's are what I have the most fun watching. Patriots excluded from that statement.

2. I thought I remembered reading that Vince Young at Texas had plays where he had a "pass" read off of the run option. Maybe I misremember or misunderstood. But if it is really never done, can you offer some insight as to why not? I suspect the unblocked DE might have something to do with it, but ways could be found around that, no?

3. Is there something you (I) can see on TV that tells you (me) with certainty whether the QB is making a read during the hand-off?

 

[RayClay]

Kind of skimmed since i need to leave.

Did you really say Brady running a QB option?

 

[TripleOption]

TripleOption, thanks for the thoughtful response.

1. You're right, inventive is not the right word to use (but I think Paul Johnson has done some innovating within the context of that offense). More like, rarely seen at higher college/pro levels, different, fun, deceptive option offenses like Navy's are what I have the most fun watching. Patriots excluded from that statement.

2. I thought I remembered reading that Vince Young at Texas had plays where he had a "pass" read off of the run option. Maybe I misremember or misunderstood. But if it is really never done, can you offer some insight as to why not? I suspect the unblocked DE might have something to do with it, but ways could be found around that, no?

3. Is there something you (I) can see on TV that tells you (me) with certainty whether the QB is making a read during the hand-off?

1. I like different...Option, Urban Meyer's stuff, the Pistol...That's what makes College FB interesting.

2. Not that I am familiar with, and I consider that stuff a distant cousin to the Triple...like Meyer's stuff. Hell, Urban said he would run the Triple if the boosters wouldn't cut his head off. You are reading a player for run only...short of Sprint Out, where you read an Invert for run/pass.

3. Watch the QB's eyes, the blocking. If a player is unblocked, then he is likely being read. I don't believe anyone in the NFl runs an Option, although Tennesee talked about it for Young. The speed and quickness of the NFL player allows for the dreaded "dive key playing the QB AND the Dive", which would kill an Option.

 

[bokonon]

1. I like different...Option, Urban Meyer's stuff, the Pistol...That's what makes College FB interesting.

Agreed. I've yet to watch a game with the pistol offense though, isn't Nevada running it? Hopefully I can catch them in a bowl game this year.

 

[TripleOption]

Agreed. I've yet to watch a game with the pistol offense though, isn't Nevada running it? Hopefully I can catch them in a bowl game this year.

Yes, Nevada and a few others have adopted it. It seems to be becoing the "It" Offense in HS now, kind of like Urban's stuff when he was at Utah. The Wing-T and the Triple Option are both tried and true, however...:snob:

 

[BelichickFan]

I watched a little of the Texas Tech game this weekend and the offense looked remarkably like ours - just with shorter passes generally. So much shotgun, some running out of it, 3,4,5 WR, split out, less bunch formations and tight formations than Florida.

 

[TripleOption]

I watched a little of the Texas Tech game this weekend and the offense looked remarkably like ours - just with shorter passes generally. So much shotgun, some running out of it, 3,4,5 WR, split out, less bunch formations and tight formations than Florida.

It's a Spread Offense. Weis mixed and matched from that and some 2TE Power stuff.

 

[JoeSixPat]

For X&O gurus and enthusiasts, bear with me here while I get to the point.

FACTS:
1. We know that BB was hanging out with Urban Meyer during the off season the past couple of years.
2. Meyer runs at spread option offense at Florida as he did at Utah.
3. I notice that when the Pats line up in the gun this year, the RB is lined up about a yard further back than the QB- this is very similar to they way they do it at UF and I don't remember seeing the Pats do it before this year.
4. The Pats have switched to a zone blocking scheme this year (like Meyer's offenses us).
5. The bread and butter play for UF and other spread option teams is called the "zone read" or "QB read"; This is a play where the shotgun QB meshes with the RB and has the option to give the handoff or keep it depending on what the defense does. The QB can run or pass if he keeps (sometimes there is also a pitch option).
6. I've noticed on a few play action passes by tha Pats, Brady seems to mesh with the RB (usually Maroney) and pause for a split second before pulling the ball out.

SPECULATION:
So, is it possible that the Pats are actually running an option / QB read play (or variant thereof) in these cases? None of the announcers ever mention such a thing, but it's not so crazy the think maybe BB/JM are giving Brady- who reads the defense extremely quickly- the choice to throw or hand off, or (gasp) even run. Is it? As a fan of inventive offenses (my favorite college team is Navy) I for one would find it super-cool if that were the case. Perhaps we could even see former Gator Chad Jackson get involved as a motioning pitch man!

Discuss.

ps - Along the same vein of thought, I loved the Brad Smith counter option the Jets ran against Pittsburgh yesterday. They should give him way more snaps at QB. I hate the Jets but that guy is a fun player to watch.

I'm not sure I'm getting the point you're trying to make, but if I'm not mistaken, the Pats use of the running game out of the shotgun was discussed during the game analysis (all of which was pretty good I thought).

Madden noted that the offense is running the shotgun so much "they figured they needed to run it every now and then" from that formation (if I heard him correctly - I wasn't paying close attention at that moment)

It makes sense as the Pats are using the Pass as the primary offensive weapon and taking a shotgun stance telegraphs that all the more... handing off to the RB lined up just behind the QB can certainly catch D's offguard

 

[ilduce06410]

that's why option offense can't be run.

the ublocked DTs and MLs are supposed have "taken" the fake with the inside handoff to the FB.
they'll be too far behind the play to matter.
NFL LBs and DTs may take the fake, but in the NFL they are too fast and nasty.
goodbye QB, by second quarter.
qb is exposed. he's the decision maker. the NFL defensive player would chow down
imagine tom brady running the "veer", which i learned in houston. it's the same as "option".

invented by bill yeoman, HC at the U of Houston, had to be 1968. still unstoppable . in the NFL, you'd need 10 QBs to run any part of it if it exposes the QB.

1. I like different...Option, Urban Meyer's stuff, the Pistol...That's what makes College FB interesting.

2. Not that I am familiar with, and I consider that stuff a distant cousin to the Triple...like Meyer's stuff. Hell, Urban said he would run the Triple if the boosters wouldn't cut his head off. You are reading a player for run only...short of Sprint Out, where you read an Invert for run/pass.

3. Watch the QB's eyes, the blocking. If a player is unblocked, then he is likely being read. I don't believe anyone in the NFl runs an Option, although Tennesee talked about it for Young. The speed and quickness of the NFL player allows for the dreaded "dive key playing the QB AND the Dive", which would kill an Option.

 

[TripleOption]

Re: that's why option offense can't be run.

imagine tom brady running the "veer", which i learned in houston. it's the same as "option".

invented by bill yeoman, HC at the U of Houston, had to be 1968. still unstoppable . in the NFL, you'd need 10 QBs to run any part of it if it exposes the QB.

The Veer is just one component these days...most true Option teams run the Inside Veer, Outside Veer, Midline and Speed Option...

 

[Joker]

What kind of veer is Brady to Moss?

 

[TripleOption]

What kind of veer is Brady to Moss?

The best kind.

Now, if you can tell me how to get them both on my HS team, I will run the Patriots offense and scrap the Option. Until then, I'll stick with it.

 

[Dragda]

Agreed. I've yet to watch a game with the pistol offense though, isn't Nevada running it? Hopefully I can catch them in a bowl game this year.

The pistol isn't all that special. The Nevada QB just lines up a bit closer to the center.

 

[TripleOption]

The pistol isn't all that special. The Nevada QB just lines up a bit closer to the center.

Not really. He also has a FB and TB lined up behind him. It's a pretty different animal with some different issues than the standard Shotgun.