Bye Week Thoughts

[Oswlek]

If there was ever a game that neither team deserved to win, it was the Colts/Bolts game. Indy was by a wide margin the better team - despite their numerous injuries - but they made just enough stupid plays and SD made their big plays count enough to pull off the upset.

* That SD team is almost unwatchable. They were completely discumbobulated. They had absolutely no cohesion on offense and their defense (other than an emotion fueled fast start) was nearly uselss. Their pass rush was nonexistant and I saw numerous plays where it appeared as if guys were interfering with each others' rushing lanes. Just a really strange game that a defense that played so poorly for much of the game could pick Manning 6 times.

* More stupid play - what was Cromartie thinking running that int out of the EZ? SD had Indy on its heals at that point and the 14 yards of field position was huge. I hate to repeat myself, but that team just looks so uncoordinated it is silly.

* And what happened to Phillip Rivers? Wasn't he a promisiing young QB just one season ago? He was dreadful in that game. He has no idea when to use touch and when to fire it in and his throws were just sprayed all over the field. What the hell was he thinking on that grounding toss just before halftime? Franlkly, it was to the point that I was almost beginning to feel sorry for him he was so terrible.

* Was it me, or was Freeney being held out there constantly? I found it humorous when they showed a close up replay on McNeil's blocking technique and it was blatant holding, with Madden/Michaels talking about the great form.

* Can someone explain to me how the Gates play at the end wasn't PI? The defender never once looks back and he runs right into Gates and keeps him from coming back on the ball. Wasn't he playing the receiver instead of the ball? I don't get it.

* Before anyone gets too crazy about Manning's "heroric" performance, I just wanted to point out that the playmakers for Indy yesterday were significantly better than who NE was trotting out there all last year and just as good as who NE had out there in 2005 as well. Manning is entitled to having a bad game - he is human after all - without people talking about him being overrated. But that offense wasn't anywhere near as neutered as people would have you believe.

(Side note: Had Indy's OL reshuffling caused any noticable drop in pass protection, I would agree with it. But SD was hardly anywhere near Manning and I thought the OL performed admirably. I would also agree that the 2001 NE offense was probably the least tallented of the bunch, but I want to compare the offenses at their peak QB performance.)

* I was thinking this weekend before the games about how I wanted Indy/Pitt to be some combination of 2/3. They are clearly the biggest two threats to NE and having them have to go through each other first is a huge help to the Pats' SB chances. Check and check. Despite Indy's recent struggles, I don't see how TN or Jax threaten Indy and Pitt as almost as assured of a division title as NE is. Obviously I would rather neither even make it, but without that possibility, I like what is happening.

* Which brings us to Pitt. They are who they have always been. If they can get pressure, their defense looks awesome. Without it, they are average at best. I know that a pass rush is crucial for all good defenses, but I liken Pitt to Dallas; they go from being incredible to mediocre/poor very quickly if the QB has time. Frankly, I am not all that worried about them at all, now that I saw them play a good offense with a decent OL.

* Even more so, had Cleveland had a single plus player on the DL or in the OLBs, they win that game handily. From what I saw, not one standard pass rusher for the Browns is even average at that task. And they ranged from average to terrible at stopping the run as well. Pitt was allowed to convert far too many long third downs because of the absence of any pressure.

* Something I noticed in both the Pitt and Indy games was just how consistently receivers were left uncovered at the sticks on third down. It seemed that both the Cleveland and SD defenses would just keep dropping guys back to the point that one or two receivers had plenty of space to catch the ball for the first down. Multiple times I saw receivers catch the ball at the line and the MLB comes running in from 5 yards deeper to make the tackle. What is the point of this coverage? Isn't the goal to stop the first down? Sure you need to limit big plays, but the surest way to give up points is the have your closest coverage guys 5 yards beyond the marker. Just really strange. Even making things worse was the fact that it wasn't like some unknown FB was making these catches. I saw similar type coverage on Wayne and Ward first downs.

* BTW, McGinnest is done; just complete toast. He gest nowhere near the QB, he doesn't set the edge well anymore and he was beaten to the outside repeatedly yesterday - even by Davenport. If RAC doesn't just load up on DL and OLB next year I will be very surprised.

 

[ironwasp]

Typically strong analysis. Thanks

Sorry to hear about Willie, he's just about my favourite Patriot ever. If he's done I hope packs it in at the end of the season.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I'd note that Manning's terrible game came in inclement weather outside a dome. Indy is a team built for a dome. Were they good enough to come to Foxboro for the AFCCG, they'll face more bad conditions. Stick a fork in 'em.

At least the sound won't be bad at Foxboro since the effete yuppie corporate pukes own all the red seats and many others. They head inside in bad weather. The corporate wankers who sit near me each week never make any noise. It's impolite.

 

[Oswlek]

But those who are bashing Maroney need to look at the game Joseph just had. It was the first time that he faced a team not in nickle for most of the game and he goes for 56 yards on 22 rushes.

This not an indictment of Addai. This is just pointing out that RBs will look better if they are surrounded by awesome talent.

 

[BelichickFan]

* Even more so, had Cleveland had a single plus player on the DL or in the OLBs, they win that game handily. From what I saw, not one standard pass rusher for the Browns is even average at that task.

I want to know what happened to Kamerion Wimbley - he had 11 sacks in 15 games last year and has 3 in 9 games this year.

The bonehead move, I'm afraid, goes to Romeo. He called timeout to decide if he wanted to challenge Pitt's winning TD then challenged and lost. Two timeouts gone on one play and the final drive you're losing plays by spiking the ball to stop the clock. Don't call timeout to decide if you want to challenge, just challenge - worst case ? You lose a timeout.

 

[bradmahn]

If there was ever a game that neither team deserved to win, it was the Colts/Bolts game. Indy was by a wide margin the better team - despite their numerous injuries - but they made just enough stupid plays and SD made their big plays count enough to pull off the upset.

* BTW, McGinnest is done; just complete toast. He gest nowhere near the QB, he doesn't set the edge well anymore and he was beaten to the outside repeatedly yesterday - even by Davenport. If RAC doesn't just load up on DL and OLB next year I will be very surprised.

Just one caveat to your first point: if ever there were a game both teams could lose, this was that game.

And I wholeheartedly agree about Willie Mac. On more than one occasion he was absolutely blown up by the TE. Taken completely out of the play, he lacks the speed to make up for such poor position. He is consistently two steps away from the play. He is still mentally there, he just lacks the ability to do anything with it now.

 

[Oswlek]

I'd note that Manning's terrible game came in inclement weather outside a dome. Indy is a team built for a dome. Were they good enough to come to Foxboro for the AFCCG, they'll face more bad conditions. Stick a fork in 'em.

At least the sound won't be bad at Foxboro since the effete yuppie corporate pukes own all the red seats and many others. They head inside in bad weather. The corporate wankers who sit near me each week never make any noise. It's impolite.

I don't have good seats when I get to the game, but the same thing happens near me. I'm yelling a screaming and guys in from of me (section 303 row 11) are turning around and contemplating asking me to stop.

 

[Oswlek]

Just one caveat to your first point: if ever there were a game both teams could lose, this was that game.

And I wholeheartedly agree about Willie Mac. On more than one occasion he was absolutely blown up by the TE. Taken completely out of the play, he lacks the speed to make up for such poor position. He is consistently two steps away from the play. He is still mentally there, he just lacks the ability to do anything with it now.

Did I type win?

What the hell was I thinking?

Edit: I was right, I was right,I was right,I was right,I was right,I was right, I was riiiiiiiiiiight!

If there was ever a game that neither team deserved to win

 

[bradmahn]

Did I type win?

What the hell was I thinking?

Edit: I was right, I was right,I was right,I was right,I was right,I was right, I was riiiiiiiiiiight!

You didn't say either one of them should have won it... I just don't think either one of these teams even deserved a tie.

 

[Oswlek]

You didn't say either one of them should have won it... I just don't think either one of these teams even deserved a tie.

No, I said that neither deserved to win, ergo, both deserved a loss.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Cleveland had the right scheme on defense. Not the talent. They wanted their ends to go upfield. Then use their DT's to get a push. Their DT's are slower than molasses. They didn't get that push needed. Something we don't have to worry about with Seymour and Warren pushing that pocket back. I thought Cleveland's zone blitzes were successful. They got pressure on Pitt without having to go to the all out blitz. They got worn down But, they were ranked last in defense I believe going into the game.

 

[Oswlek]

Cleveland had the right scheme on defense. Not the talent. They wanted their ends to go upfield. Then use their DT's to get a push. Their DT's are slower than molasses. They didn't get that push needed. Something we don't have to worry about with Seymour and Warren pushing that pocket back. I thought Cleveland's zone blitzes were successful. They got pressure on Pitt without having to go to the all out blitz. They got worn down But, they were ranked last in defense I believe going into the game.

I agree. I never criticized RAC, just the "standard pass rushers". You broke it down into more specifics, but we said essentially the same thing. The zone blitzers did a nice job but the OLBs and DLs were useless.

 

[BelichickFan]

Cleveland had the right scheme on defense. Not the talent.

The Browns are an interesting contrast to the Patriots, having drafted LB (like Savage saw in Baltimore) and not DL. We're the opposite. Wimbley, Jackson (who was out yesterday), Thompson, Williams, all 4th round or higher picks and Peek was a medium FA signing. Meanwhile their DL had gotten nothing. Zip. I keep waiting for them to put some picks into the DL but Savage seems to like the cheap big bodies there; it's not working out too well.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I don't have good seats when I get to the game, but the same thing happens near me. I'm yelling a screaming and guys in from of me (section 303 row 11) are turning around and contemplating asking me to stop.

I'm in the 1st row behind the Pats defensive bench. To my right are a dozen corporate seats. Each week a different clade of corporate ass kissing zombies attends the game. Usually they spend most of the 3rd quarter geting food and drink but when they are in their seats they just sit and watch. No noise whatsoever when the other team has the ball. I'm incredulous.

 

[Oswlek]

BTW, one more thing. When did Quinn Gray become a halfway decent QB? He was embarrassingly awful in the Indy game, but he has been alright since then.

 

[psychoPat]

....
The bonehead move, I'm afraid, goes to Romeo. He called timeout to decide if he wanted to challenge Pitt's winning TD then challenged and lost. Two timeouts gone on one play and the final drive you're losing plays by spiking the ball to stop the clock. Don't call timeout to decide if you want to challenge, just challenge - worst case ? You lose a timeout.

Now THAT is deep analysis
... the kind you rarely find in print
and never hear spoken by well-known "analysts" on tv.

 

[ayjackson]

good post!

I loved Romeo running out on the field with the challenge flag - that was classic theatre!

the Cowboys are the only team that can stop us when healthy. I think they are a better team than when we played them. Their corners, Henry and Newman, are healthier. Ellis and Spencer are both playing better opposite Ware. Tank Johnson has been added to the nose. And Canty/Spears/Hatcher are getting better too. Their weak spot continues to be Hamlin/Williams in coverage.

I still think they're a notch below us, but I think they're better than the Colts or anything else the AFC has to offer.

Add two first round draft picks next year, and the continuing maturation of their front seven, and they may be looking as dominating as us.

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

If there was ever a game that neither team deserved to win, it was the Colts/Bolts game. Indy was by a wide margin the better team - despite their numerous injuries - but they made just enough stupid plays and SD made their big plays count enough to pull off the upset.

* That SD team is almost unwatchable. They were completely discumbobulated. They had absolutely no cohesion on offense and their defense (other than an emotion fueled fast start) was nearly uselss. Their pass rush was nonexistant and I saw numerous plays where it appeared as if guys were interfering with each others' rushing lanes. Just a really strange game that a defense that played so poorly for much of the game could pick Manning 6 times.

* More stupid play - what was Cromartie thinking running that int out of the EZ? SD had Indy on its heals at that point and the 14 yards of field position was huge. I hate to repeat myself, but that team just looks so uncoordinated it is silly.

* And what happened to Phillip Rivers? Wasn't he a promisiing young QB just one season ago? He was dreadful in that game. He has no idea when to use touch and when to fire it in and his throws were just sprayed all over the field. What the hell was he thinking on that grounding toss just before halftime? Franlkly, it was to the point that I was almost beginning to feel sorry for him he was so terrible.

Denver must have really had an off game when San Diego went up there and smacked them. The Chargers look absolutely mediocre. Their offense is a mess, Rivers has regressed horribly and the D can't do squat if Merriman and Philips aren't bringing the heat. Castillo's return will help that D (once he left the Vikings game, that's when ADP went wild), but still it won't turn them into world-beaters.

* Was it me, or was Freeney being held out there constantly? I found it humorous when they showed a close up replay on McNeil's blocking technique and it was blatant holding, with Madden/Michaels talking about the great form.

Along with Rivers, McNeil has also regressed this year. He looked like the AFC's mainstay at LT in the Pro Bowl for the next 12 years last year, but that's clearly not the case this year.

* Before anyone gets too crazy about Manning's "heroric" performance, I just wanted to point out that the playmakers for Indy yesterday were significantly better than who NE was trotting out there all last year and just as good as who NE had out there in 2005 as well. Manning is entitled to having a bad game - he is human after all - without people talking about him being overrated. But that offense wasn't anywhere near as neutered as people would have you believe.

I think you're overstating things, especially the 2005 comparison, but not by much. Yes, Wayne and Addai are better than anybody the Pats had trotted out at their respective positions in 2005 & 2006 (although 2005 Branch is close to Wayne). But Moorehead looked completely lost last night. Without Clark, the TEs were not scaring anyone. Their #3 WR fresh off the practice squad wasn't a serious threat. I'll take 2005's Branch/Givens/Watson/Dillon over Wayne/Moorehead/no-name TEs/Addai. I probably take last night's combo over the Pats' 2006 offensive players, though, but not by a wide margin.

* I was thinking this weekend before the games about how I wanted Indy/Pitt to be some combination of 2/3. They are clearly the biggest two threats to NE and having them have to go through each other first is a huge help to the Pats' SB chances. Check and check. Despite Indy's recent struggles, I don't see how TN or Jax threaten Indy and Pitt as almost as assured of a division title as NE is. Obviously I would rather neither even make it, but without that possibility, I like what is happening.

Indy won't lose the rest of the way. Pitt will lose in NE, so Colts will be #2.

* Which brings us to Pitt. They are who they have always been. If they can get pressure, their defense looks awesome. Without it, they are average at best. I know that a pass rush is crucial for all good defenses, but I liken Pitt to Dallas; they go from being incredible to mediocre/poor very quickly if the QB has time. Frankly, I am not all that worried about them at all, now that I saw them play a good offense with a decent OL.

* Even more so, had Cleveland had a single plus player on the DL or in the OLBs, they win that game handily. From what I saw, not one standard pass rusher for the Browns is even average at that task. And they ranged from average to terrible at stopping the run as well. Pitt was allowed to convert far too many long third downs because of the absence of any pressure.

The Dallas comparison is apt. I think the Pats will score a-plenty on them because they'll be able to block the Steelers rush. The Steelers O gives me a bit of pause, though, because Roethlisberger does a good job spreading the ball around and makes good use of Heath Miller. I don't think they can hang with the Pats scoring-wise, though.

* BTW, McGinnest is done; just complete toast. He gest nowhere near the QB, he doesn't set the edge well anymore and he was beaten to the outside repeatedly yesterday - even by Davenport. If RAC doesn't just load up on DL and OLB next year I will be very surprised.

This was sad to watch. He is so sllllooooowwww. I thought he had a rough game vs. the Pats, but that Steelers game was ugly for him.

Regards,
Chris

 

[Oswlek]

I think you're overstating things, especially the 2005 comparison, but not by much. Yes, Wayne and Addai are better than anybody the Pats had trotted out at their respective positions in 2005 & 2006 (although 2005 Branch is close to Wayne). But Moorehead looked completely lost last night. Without Clark, the TEs were not scaring anyone. Their #3 WR fresh off the practice squad wasn't a serious threat. I'll take 2005's Branch/Givens/Watson/Dillon over Wayne/Moorehead/no-name TEs/Addai. I probably take last night's combo over the Pats' 2006 offensive players, though, but not by a wide margin.


Indy won't lose the rest of the way. Pitt will lose in NE, so Colts will be #2.

Regards,
Chris

I consider Moorehead to be on par with Caldwell/Gafney with Brown grading out slightly ahead when healthy early in the year and about the same later. The Oak WR (name gone from my mind) was equal with Thorpe or whatever random TE you want to compare. Watson missed 4 games last year as did Maroney, who was still hurt when he returned it now seems. I still stand by my comments 2006. I think that we have Brady to thank for even thinking it is a discussion.

As for 2005, you forget that Dillon was hurt most of the year, and Faulk/Pass both missed most of the year as well. The run game was nonexistant. I don't think that Wayne is all that close to Branch and I think that time has proven that Givens was a NE creation. I'm willing to conceed that Brady had more time with these guys that gives him an advantage, but I still don't believe the *talent* disparity to be all that far off.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

good post!

I loved Romeo running out on the field with the challenge flag - that was classic theatre!

The announcer quipped that his 40 time was measured with a sundial.......