Why is Adam Vinatieri Mr. Clutch?

[makewayhomer]

as with most things "clutch" people tend to use selective memory. nobody remembers the kicks he missed vs Carolina in the SB or against Denver in the 2005 playoffs. I guess those weren't clutchy enough for people to count!! the idea that the others weren't big enough is LOL - what, he wasn't trying on those? if so, isn't that a pretty big FLAW??

to the OP: if he had a 41% of making all 4, that means almost half the time he's doing it.

as a poker player, I can't tell you how many times I've been ahead with 1 card to come by 80%, 90% and still lost.

basically, people here don't have an appreciation of odds and variance wrt to sports.

about a year ago I had to try and convince people that the best team doesn't always win, and most people still didn't get it.

 

[80Brown]

Good points, but as far as I'm concerned that 45 yarder in the snow was the same as Roberts stealing second/Papi's big hits in the 04 ALCS , and just about anything Bird did in crunch time ever - without them your team goes home for the season. That is the very heart of "clutch".

 

[makewayhomer]

Good points, but as far as I'm concerned that 45 yarder in the snow was the same as Roberts stealing second/Papi's big hits in the 04 ALCS , and just about anything Bird did in crunch time ever - without them your team goes home for the season. That is the very heart of "clutch".

so Vinateiri has lost his magical, mystical ability to be clutch, right? I mean he missed a 29 yarder to win the game this week.

regardless of how old he is, this is a kick he still makes 95% of the time.

 

[Seacoast Fan]

Even though I hope AV misses every kick for the rest of his career...lol... I have no problem saying he is the greatest clutch field goal kicker of all time. As others point out, who else are you going to name? Its possible someone else will come along in the future, but for now, for me, its AV.
One other kick of his that I always thought was great, was the 48 yrdr. he hit against Pitt in the second AFCCG in Pittsburgh, the week after the Jets kicker (Hall?) missed a 48 yrdr. that would have sent Pitts. home. It was very early in the game, I believe the first time the Pats had the ball (after the turnover, I think) and he nailed it. I saw it not only as a field goal, but a message to the Steelers: You ain't playing the Jets no more...

 

[Patriot Missile]

Jeez, isn't it enough he missed two against us? Why try smearing his achievments in a Pat's uniform? He was great for us and he served his time here in a Pat's uni meritoriously.

I'm as glad as the next guy that he missed against OUR team but give me a break. Colts or Pats, he is the most clutch kicker of all time.

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

Because we all watched him for years and aren't going to suddenly turn on him because he's a Colt.

No one's perfect. That isn't the expectation. He has made so many big FGs in playoff games that were decided by his kicks.

Oh, and I would also add his 46 yard kick versus Tennessee in the 2003 Divisional Playoffs to that list.

That may be the greatest kick I have ever seen. 46 yards in, I believe, the coldest playoff game ever (NFL.com tells me it was 4 degrees). He kicked a frozen rock 46 yards with 4 minutes left to break a tie.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Even though I hope AV misses every kick for the rest of his career...lol... I have no problem saying he is the greatest clutch field goal kicker of all time. As others point out, who else are you going to name? Its possible someone else will come along in the future, but for now, for me, its AV.
One other kick of his that I always thought was great, was the 48 yrdr. he hit against Pitt in the second AFCCG in Pittsburgh, the week after the Jets kicker (Hall?) missed a 48 yrdr. that would have sent Pitts. home. It was very early in the game, I believe the first time the Pats had the ball (after the turnover, I think) and he nailed it. I saw it not only as a field goal, but a message to the Steelers: You ain't playing the Jets no more...

At the time I think it may have been the longest FG ever at the newly opened Heinz field which was/is notorious for crosswinds...

 

[Fencer]

He kicked a frozen rock 46 yards with 4 minutes left to break a tie.

No, to CREATE a tie.

That's why it was so important.

And of course it was more than 46 yards, because FG distances are always understated.

 

[patsox23]

THIS IS A RIDICULOUS THREAD. (There's been a lot of those lately.) I know some of you like to kill anyone who leaves the Patriots - especially AV going to, egads, the COLTS! - but give us a break.

Adam Vinatieri is a great guy, who was as responsible as anyone for helping the Pats to a Dynasty. Just because he's gone doesn't mean we have to engage in revisionist history. Can we PLEASE try not to be like all those other lame fan-bases?

 

[patsox23]

David Ortiz failed in plenty of potentially game-winning spots this season for the Red Sox. The definition of clutch is WORTHLESS if it only works for players who do it EVERY TIME. There's no such thing.

Adam is EASILY the greatest clutch kicker in the history of the universe. Who the Hell do you even think is SECOND???

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

No, to CREATE a tie.

That's why it was so important.

And of course it was more than 46 yards, because FG distances are always understated.

They won that game 17-14. It was 14-14 in the 4th when Vin hit that kick.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playb...Page=tab_play_by_play&season=2003&week=POST19

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Unfortunately for all the statistical advantages he should gain kicking for a dome team, the drawback could be the mentality of that team vs. the one he left and how that impacts him. Last year after being injured early he basically kicked them into the AFCC. From whence they were able to win a ring. This year he's been a little less consistent. And he's going to have to work through that on a team that seems more inclined to point fingers however subtley publicly and likely privately as well rather than being privately accountable while publicly maintaining each others backs. Here he had a tremendous support system who had such a strong belief in him as not just a kicker but a football player and playmaker (not to mention themselves as an organization). Now he's working with an organization with a very different mind set, a subtle inclination to panic under stress, some ego and temperement issues that can flash on and off the field with Manning and Polian, as well as a hugger coach who is third in the chain of command whose efforts to mitigate any appearance of discomfort with the kicker will (comparatively speaking) end up sounding more like damning him with faint praise. Whenever Adam's performance ilicited questions in the past, BB's succinct response was he's money and there is NO OTHER kicker I would rather have when a game is on the line. Bill never publicly acknowledges individual struggles anyway. Just won't go there. Kinda like you don't dignify a rumor by discussing it. If he felt compelled to comment at all he would likely point out all the other blown opportunities in that game like 6 picks and 2 kick returns for scores, and failure to execute a two point conversion not to mention poor coaching, questionable roster management, and situational confusion and clock mismanagement on the part of the HC.

Totally different management style to Indy where they tend to share feelings that perhaps are better privately held and managed in house. Unfortunately they do that to spin and deflect any potential criticism away from Manning and Polian, even if it means St. Dungy falling on the same sword some of his 52 other players are getting skewered with.

It will be interesting to watch this dynamic play out over the next several months into next season. Adam is likely to find himself in a situation he's never faced before where he's second on the list of excuses for failure behind injuries. And that may well effect his mental edge going forward. He never had the QB here wave him off the field, or a HC who wasn't fully prepared to execute situational football without concensus, let alone before a miss.

I also wonder if the asterisk talk has gotten to him, particularly since he's not part of the group responding to that on the field. And locker rooms being what they are, he's likely heard some maddening comments in his own locker room and certainly is aware of the Dungy commentary. That for him is tantamount to people he now works for and with putting an asterisk next to what was widely held to be the career of the second PK inducted into the HOF.

First I'll state that AV's previous kicks esp that in the snow bowl epitomize grace and performance under pressure. Unequaled. Clutch.

Moe's point about the difference in management styles speaks volumes. I'd also add that Dungy's laid back style might subtly affect the Vinitraitor as well. BB always tried to create competition and pushes players and coaches for excellence. A more relaxed atmosphere with less pressure could make AV just ever so slightly more complacent and less likely to push himself. Is it just me or do others think that AV looks like he's put on a few pounds?

The last point about the possibly insidious effect of overhearing current teammates disrespect previous Patriots rings could well have a caustic effect on his psyche.

Since he is dead to me, it's like watching a zombie kick out there in a funny costume.

 

[makewayhomer]

his clutch ability was always overstated; yes he made plenty of big kicks, but he missed some very big ones as well. don't give me this crap about "he made the ones that counted" b/c that would imply that he wasn't trying/concentrating/being as clutchy/as hard as he could in the SB vs Carolina, and that obviously wasn't the case.

it just so happened that the ones he made were at the right times; if he was capable of "raising his game to another level" when it mattered most, then there's no way he would have missed a 29 yarder to finish the game this week

 

[aluminum seats]

Let's not have revisionist history here--AV was always money, to the point where you didn't have the slightest nervousness at the end of games when he'd come in. And the tying kick against oakland was almost impossible to believe for longtime Pats fans.

 

[FrontSeven]

How do you make such a determination?

By witnessing the kicks.

If you witnessed the kicks and you still don't "get it" then you should go lay down - it's all over for you.

 

[Horace Ivory]

In Pete Carroll's last year, when the Pats went 8-8, I believe he missed 2 game winning FGs, one against KC and one against Buffalo. They cost the Pats the playoffs and Carroll his job.

Which actually worked out great for the Pats in the long run! Chalk one more important fact up for Adam.

Something that I've been thinking about lately is the fact that when Adam was here he was considered by his teammates not a kicker but a football player. That was something that he earned during his tenure with the Pats. I am sure that when he went to Indy he was once again seen by his teammates as "only" a kicker and I wonder how that might effect his mindset?

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

Well he did. I believe it was in the 90's 1998 I think.
He missed a kick against KC. Cost us the game and the playoffs I think.

'99 at Arrowhead-Pats were 4-0, and Bledsoe threw a 30 yard pass to ?Troy Brown? to the 18 yard line with seconds remaining. From there, it sure looked like the Pats were going to extend their unbeaten streak, until...

 

[solman]

By witnessing the kicks.

If you witnessed the kicks and you still don't "get it" then you should go lay down - it's all over for you.

I witnessed both his made and missed field goals, both in critical situations and otherwise.

In general, I didn't notice much difference in his demeanor before his misses and his demeanor before his makes.

 

[BadMoFo]

I must have read a dozen articles this week describing Adam Vinatieri as "the greatest clutch kicker in the history of the NFL" or something similar.

How do you make such a determination?

As nearly as I can tell this reputation comes from hitting kicks of:

45 yards to force OT in the snow
23 yards to win in the snow
48 yards to win in a dome
41 yards to win in a dome

Its not that I don't appreciate his performance. But what are the odds of an NFL kicker going 4-0 on those kicks? If all Field Goals were 80% likely to be successful, we'd expect this to happen 41% of the time.

Is there actually something special about Adam V. ?

Or is he a good kicker who happened to have above average luck on the four kicks that mattered most in his career.

Who has made more clutch kicks than him in the these types of games?

I know you're probably upset that he left us for the Colts, but get over it. ****, he's gone and he's not coming back. The good thing is that he missed two kicks for the Colts.

And he'll always be considered the most clutch kicker in the pros, so just be grateful for having him during that first Super Bowl run.

 

[bradmahn]

Let's not have revisionist history here--AV was always money, to the point where you didn't have the slightest nervousness at the end of games when he'd come in. And the tying kick against oakland was almost impossible to believe for longtime Pats fans.

No. No he wasn't. Big misses in the playoffs prove otherwise.

Being "clutch" is all about being faced with the opportunity, and while in New England he was. He was not always perfect in big games and he was not "always money." At the end of SB XXXVIII I was scared ****less. He had already missed one and had another blocked. I was most definitely not positive he was going to drill it.

But back to the opportunity to peform. When Vinatieri was here he took advantage of those opportunities (for the most part), but who's to say others couldn't have taken advantage given the same situation? Look at last year's playoffs. Gostkowski hit a GW against the Chargers, and if the Patriots defense could have prevented the Colts from scoring the final touchdown, Gost would have had the GW against the Colts in the AFCCG.

How much of being "clutch" is being on a team that provides for the scenario to prove your clutch ability?