Why are other teams so hot for our coordinators?

[PromisedLand]

I posted this in the thread about McDaniels being the next hot head coaching prospect, but it kind of got lost amongst other debates - and I think it is a legit question and deserves a thread of its own, so here goes:

It would seem to me that if NFL GM's have any brains (debatable in some cases), they wouldn't be in such a hurry to hire Patriots assistants as head coaches. I mean, BB's ex-lieutenants haven't exactly covered themselves with glory, have they?

Romeo might or might not save his job after two horrible seasons in Cleveland.

Mangini started out like gangbusters against a cupcake schedule but that is starting to look like a fluke as the Jets start his second year 1-4.

Charlie is taking heavy fire at Notre Dame as his Fighting Irish lose their first 5 games in this, his 3rd year. ND fans are wondering why Charlie got a long term deal when Ty Willingham had a better record at this point in his tenure. Granted, that isn't an NFL team but generally guys who have coached at both levels do better in college - think Pete Carroll, Steve Spurrier, Butch Davis, etc.

And what about Nick Saban, who was BB's DC in Cleveland? He didn't exactly save the day for the Dolphins, did he?

So I ask again, why are NFL GM's so eager to hire any warm body with "worked under BB" on his resume, when none of them have really panned out yet?

The natural assumption is that because the Patriots have been so successful in the BB era, that any assistant is going to be able to reproduce the magic somewhere else. The evidence indicates otherwise. Sooner or later the other GM's will figure that out.

 

[carolinatony]

Easy.
They think ANYONE who works with BB will turn them around.
I keep saying we need to hire 2/3 idiots and give them a title and watch some teams grab them up

 

[cavtroop]

Everyone wants to fall over themselves to emulate 'The Patriot Way' of doing things. However, they are mistaken if they think that comes solely from a Head Coach (or former pats co-ordinators). It's driven from within the organization - from the Owner, to the GM, to the HC and OC's. A HC subscribing to "The Patriot Way" will only go so far in the face of incompetent owners and GMs.

 

[The Boston Patriot]

Patriot's coordinators or:

Jets Coordinators, Bengals Coordinators, Dolphins Coordinators, etc. I know
which ones I would be interested in.

 

[DynastyDriven]

They have Patriots envy

 

[DarrylS]

They want to learn how to "cheat" the way Belichick does..

 

[unoriginal]

The ultimate reason is that bringing in a shiny new Patriots coach sells season tickets and corporate boxes for a season or two.

If the coach actually pans out, that's considered a bonus.

 

[PromisedLand]

The ultimate reason is that bringing in a shiny new Patriots coach sells season tickets and corporate boxes for a season or two.

If the coach actually pans out, that's considered a bonus.

That's cynical but could be the truth.

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

...what about Nick Saban, who was BB's DC in Cleveland? He didn't exactly save the day for the Dolphins, did he?

You are going to base 1 bad year (Saban's second year) and bail????

If he wanted to right the ship in Miami, I believe he would have done it.

If he went with Brees... he would have been the coach of the year.

He IS a good coach imo... no matter what anyone else thinks.

His first year was 9-7. Nothing to laugh at.

He is more savvy then Mangini...

Quit making so many assumptions.

 

[He Ban Me]

Good question, I can't figure it out either.

Mangina-sucks
Weis-sucks
Crennel-sucks

 

[PromisedLand]

You are going to base 1 bad year (Saban's second year) and bail????

If he wanted to right the ship in Miami, I believe he would have done it.

If he went with Brees... he would have been the coach of the year.

He IS a good coach imo... no matter what anyone else thinks.

His first year was 9-7. Nothing to laugh at.

He is more savvy then Mangini...

Quit making so many assumptions.

Actually you're the only one making assumptions - highlighted above. I challenge you to highlight ONE assumption that I made.

I said Saban didn't exactly save the day in Miami - do you disagree with that? His record was 15-17 in two seasons, with the second season at 6-10. And then he bailed.

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

Actually you're the only one making assumptions - highlighted above. I challenge you to highlight ONE assumption that I made.

I said Saban didn't exactly save the day in Miami - do you disagree with that? His record was 15-17 in two seasons, with the second season at 6-10. And then he bailed.

He wasn't that bad... why he left?

I dunno.

Must be the excessive pressure.

He still is good tho.

Not coming down on you... but it is odd that he didn't stick with Miami.

 

[Captain Cool]

They think that whatever BB has, he instills in his coordinators.

Really, it's about trying to turn their franchises into the Patriots.

 

[jays52]

I think that they recognize that he hires the right kind of people. He takes bright kids just out of college and grooms them in the intracacies and nuances of the game. He teaches them the SWOT strategy he employs, and teaches them how to identify and maximize tallent. I think they see a bright mind coming out of a stellar pipeline and simply take advantage of the situation.

 

[Deus Irae]

Weis and Romeo made the decisions to go to teams without sufficient talent to compete right away. In the case of Romeo, it's easy to see that the talent level is starting to rise and the team is starting to improve as a result. The question with RAC seems to be whether or not he's going to be allowed to ride the upswing.

In the case of Weis, the result is that he's got to suffer with the two terrible recruiting classes that Winningham left him before his recruit classes become the upperclassmen and can lead the team. Having said that, he really needs to have better linemen in the pipeline (I don't know if he does or not) or his seasons are going to keep going into the toilet, and I can't vouch for his recruiting ability to date. The collapse of that team was pretty easy to see coming for those who looked at last year's team and saw what would be left after the upperclassmen left.

Mangini took a 'mediocre' team and used a soft schedule to get to the playoffs. This season, he's dealing with a more difficult schedule, a #1 draft pick who held out, and what looks to be a quarterback who's arm strength is really deteriorating after multiple shoulder surgeries. The fact that he is behaving like a Soviet when it comes to his players isn't helping any either, but it's clear that he is good enough to coach in the NFL. He may be a tool, but is there anyone here who wouldn't take him over Childress, for example? At least he's young enough to possibly learn from his mistakes.

 

[PromisedLand]

Weis and Romeo made the decisions to go to teams without sufficient talent to compete right away. In the case of Romeo, it's easy to see that the talent level is starting to rise and the team is starting to improve as a result. The question with RAC seems to be whether or not he's going to be allowed to ride the upswing.

I don't think you can really draw that conclusion based on a 2-3 record. They may be on the upswing but it is too early to say.

In the case of Weis, the result is that he's got to suffer with the two terrible recruiting classes that Winningham left him before his recruit classes become the upperclassmen and can lead the team. Having said that, he really needs to have better linemen in the pipeline (I don't know if he does or not) or his seasons are going to keep going into the toilet, and I can't vouch for his recruiting ability to date. The collapse of that team was pretty easy to see coming for those who looked at last year's team and saw what would be left after the upperclassmen left.

I have to disagree with you again. Weis won his first two years with guys he inherited, including Brady Quinn and Szmarja (sp?). He is now in his third year and is losing with his own guys.

Mangini took a 'mediocre' team and used a soft schedule to get to the playoffs. This season, he's dealing with a more difficult schedule, a #1 draft pick who held out, and what looks to be a quarterback who's arm strength is really deteriorating after multiple shoulder surgeries. The fact that he is behaving like a Soviet when it comes to his players isn't helping any either, but it's clear that he is good enough to coach in the NFL. He may be a tool, but is there anyone here who wouldn't take him over Childress, for example? At least he's young enough to possibly learn from his mistakes.

Mangini may yet turn out to be a great coach, but right now he is captain of a sinking ship and from the sounds coming out of his locker room the ship may be called the Bounty.

 

[Deus Irae]

Weis and Romeo made the decisions to go to teams without sufficient talent to compete right away. In the case of Romeo, it's easy to see that the talent level is starting to rise and the team is starting to improve as a result. The question with RAC seems to be whether or not he's going to be allowed to ride the upswing.

I don't think you can really draw that conclusion based on a 2-3 record. They may be on the upswing but it is too early to say.

Where did anything about the team's record? It doesn't take a seer to realize that the Browns are an improving team.

In the case of Weis, the result is that he's got to suffer with the two terrible recruiting classes that Winningham left him before his recruit classes become the upperclassmen and can lead the team. Having said that, he really needs to have better linemen in the pipeline (I don't know if he does or not) or his seasons are going to keep going into the toilet, and I can't vouch for his recruiting ability to date. The collapse of that team was pretty easy to see coming for those who looked at last year's team and saw what would be left after the upperclassmen left.

I have to disagree with you again. Weis won his first two years with guys he inherited, including Brady Quinn and Szmarja (sp?). He is now in his third year and is losing with his own guys.

There are 4 classes (with some 5th year exceptions) on a college team. When Weis arrived, he had only Ty's players available. Those players move from freshman to senior and then graduate. A coach is stuck with the previous coach's players for 4 seasons, barring early exits. Ty's players are still on the Notre Dame team, and are the players who should be the team's best. The players are just bad, as the recruiting 'analysts' predicted they would be. Now, once Ty's players are gone, Weis will be reliant upon his own recruits and will stand or fall based upon their success. That time simply has not yet come. Weis proved quite capable of coaching talent when Quinn and company were around. The question is going to be whether or not he can recruit and develop talent as well.

http://media.www.ndsmcobserver.com/media/storage/paper660/news/2005/02/01/Sports/Football.Recruiting.Weis.First.Signing.Class.Nearly.Complete-847652.shtml
Notice the year for that first class.


As for Mangini, I was not defending him, just explaining his position. He was a success last year, and has not been one through 5 games this season. As young as he is, that doesn't make him a failure. He showed last season that he can coach at the NFL level. Now he has to show that he can learn from his mistakes and improve.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

I actually agree with a few of the posters here in that, short term, they do not look very good. Long term.............. it remains to be seen.

RAC - I believe Cleveland IS GETTING better, and for sure they have a lot of younger talent. Anderson, Edwards, Winslow, plus a few older vets for leadership. But again, will he be allowed to finish. If they get a whiff of .500 this year, I think he might.

Sabin - Again, he probably could have succeeded long term, but the situation down there was terrible and his departure was inevitable.

Magina - as much as I hate the guy, Promised Land might be right. In the right situation, he could find some success. Well, at least he probably wouldn’t be any worse then some of the other numbskull HC that have coached at this level.

Crennel - Who gives a crap about ND anyway

 

[PatsSteve1]

I don't think it's an easy thing to be able to tell which coordinators or asst. coaches are going to turn into good NFL head coaches. That coach also better go to a team with a pretty good core of players(including at east a decent QB) or it's going to be hard to look good as a HC. So which coaches is a GM or owner going to choose? Most likely ones from the better teams that already have a good HC. The coordinators and asst. coaches chosen almost always were good at the position the held. It just doesn't always translate to being a good HC.

 

[solman]

Most first-time head coaches suck. The question is how the first gigs of BB's assistants will compare to the first gigs of non-BB coaches over a period of time. Its much to early to answer that question.