Colts want NFL to Explain

[He Ban Me]

I imagine dungy is correct that it's often not called.

I think it's very hard for an official to pull the flag on that play -- how can you ever be sure that the player was trying to simulate a snap to draw a penalty. I've seen this called before, and most of the time it happens, it's because the simulating action actually works and draws the defender to cross the line and make contact or be unabated to the quarterback.

In those situations, the ref has no choice but to make a hard decision and decide whether it really was "simulating" the snap. If the same thing happens in the middle of the field in a non critical situation and no defender is drawn offsides, I would imagine most refs just keep the flag in their pockets on a no harm no foul analysis.

I have no problem with that. The problem here is that the ref knows exactly what the colts were trying to do. There's no guess work. The player made an abrupt motion to try to simulate the snap. While you might give the offensive player the benefit of the doubt on this play in most circumstances, when a team is facing 4th down with a chip shot field goal, down by 2, with under 2 minutes to go in the game, the ref is permitted to take that into account and reason that they have no desire to snap the ball and are lining up PRECISELY to simulate a snap.

The other thing that's absurd is that the colts were either going to take a 5-yard penalty anyway (for delay) OR they were going to use the very time out that Dungy apologized to his team for taking. They were NOT going to snap the ball, and they didn't have time to run the FG unit onto the field, so those were the only two options.

This is exactly what I spoke of earlier, or in another thread.

 

[bradmahn]

Yeah someone posted it in another thread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPP4iyNE0RQ&NR=1

Hahahaha.

That's awesome. That was pretty much the NFL's polite way of telling the world "Nope, the Colts are stupid for bi tching about that penalty, especially their announcer."

I'm still laughing.

 

[LiveShot]

Hey Tony-----------Adam blew it, Adam Blew it, Adam blew it and you don't have any depth so Polian blew it also.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Regardless of the team, I hate excuses. The reason they lost wasn't one potentially questionable call. It was their horrendous offensive performance and the failure of their kicker. .

Actually their entire special teams operation

From the article"
>>>>>>Colts have yielded seven punt and kickoff return touchdowns in their past 26 games, including playoffs. They have scored none.They rank 32nd in punt return coverage, yielding an average of 21.1 yards, and 24th in kickoff coverage at 25.8. They are 21st in punt returns at 7.7 and 22 in kickoff returns at 22.4.
Dungy declined to blame the problems on the team's many injuries but acknowledged they had a "trickle-down effect."
"You're dealing with a lot of guys who haven't done it," he said. "Not everybody has run down and covered kicks and tried to figure out where the blockers are coming and where the return's going and doing it at full speed. Most of these guys haven't done it in college, even. It's learning as you go and a little bit of a trickle-down effect. >>>>>>>>

Training camp was three and a half months ago...You have a special teams coach to coach this stuff. It might work on weeks one or two but by now there is no excuse......

 

[bradmahn]

Actually their entire special teams operation

From the article"
>>>>>>Colts have yielded seven punt and kickoff return touchdowns in their past 26 games, including playoffs. They have scored none.They rank 32nd in punt return coverage, yielding an average of 21.1 yards, and 24th in kickoff coverage at 25.8. They are 21st in punt returns at 7.7 and 22 in kickoff returns at 22.4.
Dungy declined to blame the problems on the team's many injuries but acknowledged they had a "trickle-down effect."
"You're dealing with a lot of guys who haven't done it," he said. "Not everybody has run down and covered kicks and tried to figure out where the blockers are coming and where the return's going and doing it at full speed. Most of these guys haven't done it in college, even. It's learning as you go and a little bit of a trickle-down effect. >>>>>>>>

Training camp was three and a half months ago...You have a special teams coach to coach this stuff. It might work on weeks one or two but by now there is no excuse......

Especially when it was a serious problem all of last season. Most coaches would see that as a point of emphasis in the offseason.

 

[SpiderFox53]

I think you are right, it all centered on Utecht's movement. Too obvious, but Dungy was arguing that it was legal, they had run out of it before. In the end, all around stupid play. Although defenses have screwed that up before, I think they knew there was no way they were going to hike the ball. The problem with the entire thing is that eventually, they were going to have to call a T.O. They should have had enough forethought to realize AV could miss, and that 3 TO's would be crucial in trying to get ball back. Too bad Addai's run didn't come before the 2 minute warning, then no review

The funniest part of the whole damn thing, is that if there had been no penalty, there would have been no miss. The kick just missed and if he had kicked it from 5 yards closer, it would have gone between the uprights instead of wide right.

 

[JJDChE]

Give me a break. The original Addai spot was TERRIBLE and the Utecht penalty was plain as day. Please don't tell me he wasn't trying to draw someone offsides with that abrupt movement out of his stance. That's the definition of the penalty.

 

[psychoPat]

Actually their entire special teams operation

From the article"
>>>>>>.... Dungy declined to blame the problems on the team's many injuries but acknowledged they had a "trickle-down effect."
"You're dealing with a lot of guys who haven't done it," he said. "Not everybody has run down and covered kicks and tried to figure out where the blockers are coming and where the return's going and doing it at full speed. Most of these guys haven't done it in college, even. It's learning as you go and a little bit of a trickle-down effect. >>>>>>>>

Training camp was three and a half months ago...You have a special teams coach to coach this stuff. It might work on weeks one or two but by now there is no excuse......

It's just part of the Colts' way of life ...
b1tchin ... whining ... excuses.
Along with pressure, intimidation, league legislation, skipping town in the dark.
All just components in their "comprehensive approach to football"!

Bob Kraft's organization doesn't do anything like
... any o' that ****.

 

[PatriotsReign]

I always thought that you couldn't have more than one person in motion at any one time. On that play in particular, they had 3 people moving. Utecht moving away from the line. Moorehead (?) moving up. And Fletcher going in motion.

Also, Utecht never came UP out of his stance.. He hopped straight back. I believe that is also not a valid movement. I think if Utecht had come UP out of his stance and then reset, I believe he'd have been fine.

For those of you who have played football, you know when an offensive lineman steps back and sharply snaps his outside shoulder back, it is to set himself up to pass block. That is exactly what the inside receiver (tight end?) did Sunday night. Watch it again and you'll see he did not just stand up and step back as he should have. He straightened out quickly from his down position while snapping his shoulder back...and then he repositioned himself.

To the trained eye, it's not even debateable. He intentionally attempted to draw the defense off-side.

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

Yeah someone posted it in another thread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPP4iyNE0RQ&NR=1

Thank you. That was hilarious.

 

[patpatriot]

To the trained eye, it's not even debateable. He intentionally attempted to draw the defense off-side.

Do you mean that he actually (gasp) CHEATED!

the horror...the horror

 

[Bostonian1962]

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.d...=/0fayuVrTMtwsjDSVjIxeEpqVX+GLbJgO3ibEAodF2A=

this is quite funny considering how the pats game was called.

That is INCREDIBLE! INCREDIBLE!!

Well, I hope the league also explains why in crunch time, Manning was about to be sacked, in the pocket, and fired the ball to nobody into the ground. It was intentional grounding, at a key time in the game, NO CALL.

Maybe they'll point that out, and the other games over the last two years, and tell the Colts to SHUT UP! San Diego is the only team in the NFL that whines more. It just never stops.

 

[VJCPatriot]

For those of you who have played football, you know when an offensive lineman steps back and sharply snaps his outside shoulder back, it is to set himself up to pass block. That is exactly what the inside receiver (tight end?) did Sunday night. Watch it again and you'll see he did not just stand up and step back as he should have. He straightened out quickly from his down position while snapping his shoulder back...and then he repositioned himself.

To the trained eye, it's not even debateable. He intentionally attempted to draw the defense off-side.

The Colts just got too tricky and ended up hurting themselves. They only have themselves to blame. All they had to do was 'trust' in AV and let him line up the 51 yard field goal. Instead they tried to gain an advantage by trying to draw the defense offsides. Instead they got caught by the refs and drew the flag. Hey Colts if you need someone to blame for that loss just look in the MIRROR.

 

[indycolts685]

They bleeping suck! They should have kicked the FG and won the game right there. No need for a classless "trying to draw them offside" play. The Colts and their fans should be questioning the play calling and not the officiating.

They really wanted to get that first down, because then they could run the clock down to nothing and kick the fg and win, with Freeney hurt at the time I think maybe they weren't as conifident in the defense to stop the Bolts if we had kicked the fg and only went up 1, with 1:30 left in the game, but the way the Colts played they didn't deserve to win...Dungy is making a big deal out of the penalty because the nfl told him it was legal and they have run it many times with no penalty. Im not making excuses, we lost on Mannings crappy play with the 6 int's and two missed FG's and special teams..

 

[40yrpatsfan]

I never paid too much heed in the past to the claims that the Colts were crybabies to the league, trying to use their influence, etc. But this episode was an eye-opener.

Instead of being embarrassed at trying a bush league maneuver to draw a player offsides, Dungy has the balls to complain to the league about the call! He should be hiding his head somewhere and hope the whole stupid move blows over.

There really is no limit to their arrogance.

 

[Metaphors]

They really wanted to get that first down, because then they could run the clock down to nothing and kick the fg and win, with Freeney hurt at the time I think maybe they weren't as conifident in the defense to stop the Bolts if we had kicked the fg and only went up 1, with 1:30 left in the game, but the way the Colts played they didn't deserve to win...Dungy is making a big deal out of the penalty because the nfl told him it was legal and they have run it many times with no penalty. Im not making excuses, we lost on Mannings crappy play with the 6 int's and two missed FG's and special teams..

"No player of offensive team may charge or move abruptly, after assuming set position, in such manner as to lead defense to believe snap has started."

There is no way the NFL told Dungy that it was OK to have his TE move abruptly, after assuming a set position, in a way that looked exactly like he was getting ready to pass block, during a game situation when EVERYONE ON THE PLANET knew they weren't going to snap the ball.

As for re-spotting the ball, the replay was clear that the ball never reached the 6 yard line. Since the original spot was past the 6 yard line and just barely gave the Colts a 1st down (a potentially game-changing situation), the ref did exactly the right thing.

Dungy has every right to complain about the quick whistle on the end zone interception. The Colts got hosed on that one and we'll never know how far the runback would have gone if the whistle didn't blow. Once the whistle blew, the ref had no choice but to spot it at the 20.

I hope they let this go since there is nothing good that can come of it. If the Colts continue to press this issue, we will have to see if Mangini has an extra tinfoil hat in Dungy's size.

 

[PatsSteve1]

"No player of offensive team may charge or move abruptly, after assuming set position, in such manner as to lead defense to believe snap has started."

IMO, this is what the penalty was for. I think we've all seen a team start in 1 formation and then shift out of it at the snap. Like start in a tight formation and then shift out to 3 wide and a TE maybe shift to the other side for instance. But you can't have a guy do it in such an abrupt manner that it was obvious what he was trying to do.

 

[ALP]

funny how the illegal snap count by the colts D is not mentioned anywhere...not even by Dungy...was he even asked about it???

 

[sieglo]

IMO, this is what the penalty was for. I think we've all seen a team start in 1 formation and then shift out of it at the snap. Like start in a tight formation and then shift out to 3 wide and a TE maybe shift to the other side for instance. But you can't have a guy do it in such an abrupt manner that it was obvious what he was trying to do.

And it wasn't just one guy either. It was a calculated move by THREE Colts players simultaneously, including the center who bobbed his head in sync with the TE shift.

******* cheap ass, cheating ass Colts.

 

[indycolts685]

"No player of offensive team may charge or move abruptly, after assuming set position, in such manner as to lead defense to believe snap has started."

There is no way the NFL told Dungy that it was OK to have his TE move abruptly, after assuming a set position, in a way that looked exactly like he was getting ready to pass block, during a game situation when EVERYONE ON THE PLANET knew they weren't going to snap the ball.

As for re-spotting the ball, the replay was clear that the ball never reached the 6 yard line. Since the original spot was past the 6 yard line and just barely gave the Colts a 1st down (a potentially game-changing situation), the ref did exactly the right thing.

Dungy has every right to complain about the quick whistle on the end zone interception. The Colts got hosed on that one and we'll never know how far the runback would have gone if the whistle didn't blow. Once the whistle blew, the ref had no choice but to spot it at the 20.

I hope they let this go since there is nothing good that can come of it. If the Colts continue to press this issue, we will have to see if Mangini has an extra tinfoil hat in Dungy's size.

Yeah I really didn't have any complaints about the penalty at the end, I am pretty sure they made the right call, now maybe Dungy will quit screwing around. My only complaint was on the INT and the quick whistle, your right they had no choice but to spot it at the 20 after that.

I have no problem with the spot of the ball late in the game right before the missed FG either as the replay clearly showed him short of the 6 yard line.

I can't confirm this but I read somewhere that Dungy was mad about the spot because he said the Colts had 1st down just outside the 16 yard line, so they should have gotten a 1st down just outside the 6 yard line which they did reach..now I don't know if this is true as I didn't dvr the game..