Cowboys Defensive TD Was An Incomplete Pass

[He Ban Me]

First of all, its wikipedia. Who knows who wrote it. Could be you. What he says though is true. But he says "reloads".......sure. AFTER HE TUCKS!!!! THERE HAS TO BE A TUCK FIRST!!!! BRADY NEVER TUCKED!!! ITS CALLED THE TUCK RULE FOR A REASON!!!!

I don't know who you are, to be honest I never noticed your posts before. But I'm starting to agree with the posters above who are mentioning you're an idiot.

J D Sal

The quote was from the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/14/AR2005101401828.html


IMO, his arm was coming back up, if it was coming back up, by definition, he tucked. I have heard of no one questioning this play except folks here. maybe Markbreit can clarify this particular play. Does he still do that weekly on his web site?

 

[JDSal45]

The quote was from the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/14/AR2005101401828.html


IMO, his arm was coming back up, if it was coming back up, by definition, he tucked. I have heard of no one questioning this play except folks here. maybe Markbreit can clarify this particular play. Does he still do that weekly on his web site?

There has to be a tuck. I mean, this isn't something that is exclusive to the Patriots. We're debating a rule and you're acting as if its a partisan thing. This should be a completely neutral discussion. The Patriots won regardless. I said, IN THE STANDS LAST WEEK, that the officials got the call right when they gave Cleveland's Anderson the incompletion on a similar play.

I don't see what you're not comprehending. If the arm goes forward and it hits the ground at any time afterwards....its incomplete. Unless the ball was tucked away. If the quarterback is running with it in his open hand, if he is lifting....NONE OF IT MATTERS. Its actually a very simple rule, non-partisan and it concerns me you can't grasp it.

Maybe you should read your article closer and see what Joe Gibbs says in it:

"The tuck rule is the tuck rule," said Redskins Coach Joe Gibbs, who discussed the call with the NFL's officiating department. "It says you can pull [the ball] down and do anything you want for the next 10 minutes. It makes no sense to me. It's the way it's worded. I think everybody probably sees that and says it's a bad rule."

Think he knows anything about football and the rule?

Here is what Mike Pereira, Director of Officials, says (once again in the very article you cited):

"The rule is very specific," Pereira said. "We have to make our decision based on the rule. Intent doesn't factor into the rule. Does the ball come out after [the quarterback's] arm is going forward and before he tucks the ball back into his body? If so, then it's an incomplete pass."

Did you ignore that on purpose? He says right there if he doesn't tuck, its incomplete. Brady never came close to tucking, he was holding it out in the open the entire time.

You can argue its a dumb rule, whatever. But it is what it is.

J D Sal

 

[sebman2112]

If Brady doesn't overthrow Moss on the preceding play that fumble wouldn't have even been a possibility.

I don't know that might have been a classic example of the tuck rule but I'm not completely sure. Brady pumps (bringing his arm all the way forward) then as he just starts bringing his arm back up the ball was knocked out...

There's a very good version if this play in slow-mo (about 1:18 in) during the fallowing highlight reel

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80345330

 

[He Ban Me]

There has to be a tuck. I mean, this isn't something that is exclusive to the Patriots. We're debating a rule and you're acting as if its a partisan thing. This should be a completely neutral discussion. The Patriots won regardless. I said, IN THE STANDS LAST WEEK, that the officials got the call right when they gave Cleveland's Anderson the incompletion on a similar play.

I don't see what you're not comprehending. If the arm goes forward and it hits the ground at any time afterwards....its incomplete. Unless the ball was tucked away. If the quarterback is running with it in his open hand, if he is lifting....NONE OF IT MATTERS. Its actually a very simple rule, non-partisan and it concerns me you can't grasp it.

Maybe you should read your article closer and see what Joe Gibbs says in it:

"The tuck rule is the tuck rule," said Redskins Coach Joe Gibbs, who discussed the call with the NFL's officiating department. "It says you can pull [the ball] down and do anything you want for the next 10 minutes. It makes no sense to me. It's the way it's worded. I think everybody probably sees that and says it's a bad rule."

Think he knows anything about football and the rule?

Here is what Mike Pereira, Director of Officials, says (once again in the very article you cited):

"The rule is very specific," Pereira said. "We have to make our decision based on the rule. Intent doesn't factor into the rule. Does the ball come out after [the quarterback's] arm is going forward and before he tucks the ball back into his body? If so, then it's an incomplete pass."

Did you ignore that on purpose? He says right there if he doesn't tuck, its incomplete. Brady never came close to tucking, he was holding it out in the open the entire time.

You can argue its a dumb rule, whatever. But it is what it is.

J D Sal

This wording is from the same article,


Only if the quarterback reloads -- and raises the ball again to start a new throwing motion -- can he fumble, as long as the ball is knocked loose before his arm begins to move forward again.

If the QB raises his arm again, so if he raises it again, means that his arm hit a low point (or tuck point). I would like to see the play again, to take a closer look at the arm and the Fball. Because again, I think that the arm starts to "reload", but again, need to see it again.

 

[JDSal45]

This wording is from the same article,


Only if the quarterback reloads -- and raises the ball again to start a new throwing motion -- can he fumble, as long as the ball is knocked loose before his arm begins to move forward again.

If the QB raises his arm again, so if he raises it again, means that his arm hit a low point (or tuck point). I would like to see the play again, to take a closer look at the arm and the Fball. Because again, I think that the arm starts to "reload", but again, need to see it again.

First of all, the ball was still down at his side when it was knocked out. Watch the feakin' video.

And you have proven yourself ignorant. If you can't see how clear this rule is, something is wrong.

J D Sal

 

[He Ban Me]

First of all, the ball was still down at his side when it was knocked out. Watch the feakin' video.

And you have proven yourself ignorant. If you can't see how clear this rule is, something is wrong.

J D Sal

Yeah, uh, okay Sal, I will. SCREW YOU TOO, ok.
Did you notice the title of the article included the verbage "hard to grasp"?? I don't think it is as clear as you think it is, and it's pretty ******* obvious that everybody in the NFL agrees.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

sebman -- nice find.

That was an incomplete pass.

Stupid rule, IMHO. But that was, as the OP said, a classic tuck rule incompletion. Not even close. The only argument is whether he brought the ball back to his shirt, but he didn't. I guess you could question whether the arm moved forward on the initial pump, but it did. Clearly it did.

I think the interpretation for a tuck is more generous now than what it was during the snow bowl game -- crook of elbow, under forearm, or brought to the body. Also, it can be a "tuck" if the free hand comes back into contact with the ball to secure it back in the throwing hand. None of that happened here. Easy and obvious call from that replay.

Bad on the Pats for not challenging.

 

[tuckeverlasting]

IMO, ?

exactly how much weight does that carry ?

 

[Number Cruncher]

First of all, the ball was still down at his side when it was knocked out. Watch the feakin' video.

And you have proven yourself ignorant. If you can't see how clear this rule is, something is wrong.

J D Sal

JD, give it up. My cat would understand this rule before this doofus.

 

[Oswlek]

Guys, that is a fumble. Brady completes the pump fake and even resets his arm to get ready to throw it again.

BTW, there most certainly is a time limit on the tuck. A QB cannot pump fake and then hold the ball out in front of him and run around without concern. If the QB stops his motion, then the pump is over.

 

[Number Cruncher]

Guys, that is a fumble. Brady completes the pump fake and even resets his arm to get ready to throw it again.

BTW, there most certainly is a time limit on the tuck. A QB cannot pump fake and then hold the ball out in front of him and run around without concern. If the QB stops his motion, then the pump is over.

Not according to the poorly written rule....

 

[patchick]

FWIW, I was screaming "INCOMPLETE PASS" at my poor defenseless tv until I saw the replay, at which point I muttered "oh, er, or maybe lateral, nevermind" and sunk back to my seat.

 

[godef]

That play where the Cowboys scored on the fumble should have been reviewed. It was an incomplete pass. Brady pumped and never tucked the ball away. In that situation, when the ball hits the ground its incomplete. No exceptions. We all know this in New England. And the exact same thing was called in Cleveland's favor last week against us. Classic tuck rule. Watch the play, Brady pumps (arm moves forward)....moves a bit in the pocket, ball is knocked out. But he NEVER tucks the ball away....a key to the rule.

Incomplete pass, should have been reviewed. That was a mistake by the Patriots coaches.

J D Sal

I'm just glad they got it right when it really counted.

 

[He Ban Me]

Guys, that is a fumble. Brady completes the pump fake and even resets his arm to get ready to throw it again.

BTW, there most certainly is a time limit on the tuck. A QB cannot pump fake and then hold the ball out in front of him and run around without concern. If the QB stops his motion, then the pump is over.

Can't wait for JD to see this. You are toast Oswelek, and you a re a Pats fan. Somebody go get JD!

 

[BadMoFo]

One caveat, its unclear if the ball went forward or backwards. I think it went forward, but its close.

J D Sal

You create a thread saying it was incomplete, but then you backtrack and say it was close. What is it?

 

[spacecrime]

That play where the Cowboys scored on the fumble should have been reviewed. It was an incomplete pass. Brady pumped and never tucked the ball away. In that situation, when the ball hits the ground its incomplete. No exceptions. We all know this in New England. And the exact same thing was called in Cleveland's favor last week against us. Classic tuck rule. Watch the play, Brady pumps (arm moves forward)....moves a bit in the pocket, ball is knocked out. But he NEVER tucks the ball away....a key to the rule.

Incomplete pass, should have been reviewed. That was a mistake by the Patriots coaches.

J D Sal

No, watch the clip again. After lowering it (preparing to tuck), Brady brings the ball back UP. He is now no longer tucking, but preparing to throw again.

The refs got this one right.

Edit: Just read the rest of the thread and I see I am saying the same thing as He Spank Me Bum, which is disconcerting to say the least. But fumble was the correct call.

 

[He Ban Me]

No, watch the clip again. After lowering it (preparing to tuck), Brady brings the ball back UP. He is now no longer tucking, but preparing to throw again.

The refs got this one right.

Edit: Just read the rest of the thread and I see I am saying the same thing as He Spank Me Bum, which is disconcerting to say the least. But fumble was the correct call.

Space!! It's okay, I'm really not a bad guy.

CERTAINLY, an apology from all those who jumped my case yesterday would be nice

 

[Joker]

step in front of a speeding train...gaurantee we'll love you

 

[He Ban Me]

step in front of a speeding train...gaurantee we'll love you

Speaking of speeding trains, what happens to the guy who runs in front of the trolly, and drops down flat on the street, just as the trolly approaches? Does he get all mangled up, or is there enough clearance? Finally, was that YOU who did that?

 

[Joker]

trolly?

where the hell do YOU live?