Moss' legacy when compared to Jerry Rice

[Xzibit23]

I find it so funny when people on a goddamm message board make comments about Randy Moss; is work ethic, about him being a punk. You have NO IDEA who Randy Moss is, all you do is drink the anti-moss koolaid and regurtitate that bs on message boards. I'm a Vikings fan and I followed Moss in Minnesota as much as one can follo0w a player from afar. I know how 90% of what was said about him was sensationalized media BS, things like mooning, walking off with TWO SECONDS... so please just stop acting you like you know Moss, This thread isnt about who you lke better, its about the bottom line production of Moss vs. Rice on the field. If you want to discredit Moss n that regards, fine, just make it something concrete and not something stupid like "Rice never took plays off". If you reference that quote, all it tells me is that you're clueless about where, when, and why Moss said that, and all you know is the "experts" on ESPN have said it was very bad...so it must be true.

Also, regarding the last several posts taking shots at Moss, I really, really, really hope those were all trolls. If any of those posts were from a Pats fan, its just pathetic and sad after what Moss had done this year. Lemme guess, its all Brady??

 

[SteelerSteve]

I find it so funny when people on a goddamm message board make comments about Randy Moss; is work ethic, about him being a punk. You have NO IDEA who Randy Moss is, all you do is drink the anti-moss koolaid and regurtitate that bs on message boards. I'm a Vikings fan and I followed Moss in Minnesota as much as one can follo0w a player from afar. I know how 90% of what was said about him was sensationalized media BS, things like mooning, walking off with TWO SECONDS... so please just stop acting you like you know Moss, This thread isnt about who you lke better, its about the bottom line production of Moss vs. Rice on the field. If you want to discredit Moss n that regards, fine, just make it something concrete and not something stupid like "Rice never took plays off". If you reference that quote, all it tells me is that you're clueless about where, when, and why Moss said that, and all you know is the "experts" on ESPN have said it was very bad...so it must be true.

Also, regarding the last several posts taking shots at Moss, I really, really, really hope those were all trolls. If any of those posts were from a Pats fan, its just pathetic and sad after what Moss had done this year. Lemme guess, its all Brady??

Well said, I agree that you cant necessarily judge players work ethic but, I dont think Moss is the overall great that Jerry was.

 

[Xzibit23]

You can't compare Moss to Rice. I know you prefaced it by saying let's see what happens if he stays in NE for a few more years. But, still. Not even close. Moss pissed away more season than Rice pissed away games. Total professional vs immature modern athlete. He're a comparision in another sport.
That would be like saying Kobe is better than MJ. MJ did it his whole career. Well, at least until he came out of retirement to join washington. Kobe was his equal physically. But, nowhere near the drive/maturity of MJ. My .02

Pissed away more seasons?? ncluding this year, Moss has been in the NFL for 10 years. 8 of those 10 years have seen him surpass 1000 yards by a wide margin. Of the 2 seasons where he didnt hit 1000 yards, one of them(2004) was because he essentially missed FIVE games. Even though the oficial stats showed he missed 3 games, the 2 games prior he suited up and played 1 and 2 snaps respectively before the Vikings medical staff determined he couldnt go because he could further injure his partially torn hamstring. So that leaves exactly 1 season, last year, that he supposedly "pissed away", and he was on a team that had a pathetic Oline, a pathetic QB, and pathetic coaching.

Also, regarding you calling Moss the prototypical immature athlete, I have to ask are you really a Pats fan?? For you to be calling Moss an immature punk after what he's done this year for the Pats is a joke. He's produced on a historical level as a WR, he's the main reason why the Pats offense is historically great, and he's done all this while completely shunning all the accolades and staying out of the limelight or media, something an immature athlete would obvioulsy never do. Furthermore, the few times he's talked to the media he's deflected ALL the credit for NE's offense performance and his own individual success. Instad he's called Brady the best QB in the NFL, fhe's called Belichick the best coach in NFL history, and he's talked abot "humble pie" amd how the Pats haven't accomplished anything because there's only one goal. So how a true Pats could take those shots at Moss is beyond me, seriously, especially when Belichick and Brady have re[peatedly said he's not the person you read about in the papers, he's hard working, he's mature, he's intelligent, and he's selfless. .

 

[Patriot Missile]

Imo he will never be remembered for being the best All-Time WR but I really think he will be remembered as the most exciting player of all time....Now if he played in a Pats uniform his whole career then I think that would be another story.

 

[nokturnal]

Moss pissed away more season than Rice pissed away games.

which ones?

 

[Satchboogie3]

God some of you guys are just stupid. Opinions on Moss's Character has NOTHING to do with how good of a WR he is. The only thing that should be in this conversation are stats and athletic performance/preperation. In that respect, Moss has been just as good as Rice. Moss is probably the more talented one, he is one of the most athletic talents I have ever seen. From what I seen, Moss has an incredible work ethic.

Please don't be stupid and bring his character into discussion. You don't know who he actual is and it is completely irrelevent.

 

[Sivy]

Jerry Rice looks like that guy from conan o'brien, peiar, I think? ya know the one that sits in the recliner of rage and rants about stupid things.

 

[Zeus]

Not sure that these two players are directly comparable for a number of reasons.

Rice is every clearly among the all time greats. He performed at a higher level over a longer period of time than anyone. His advantage is that he played most of his career with QBs named Montana and Young. He was a precise route runner and an outstanding YAC receiver who was an integral part of an offense that dominated over a long period of time.

Moss has not enjoyed such good fortune with respect to QBs. During his rookie year, he was on the receiving end of Randall Cunningham's career season; the Vikings went 15-1 scoring 556 points, an NFL record that the Patriots hope to challlenge this season. After that, QBs with whom Moss has worked include Jeff George, Daunte Culpepper, Todd Bouman, Spergeon Wynn, Gus Frerrote, Andrew Walter, Aaron Brooks and Marques Tuiasosopo. No HOFers here.

Moss has rare skills - perhaps the best ever hands, feet and body control. No one has ever tracked the ball as well as Randy Moss. These skills allow him to be "open" even when double or triple covered. Can we say the same about any other receiver in the league today?

His legacy is yet unwritten and much will depend on the next 3-4 years. He has the opportunity to play on the 2 highest scoring offenses of all time - is that a coincidence?

It is interesting to wonder how Moss might have fared in the 49ers system which was so successful for so long. Perhaps in that environment, some of the maturity issues we have seen earlier in his career may never have surfaced. Even though the 30-year old Randy Moss may have lost a step, we are now witnessing what this amazingly skilled player is capable of with a great QB, a great scheme and a positive, structured environment.

 

[Fanfrom1960]

Well said, I agree that you cant necessarily judge players work ethic but, I dont think Moss is the overall great that Jerry was.

Jerry Rice was legendary for his work ethic, but he was no walk in the park when it came to being a great clubhouse guy or anything like that. I followed the 49ers during all of their great years, and Rice, believe it or not, did a lot of whining about getting the ball enough and getting the attention that Joe or Steve got. It was so bad during and after the 1988 season that I believe they purposely went to him almost exclusively in the super bowl (for which he won MVP), but the 49ers barely eked it out in the last 3 minutes with the length of field drive and TD pass to John Taylor. Stories about his whining were all over the San Jose Mercury News and the SF Chronicle (pre Internet days). The message was that he was jealous of Joe Montana, if you can believe that.

Rice was my least favorite player on all those teams that had Montana, Dwight Clark, Freddie Solomon, Fred Dean, John Taylor, Roger Craig, Russ Francis, Brent Jones, et al because, yeah, I'll say it, he was pretty selfish. All time great, no question, but a whiner and a self server. You could say that this is a common trait of a lot of wide receivers, I guess.

The reason I bring up all of this is because Moss is well known in his past for taking plays off, mooning goalposts to freak out Joe Buck, whatever, and everybody brings up Rice as the anti-Moss or something. Rice had his own faults, not the least of which was lack of any modicum of modesty.

 

[Spirit of '76]

Unfortunately, somehow time diminishes the 'greatness' of sports athletes. We hardly remember, Jim Thorpe, the greatest athlete of all time. Jim Brown's accomplishments have been greatly diminished and now we are doing the same to Jerry Rice.
I was fortunate enough to see him play his entire career. There is NO equal.
Someone tried to diminish his greatness by pointing out that he played with Montana. I defy anyone to find me a great WR that didn't have a good QB. It goes hand in hand.

Randy needs 11,200 more yds to catch Rice. Moss is only at 11, 624 now!
Moss needs 817 receptions to catch Rice. Moss only has 732 receptions now!
Moss needs 84 more TDs to catch Rice.

Rice was a BEAST. He ran perfect routes, had great speed, had soft hands and had hand/eye coordination 2nd to none. It wasn't just longevity that helped him. He could have retired several years earlier and still been the GOAT.


Hey, I'm enjoying Randy's year in NE. And I'm hoping it's for several more years.
But in no way, can I compare him or any other WR in the NFL to the GOAT, Jerry Rice.

 

[Spirit of '76]

Why do you think the Pats got him for a 4th rd pick? Is there *any* other team in the league where he would be a success after his two years in Oakland? Seriously.

Seriously?!?

How about Green Bay? The other team that tried to get him. He could have had Brett Favre throwing bombs to him.

So, yeah, there are other teams where he would have had success. And if you think about it, wouldn't a better question be.....Is there *any* other team in the league where he would NOT be a success after two years in Oakland?
He had such great QBs in Oakland throwing to him.

 

[Xzibit23]

Why do you think the Pats got him for a 4th rd pick? Is there *any* other team in the league where he would be a success after his two years in Oakland? Seriously.

Seriously?!?

How about Green Bay? The other team that tried to get him. He could have had Brett Favre throwing bombs to him.

So, yeah, there are other teams where he would have had success. And if you think about it, wouldn't a better question be.....Is there *any* other team in the league where he would NOT be a success after two years in Oakland?
He had such great QBs in Oakland throwing to him.

EXACTLY...while NE was probably the best place for Moss to thrive, along with maybe Indy, I think his return to greatness says more about how bad of a situation Oakland was. People are now acting like if Moss went to any ther team he would still be struggling, as if he wasn't a great player practically his whole career in MN. We're forgetting that the way his situation in NE is perfect, his situation in Oakland was equally imperfect. He had a QB who couldn't get him the ball, an OLine who gave said QB 0.5 seconds to throw it, and a coaching staff that was disfunctional and really just incompetent.

I think what we're seeing from Moss '06 vs. '07 are 2 ends of the spectrum. If he went to a Green Bay or really any decent team, he may not be approaching 20 TDs but he would've returned to an elite 14TD/1400 receiver. Moss' character issues are greatly exxagerated, he's portrayed as some time bomb that needs to be handled with care. You can never forgive a player for giving up, but d%#*!@t if you could, it would be for playing on last year's Raiders team.

 

[Satchboogie3]

I think Rice and Moss are close. If Moss goes on and plays for another 6 or 7 years in NE, he might be able to come closer (or maybe even surpase) Rice in TD receptions and end up with close to 2,000 yds.

Moss has been basically the same (a bit better), per game, so far in his career than Rice.
- Moss has averaged 79 yds a game, Rice 75 yds a game.
- Moss has averaged 15.9 yds per reception, Rice 14.8 yds per reception
- Moss has averaged .77TD per game, Rice .65TD per game
- Moss has averaged 12.3TD per season, Rice 10.4TD per season
- In less than 10 full season, Moss has recorded 17+TD twice and is on pace for over 20 this season. Rice recorded 17+TD in just 2 seasons out of just over 18 full seasons.
- Moss has averaged 3.92 YAC/REC, Rice 2.74 YAC/REC
- Moss has averaged
Right now, they are so close. You have to keep Rice #1 for right now, but if Moss puts up 6 or 7 more great years, he could catch up to Rice's career stats, maybe even surpase them.

So thats the statistic side of it.

They are both tremendous athletes. I would probably give Moss the edge in talent, but just barely. They both had the best hands in FB, they were both were the fastest guys on the field, both had incredibly jumping abilities. Moss is a bit taller at 6'4" vs 6'2" for Rice. Moss is the faster of the two, having ran out 4.25 40-yard dash during a scouting combine at Florida State. Thats second only to Deon Sanders, who recorded a 4.23 40. Jerry Rice ran a 4.7 40-yard dash while at Mississippi Valley State. Of course he was a bit faster than that, but that was the the speed he was clocked at during the scouting combine. Moss has the higher vertical jump at 40", Rice had a vertical jump listed at 37". As I said, both WR are extremely talented, but as far as athletic stats go, Moss is the clear winner.

What gives Rice the edge as the #1 WR in NFL history was his endurance. He played for 22 season, consistently putting up great numbers. If Moss can put up 6-7 more years of great numbers, then I might consider the #1 WR in NFL history. BUT, if I had to take one over the other, I would pick Moss, just because he is a bit more talented. We'll see how he does with aging.

 

[Nordy]

Jerry Rice is out of Moss' league, Moss is great at the jump ball and he can shred any db that I can think of and can regularly beat double coverage, having said that, look at jerry rice. He kept himself in perfect physical condition, he had awesome hands and could make spectacular one handed catches, but one of the reasons that he was so great was that he could alos get alot after the catch. I havent seen a reciever that stacks up to Rice, Harrison is a similar type of player, but imo he doesn't compare either.

Moss couldn't get a lot after the catch? Have you not watched Moss throughout his career or what? Moss would catch a WR screen and outrun the whole defense for a 50+ yard touchdown. Go find a Randy Moss highlight video and watch the short pass he takes down the sidelines against the Cowboys. Just out of this world. And Moss is the king of spectacular one-hand catches.

 

[cstjohn17]

To me it is like comparing another hockey player to Wayne Gretzky, or a baseball player to Babe Ruth.

Rice has 197 TDs, the next closest guy is at 130
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/misc/rct.htm

Gretzky has over 2800 points the next closest is around 1800.

Sure Mario Lemieux was flashy and very very skilled, in the end he ended up over 1100 points behind Gretzky.

I see Moss and Rice as a similar comparison, Moss is flashy and a dominating performer but still not in Rice's class as far as production.

 

[Zeus]

To me it is like comparing another hockey player to Wayne Gretzky, or a baseball player to Babe Ruth.

Rice has 197 TDs, the next closest guy is at 130
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/misc/rct.htm

Gretzky has over 2800 points the next closest is around 1800.

Sure Mario Lemieux was flashy and very very skilled, in the end he ended up over 1100 points behind Gretzky.

I see Moss and Rice as a similar comparison, Moss is flashy and a dominating performer but still not in Rice's class as far as production.

Moss: 113 TDs in 147 games (.769 TDs per game)

Rice: 197 TDs in 303 games (.650 TDs per game)

 

[Spirit of '76]

I think Rice and Moss are close. If Moss goes on and plays for another 6 or 7 years in NE, he might be able to come closer (or maybe even surpase) Rice in TD receptions and end up with close to 2,000 yds.

Moss has been basically the same (a bit better), per game, so far in his career than Rice.
- Moss has averaged 79 yds a game, Rice 75 yds a game.
- Moss has averaged 15.9 yds per reception, Rice 14.8 yds per reception
- Moss has averaged .77TD per game, Rice .65TD per game
- Moss has averaged 12.3TD per season, Rice 10.4TD per season
- In less than 10 full season, Moss has recorded 17+TD twice and is on pace for over 20 this season. Rice recorded 17+TD in just 2 seasons out of just over 18 full seasons.
- Moss has averaged 3.92 YAC/REC, Rice 2.74 YAC/REC
- Moss has averaged
Right now, they are so close. You have to keep Rice #1 for right now, but if Moss puts up 6 or 7 more great years, he could catch up to Rice's career stats, maybe even surpase them.

So thats the statistic side of it.

They are both tremendous athletes. I would probably give Moss the edge in talent, but just barely. They both had the best hands in FB, they were both were the fastest guys on the field, both had incredibly jumping abilities. Moss is a bit taller at 6'4" vs 6'2" for Rice. Moss is the faster of the two, having ran out 4.25 40-yard dash during a scouting combine at Florida State. Thats second only to Deon Sanders, who recorded a 4.23 40. Jerry Rice ran a 4.7 40-yard dash while at Mississippi Valley State. Of course he was a bit faster than that, but that was the the speed he was clocked at during the scouting combine. Moss has the higher vertical jump at 40", Rice had a vertical jump listed at 37". As I said, both WR are extremely talented, but as far as athletic stats go, Moss is the clear winner.

What gives Rice the edge as the #1 WR in NFL history was his endurance. He played for 22 season, consistently putting up great numbers. If Moss can put up 6-7 more years of great numbers, then I might consider the #1 WR in NFL history. BUT, if I had to take one over the other, I would pick Moss, just because he is a bit more talented. We'll see how he does with aging.

The only hole in your stats per game argument is that if you take away the last 3 seasons of Rice's stats, then his stats per game goes up tremendously. You are including the last few seasons he was just hanging on. Those seasons brought his stats per game down and didn't add a whole lot to his totals.

 

[bradmahn]

The only hole in your stats per game argument is that if you take away the last 3 seasons of Rice's stats, then his stats per game goes up tremendously. You are including the last few seasons he was just hanging on. Those seasons brought his stats per game down and didn't add a whole lot to his totals.

And if you take away Moss's years in Oakland, his will go up. Rice played those seasons, you can't discount them because they weren't up to par with the rest of his career.

 

[Zeus]

Let's compare Moss (career to date) with Rice for 1985-99. These are the years he spent with either Montana or Young as QB.

Moss: 147 games, 5.0 receptions per game, 79.1 yards per game, .769 TDs per game, 15.9 yards per actch.

Rice: 222 games, 5.4 receptions per game, 83.1 yards per game, .761 TDs per game, 15.3 yards per catch.

Even throwing out the non Montana/Young years, it's hard to argue that Rice is a lot more productive than Moss. And you do have to consider the fact that Randy operated at a considerable disadvantage when it comes to his QBs.

What Rice has that Moss does not is: 1) longevity and 2) jewelry. Rice certainly enjoys a better reputation but, as was pointed out earlier, had his own difficult personality quirks.

 

[Satchboogie3]

We'll longevity we don't know. We will see how long Moss can last. But statistically, they are about even through the prime years. I would probably take Moss over Rice, just for the fact that I believe he is slightly better athlete. (Faster, taller, better vertical, and in my opinion better hands.)

But because Rice was consistent for such a long time, he has to be #1, with Moss just behind him. For now.