Not necessarily stupid questions you were too afraid to ask

[Patsfanin Philly]

While we're on the stupid question subject, when an attempt at an on-sides kick is likely, why doesn't the return man just start making the fair catch signal before the ball is even kicked? Once he's made that signal, it doesn't matter who gets to the ball first, his team still keeps it. How come that can't be used to prevent an on-sides kick? Or have I just invented a new defensive tactic?

I am under the impression that an onsides kick has to touch the ground to be recovered by the kicking team, which is why they drive it into the ground to get the bounce. IIRC you can only call for a fair catch on a ball that hasn't hit the ground so it wouldn't work on an onsides kick that has already hit the ground.....

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

While we're on the stupid question subject, when an attempt at an on-sides kick is likely, why doesn't the return man just start making the fair catch signal before the ball is even kicked? Once he's made that signal, it doesn't matter who gets to the ball first, his team still keeps it. How come that can't be used to prevent an on-sides kick? Or have I just invented a new defensive tactic?

I'm no expert, but I don't think an on-sides kick is technically a normal kickoff. In a normal kickoff, if the kicking team recovers the ball (regardless of a fair catch signal or not), the ball still goes to the receiving team.

An on-sides kickoff is a special case where either team can receive the ball, but the kicking team can only receive it if it goes at least 10 yards. Waiving for a fair catch would only guarantee that the player could not be blasted if he sucessfully catches the ball... and since the ball has already bounced off the ground, I'm not even sure that is guaranteed in this instance.

 

[sieglo]

The truth is, Washington is in the somewhat in the same boat, albeit for less cash. Still, he's due to make close to 2M, for essentually a ST player that's way too much. I'm sure one and or both those guys will be asked to restructure to more reasonable deal. In terms of production in the system, Stallworth is probably closer to a 6M receiver than Kelly is to a 2M one, but still neither are worth that kinda coin.

My bet is probably Stalworth will be moving on. I hope not, but it's very possible.

I think Stallworth is worth $4.5.

Maybe he's sick of moving around and he'll stay.... You gotta settle down at some point.

 

[Flying Fungi]

I'm no expert, but I don't think an on-sides kick is technically a normal kickoff. In a normal kickoff, if the kicking team recovers the ball (regardless of a fair catch signal or not), the ball still goes to the receiving team.

An on-sides kickoff is a special case where either team can receive the ball, but the kicking team can only receive it if it goes at least 10 yards. Waiving for a fair catch would only guarantee that the player could not be blasted if he sucessfully catches the ball... and since the ball has already bounced off the ground, I'm not even sure that is guaranteed in this instance.

the fair catch ruling is for punts--not kickoffs

 

[sieglo]

the fair catch ruling is for punts--not kickoffs

Well, the question still remains how the kicking team can recover and gain possession on an onside kick without the receiving team ever touching the ball.

 

[Ethan 55]

You can call a fair catch on a kickoff, but a fair catch is disallowed once the ball touches the ground. So to prevent the other team from simply fair catching the ball (and the inability to touch the returner that comes with it), the kicking team drives the ball into the ground when kicking off.

Also, the ball is always up for grabs on any kickoff, not just an onside kick. On a ball kicked deep if the ball somehow eludes the returning team the kicking team can absolutely recover it. I believe once the ball goes into the end zone the kicking team can no longer recover it, even if they did it would be considered a touchback.

 

[MosisMooses]

Once the ball goes either goes 10 yards or is touched by the receiving team, it is live. If the kicking team grabs the ball in the end zone, it's a touchdown.

A fair catch can only be applied to a kick that hasn't touched the ground yet.

My question is whether or not the same "live ball" rule applies on a free kick following a safety.

 

[MDPATSFAN]

I've read a couple of references that we own the Raiders 2008 3rd round pick...If true, how did we obtain it?

 

[oldskool138]

While we're on the stupid question subject, when an attempt at an on-sides kick is likely, why doesn't the return man just start making the fair catch signal before the ball is even kicked? Once he's made that signal, it doesn't matter who gets to the ball first, his team still keeps it. How come that can't be used to prevent an on-sides kick? Or have I just invented a new defensive tactic?

The kickoff is a "free kick" that's why the kicking team can recover. Fair catching the kickoff gives the receiving team exclusive rights to the ball but they must catch it before it hits the ground. Since an on-side kick only stays in the air for about a second the fair catch really wouldn't give you any type of advantage.

 

[godef]

The kickoff is a "free kick" that's why the kicking team can recover. Fair catching the kickoff gives the receiving team exclusive rights to the ball but they must catch it before it hits the ground. Since an on-side kick only stays in the air for about a second the fair catch really wouldn't give you any type of advantage.

Not sure if that's quite right, if punt rules apply to kickoffs.

I saw a game once where a team did a surprise onside kick. The ball was kicked in the air on a line towards the sideline perhaps 15 yards downfield, catching the recieving team by surprise. The player on the kickoff team caught the ball on the fly (it never hit the ground). If that were a punt, it obviously belongs to the kick recieving team at the spot, but on a kickoff, it belongs to whoever gets it first. So I'm not sure how fair-catching a kickoff can apply.

 

[oldskool138]

Check this out for the kickoff fair catch debate...

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_you_fair_catch_a_kick_off

 

[Sunqueen212]

I've read a couple of references that we own the Raiders 2008 3rd round pick...If true, how did we obtain it?

It was part of the tuck rule package from '01. :bricks:

 

[Sunqueen212]

Eventhough I pride myself as a knowledgeable football fan (for a girl), I don't know the difference between a dime package and a nickel package. I think they are two types of defense and that's about it. And what's a nickel back? I've never heard of a dime back. There's no such thing right? And speaking of defenses, what is a cover-2? I would assume it has something to do with 2 corners covering receivers... :bricks: Boy, do I feel stupid.

 

[A.C Vegas]

Eventhough I pride myself as a knowledgeable football fan (for a girl), I don't know the difference between a dime package and a nickel package. I think they are two types of defense and that's about it. And what's a nickel back? I've never heard of a dime back. There's no such thing right?

The nickel package is a set with 5 defensive backs so the nickelback is the one added that is not normally there. the Dime Package is 6 DBs so the Dime back is the 6th one. the pats a few years ago invented somethindg that few teams have adpoted and that is the Quarter pakage which is 7 DBs. the "dime" and "nickel" back are not real postions just a name

And speaking of defenses, what is a cover-2? I would assume it has something to do with 2 corners covering receivers

a cover-2 defense involves typically the safteys the deep end of the field (typicalyy 15 yeads deep+) is cut in half and each saftey has one section of the field and the 3 corner are usually set up man to man on a reciver.

 

[Ethan 55]

Not sure if that's quite right, if punt rules apply to kickoffs.

I saw a game once where a team did a surprise onside kick. The ball was kicked in the air on a line towards the sideline perhaps 15 yards downfield, catching the recieving team by surprise. The player on the kickoff team caught the ball on the fly (it never hit the ground). If that were a punt, it obviously belongs to the kick recieving team at the spot, but on a kickoff, it belongs to whoever gets it first. So I'm not sure how fair-catching a kickoff can apply.

You rarely ever see a kickoff fair caught for two reasons.

1) It's kicked down field and the returner has plenty of time to catch it and return it for a gain.
2) On an onside kick, either the ball hits the ground first because it's a rebound kick, or it's a surprise and the upman who catches it gets caught off guard and doesn't think to do it.

I've seen a few kickoffs fair caught when they're "half-kicked" to someone like a LB or TE playing halfway. This is usually done to avoid the risk of someone who doesn't often carry the ball fumbling, or to preserve time, as those kicks usually come at the end of a half when the kicking team doesn't want the returner to get a chance to run one back, but doesn't want to give the ball over at the 40 or 50 on a squib kick. Also, it's becoming common in Bears games as well I think, to deny Hester a shot at the ball.