How did Belichick go from below average coach to greatness?

[LoveDemPats]

ohh, cmon guys....the reason BB is so good in NE was b/c all these years he has been using cameras on the sidelines to tape defensive signals...nvm that those signals change, that the opposite team also taped...

u just watch, this year, without being able to tape signals...hes gonna suck again...

wut was that? the pats are 7-0?

Oh, and also, the only reason that he has won anything is because of Weiss and Romeo, so you just wait until he doesn't have them around.

Remember this crap too?

 

[wistahpatsfan]

He has a great owner now that let's the coach and GM do their job. Modell never could do that. Modell likes being friends with the players, and that will always get in the way of personnel decisions. He fought with Belichick over the Kosar issue and how it was presented to the Cleveland fans.

Many forget, but Modell fired another great coach, Paul Brown......

That's what I think. Kraft is the dream owner coaches would kill to work for. Compare working in NE to working in places like Atlanta, Oakland, Dallas, Buffalo...places where the owner is the story. This is why BB will end his career in New England. There are no greener pastures.

 

[homergreg]

Belichick was the Browns Coach before the current Salary Cap system went into full effect. That system really changed how NFL teams are scouted and managed. He has a great ability to manage the cap.






Plus he drafted Tom Brady.

 

[primetime]

He got Tom Brady.

A high school coach could look like a genius with Tom Brady. Yes, Belichick is one of the all-time greats, but man was that ever a stroke of good luck.

 

[LaBrady]

BB was never below average.

BB already had 2 SB rings when he started in Cleveland. And I do believe BB was in charge of one of the best defenses in NFL history with the Giants. Weren't they the ones stopping great offenses like 49ers and Bills in the playoffs.

Now in Cleveland BB came to a ****ty ass team (as usual) and the team did improve just not to the point of being SB contender. And BB didn''t have full control of operations either. Thats all.

Whoever says that BB started cheating is total moron and an ignorant idiot!

 

[Flying Fungi]

He got Tom Brady.

A high school coach could look like a genius with Tom Brady. Yes, Belichick is one of the all-time greats, but man was that ever a stroke of good luck.

I'm going to give it up here for **** Rehbein--Brady was his choice.

 

[Pat the Pats Fan]

He got Tom Brady.

A high school coach could look like a genius with Tom Brady. Yes, Belichick is one of the all-time greats, but man was that ever a stroke of good luck.

Luck????? 30 other coaches had the opportunity to draft Brady at least 5 times each! They all passed!!!!!!! I guess the other NFL coaches aren't even good enough to be high school coaches?
Belichick scouted him and took him when he thought it was a good value....that's not luck.....that's all about finding, coaching and developing talent.....

 

[primetime]

Luck????? 30 other coaches had the opportunity to draft Brady at least 5 times each! They all passed!!!!!!! I guess the other NFL coaches aren't even good enough to be high school coaches?
Belichick scouted him and took him when he thought it was a good value....that's not luck.....that's all about finding, coaching and developing talent.....

It's luck. Bledsoe going down was luck.

How many other 6th round QBs have had the potential Brady does and just never got their chance? I'm sorry, the Patriots got incredibly lucky with Tom Brady. We, as fans, got incredibly lucky with Tom Brady. It's a one-in-a-billion thing that happened. If the Patriots had thought Tom Brady was a future Hall of Famer (and possibly the best ever) coming out, why'd they wait until the sixth round?

 

[godef]

Belichick's failure in Cleveland had more to do with perception than reality. People forget that he took Cleveland to the play-offs (they beat us for chrissakes!). But then the franchised announced their move to Baltimore and it all collapsed, no coach could have succeeded in that mess. And before that, he benched the ultra-popular Bernie Kosar and put in Testerverde (this was a proper move, Bernie had lost it).

And don't forget, he was 5-11 with us his first year. And then came Brady, whom we (at least some of us) are only really beginning to understand his greatness this year. Every dynastic coach has had a great quarterback, it's a part of the total puzzle.

 

[Pat the Pats Fan]

It's luck. Bledsoe going down was luck.

How many other 6th round QBs have had the potential Brady does and just never got their chance? I'm sorry, the Patriots got incredibly lucky with Tom Brady. We, as fans, got incredibly lucky with Tom Brady. It's a one-in-a-billion thing that happened. If the Patriots had thought Tom Brady was a future Hall of Famer (and possibly the best ever) coming out, why'd they wait until the sixth round?

Sorry, got to disagree......ever heard of Johnny Unitas? drafted and cut, no one picked him up for a year......Ryan Leaf, Jeff George, Rick Mirer, maybe even Mike Vick, all 1st round picks that were absolute busts.......Belichick has had better success developing talent from the lower rounds than many teams have had with their #1's.

And on the Bledsoe injury......many a coach would have given Bledsoe his starting job back mid season......

 

[p8ryts]

It took longer in Cleveland but he had the team in the playoffs the last full year he coached in Cleveland and had them 4-2 before the move was announced. From that point on the team was in disarray and the owner was suffering from Fan discontent with BB's persona or lack thereof and couldn't wait to dump him. All things considered he would have kept them on top fi he hadn't had the rug pulled out from under him. Also, he didn't have much in the way of QB's, Kosar was on the downside and his replacement by BB was a main factor in fan dislike of him. Have you ever heard of Mike Pagel? One of BB's starting QB's. I don't remember the rest off hand but they were just as forgettable.

He learned to soften his approach slightly, but mainly ended up with a new owner that trusted him, with an outstanding supporting cast of coaches and one great QB. That's all it takes.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Luck????? 30 other coaches had the opportunity to draft Brady at least 5 times each! They all passed!!!!!!! I guess the other NFL coaches aren't even good enough to be high school coaches?
Belichick scouted him and took him when he thought it was a good value....that's not luck.....that's all about finding, coaching and developing talent.....

Well, I guess it's a matter of perception. We should also thank the coach at Michigan (sorry, Michigan Dave) for putzing around with Brady and Henson, and the scouting community for reaching whatever consensus they did that Brady wasn't worth drafting high (gee, it's not like he did anything special like win a major bowl game or anything. . . . ).

I think almost all NFL coaches and scouts will agree, though, that Tom Brady's pre-draft evaluation was one of the biggest screw-ups in NFL history. Even BB, I think, would argue the Pats should have selected him well before pick 199.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Sorry, got to disagree......ever heard of Johnny Unitas? drafted and cut, no one picked him up for a year......Ryan Leaf, Jeff George, Rick Mirer, maybe even Mike Vick, all 1st round picks that were absolute busts.......Belichick has had better success developing talent from the lower rounds than many teams have had with their #1's.

And on the Bledsoe injury......many a coach would have given Bledsoe his starting job back mid season......

I remember the FOX pregame show last season talking about this issue out in KC (Huard v. Green). "Don't do it, Herm! Don't do it!"

Of course, we all know what happened there. :bricks:

 

[Absurdly Metro]

It's luck. Bledsoe going down was luck.

How many other 6th round QBs have had the potential Brady does and just never got their chance? I'm sorry, the Patriots got incredibly lucky with Tom Brady. We, as fans, got incredibly lucky with Tom Brady. It's a one-in-a-billion thing that happened. If the Patriots had thought Tom Brady was a future Hall of Famer (and possibly the best ever) coming out, why'd they wait until the sixth round?

The fact that so many teams passed on TB over and over always amazes me. The guy was a winner in college when he got the chance but all the scouts saw was a too skinny kid with questionable arm strength who couldn't win the starting job outright at Michigan. IMO, that became the official "book" on him to the point where teams completely overlooked the intangibles and dismissed his potential for greatness. But did anybody really have a way to measure the guys heart? His desire? His will and commitment to do whatever it takes to win? Probably not. The intangible "IT" that the great ones have may be hard to quantify but there are indicators. All the great ones (self-made), somewhere along the line, display that heart and desire and iron will to succeed. Stallone is this droopy faced guy who sounds totally stupid when he talks but he is so committed to being the star of the screen play he wrote (Rocky) that he's willing to literally starve until he gets what he wants. Madonna was willing to live on the streets and eat out of garbage cans. I gotta believe it was this way with TB. Maybe they should have been interviewing his sisters who could have told them how Tommy refused to lose at anything... even checkers.

There was certainly some "dumb luck" involved as you point out. But there was also plenty of the kind of luck which I've heard defined as being "where preparation meets opportunity." TB had been preparing himself for this kind of success for a long time. He must have seen himself doing these things long before he ever actually did them. And that dream, and belief in himself, drove him to leave no stone unturned or detail neglected in preparation for the day his opportunity would come. Mo Lewis came along (dumb luck) and the rest is history.

 

[QuiGon]

Much like Bill Walsh, he found his Montana. He and Brady are a perfect pair. But as much as people like to spin Belichick's performance in Cleveland, fact is he was 41-57 (plus 1-1 in the playoffs) before the Mo Lewis Hit Parade came to Foxboro.

I doubt Brady would be as successful without Belichick - but we know Belichick wouldn't be as successful without Brady.

 

[SkinsFanMania]

I always wondered what happened in Cleveland where BB did not have a very good overall record,Did he not have the guys or was he just not ready for coaching at the helm yet or did he learn slowly from working with legendary coaches like Parcells?

Why was he not the master game planner and brilliant strategist that he has become?.

I know there was a book on it or something regarding the sudden change but I always was curious to how he got so good when he was not very good in Cleveland.

I am betting it was the Modell trying to move the team and other things within the FO that bothered him and affected his work.

Its just something you really don't see in coaching,Usually you are either a good then great coach right from the getgo or you will suck and be average at best like a Norv Turner,Wade Phillips or Marty Schottenheimer who have never really come around....Yet

Any educated response out there?

Is it having guys like Brady (which doesn't hurt success) or something more that changed his coaching career totally around?

Two words: Tom Brady --- if you don't have him you may be a decent team, but you'd be right around the middle of the pack in the NFL this year.

 

[onegameatatime]

I suspect that BB had a chance to think about how free agency would affect the game and established the value system they use.

On TB, there was luck on draft day -- no doubt. But ...

Was it lucky that the Pats carried 4 QBs in TBs first year even though the Pats have since carried as few as two?

Was it lucky that the Pats made TB the #2 QB, moving TB over Damon Huard, a quality backup and even pretty good starter with NFL experience?

Was it lucky that the Pats made TB the #1 QB despite having an allegedly good QB and the conventional approach of a QB not losing a job to injury?

The process does not end on draft day, especially with low round picks. Makes you think how many Romos and Bradys there might be who never get a shot.

 

[Pat the Pats Fan]

Makes you think how many Romos and Bradys there might be who never get a shot.

Johnny Unitas was a perfect example, although 50 years ago. Drafted and cut by the Steelers, (they kept Ted Marchibroda instead), played semi pro for a year, picked up as a back up by the Baltimore Colts. George Shaw the Colts QB went down to injury. Unitas first play from scrimmage, was an interception that was run back for a TD. Shaw never played for the Colts again....

 

[Gumby]

To summarize/extrapolate off a couple of points made earlier.

1. Browns started from a much lower level
2. 4th year in Cleveland was not on BB due to owner-move situation. If you want to be fair in analyzing him as a coach you have to throw out at least the last 10 games of that season if not the whole season.
3. BB turned browns from a top 5 draft pick team to a playoff team - what more do you want from a coach???? (see 4 below)
4. BB was obviously much less media savvy in his Browns days; much of his "bad reputation in Clev" is a perception not performance problem.
5. 2nd go round was x number of years later and he had made y number more connections in the coaching/management fraternity that enabled him to identify guys he was willing to hire in his go-round with the Pats.

If you take all that and check the trend line; I think you will find the Browns - Patriots 1st 3 year trend lines under his leadership are pretty similar. With the Pats stabilizing at a phenomenal success rate in his subsequent years.

His "good luck" of having TB is obviously an impact. But that is 2 sides of coin too. How much of today's TB is a result of him being a guy who is always willing to accept good coaching. BB was the guy who told him he wasnt big/strong enough to survive in NFL....which resulted in TB getting the workout rat award (parking spot) from the Pats in his first season and gaining 20lbs of muscle. Would TB be the same QB if he had gone to Detriot/Buffy/Oakland and had 3 HCs in the same timeframe???

There was certainly some "dumb luck" involved as you point out. But there was also plenty of the kind of luck which I've heard defined as being "where preparation meets opportunity."

Great point here: Part of BB preparation meets opportunity was BB's networking and hiring decisions. Would BB have drafted TB if he didnt hire Rehbein and say I hired a guy cause I trust his judgement. I empowered him and I'll trust his recommendations. So some of the "DUMB LUCK" of picking Brady has to come back to credit BB for his personnel management too.

 

[solman]

Having an all time great coach is not enough for a team to be successful.

Bill Walsh had a losing record in three of his first four seasons, including a 2-14 season to kick things off.

BB started off his tenure here at 5-11