3 Tight End offense?

[patpatriot]

Just getting around to reading the local rags' account of the Chargers game and saw this talk about the Pats formation that has 3 TE and Randy Moss as the lone receiver. The formation is a pure power running set that still has the potential for a big play from the lone receiver. That's what happened on that fabulous TD in NY when Moss ran away from 4 Jets. The extra TEs allowed the Pats to max protect until Moss just ran by everybody. If they keep 2 or three guys deep to counter Moss, the power running formation just methodically chews them up. Has anyone ever seen this kind of thing in the NFL before?

 

[LoveDemPats]

It is gonna pay big dividends to Morris and Maroni. They are really going to be able to take advantage if Moss/Brady connect for a few more homers.

 

[patpatriot]

I really think it's going to be most effective against the cover 2 teams that have those fast but puny LBs. The key of course is that the TEs have to be athletic enough to get a hat on those smaller quicker guys. Who on our schedule beside the Colts is a real cover 2 team?

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

The formation is a pure power running set that still has the potential for a big play from the lone receiver. That's what happened on that fabulous TD in NY when Moss ran away from 4 Jets. The extra TEs allowed the Pats to max protect until Moss just ran by everybody.

Actually, on the Moss TD vs Jets, both TEs ran routes. Kyle Brady was wide open in the middle of the field 20 yards deep because Moss had drawn both safeties. But you're right, it's usually meant for max protection. I'm not sure we'll see much of O'Callaghan lined up as the third TE once Thomas returns though.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Schematically, it's an advantage against any defense becuase the 3 TE set offers the offense so many variations in it's usage that it's darn near impossible for the defense to figure out what's going to happen. Provided you have the right people to run it. Most teams don't have such personnel so it's not a prominantly used formation. But the Pats do have the right people to use it and we've seen the results.

For example. Trotting 3 TE's out there allows for a serious power rushing scheme because you are adding 750#'s or so of girth to the line. When defenses see these 3 TE's they may logically expect and then scheme accordingly for a run. But they might not see a run because having those 3 extra big bodies out there also allows for max protect of the QB in the passing game. Now this might not be a big concern for most defenses because with 3 TE's (and a RB) in then only 1 WR is in the game and passing won't be a huge problem. This is where having a dominating WR like Moss comes in very handy. Moss will take 2 defenders with him - especially if the Pats are in max protect on the line - meaning Brady will have all kinds of time to wait for Moss to get open. Not even Champ Bailey can cover a guy like Moss for seconds upon seconds. So defenses will have to adjust accordingly by employing a 2nd defender to cover Moss. This then means 1 less defender to defend against the run. With a QB as good as Brady at recognizing matchup advantages, this it's butter in his hands. Further, if any of the TE's are capable of catching passes then the formation itself is almost an unfair advantage because it therefore means the defense won't have a clue what the offense is going to do. Will the TE's stay in and run block? Will they stay in and pass block or will they pretend to run/pass block only to go out in a pass pattern?

I think it's worthwhile to note that when Thomas gets back things should be even better when the Pats employ a 3 TE set. Thomas is almost like a big WR in a TE body and brings major matchup opportunities as a result which, when coupled with Watson, gives the Pats an almost unfair advantage against most any defense we'll face this year.

 

[patpatriot]

Another interesting thing; to match up the opposition must bring up 2 DBs leaving Moss in merely double coverage (which he can beat). If they double Moss, the result is as you described it's likely that at least one of the other receivers is going to pop free. If they don't double Moss...

 

[TheBaronPatriot]

Good points by the posters above me.
But think of the play action implications here as well.
Delay TE patterns now become a threat.
Where the TE blocks, and then releases.
And if Brady walks up the the line, and sees Moss in an advantageous position, ie 1 on 1, or a double team Moss can beat, he will audible to it and hit it.

Screens... draws...
All with the threat of Randy Moss going over your head if you so much as hint of not respecting Randy.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Good points by the posters above me.
But think of the play action implications here as well.
Delay TE patterns now become a threat.
Where the TE blocks, and then releases.
And if Brady walks up the the line, and sees Moss in an advantageous position, ie 1 on 1, or a double team Moss can beat, he will audible to it and hit it.

Screens... draws...
All with the threat of Randy Moss going over your head if you so much as hint of not respecting Randy.

Exactly, and when we play the Colts, you won't see Mr Sanders cheating up to stuff the run because they don't fear our passing game anymore. Instead we'll likely see Mr Sanders getting caught on his backfoot (expecting a run) only to watch Watson or Thomas blow on by him enroute to a TD pass from Brady.

 

[letekro]

Exactly, and when we play the Colts, you won't see Mr Sanders cheating up to stuff the run because they don't fear our passing game anymore. Instead we'll likely see Mr Sanders getting caught on his backfoot (expecting a run) only to watch Watson or Thomas blow on by him enroute to a TD pass from Brady.

Exactly. He can't be two places at the same time....or can he?? Amazing how one player can turn a D from porous to stout.

 

[patpatriot]

Screens... draws...
All with the threat of Randy Moss going over your head if you so much as hint of not respecting Randy.

I don't think that a draw play would work unless all three TE's went out is pass patterns leaving some space for the rb to get around the big guys otherwise too many guys at the LOS. Ditto for screens unless it was a TE screen or possibly that little WR screen to Welker.

You are right about the threat of Moss downfield though. Everybody up at the LOS except 2 guys taken deep by Moss leaves an awful lot of space in between those 2 sets of defenders.

 

[Fencer]

The only disadvantage to multi-TE sets is the spacing of the receivers. TEs can't run as fast or change direction as effectively as WRs; rather, they use their bodies to get position on the defenders in a limited number of predictable ways.

Otherwise, multi-TE sets are pure goodness.

If one can overcome the drawbacks of multi-TE sets by a combo of personnel and scheming, they're lethal.

 

[patpatriot]

The only disadvantage to multi-TE sets is the spacing of the receivers. TEs can't run as fast or change direction as effectively as WRs; rather, they use their bodies to get position on the defenders in a limited number of predictable ways.

Otherwise, multi-TE sets are pure goodness.

If one can overcome the drawbacks of multi-TE sets by a combo of personnel and scheming, they're lethal.

Both Thomas and Watson have receiver-like athleticism. KB...well let's just say I won't be happy if he gets a lot of balls thrown his way. I remember him with the Jets "manos de la piedra" indeed!

 

[BelichickFan]

Both Thomas and Watson have receiver-like athleticism.

When asked to play as real WR - they make very athletic TE. But get them in a situation where the defense is looking for, or has to at least respect, the run and a mismatch can make them play more like WR.

 

[TheBaronPatriot]

I don't think that a draw play would work unless all three TE's went out is pass patterns leaving some space for the rb to get around the big guys otherwise too many guys at the LOS. Ditto for screens unless it was a TE screen or possibly that little WR screen to Welker.

You are right about the threat of Moss downfield though. Everybody up at the LOS except 2 guys taken deep by Moss leaves an awful lot of space in between those 2 sets of defenders.

That's the point though. Morris/Faulk/Maroney can run a screen or draw out of there. But you are right. The TE would have to clear out or go in patterns to vacate space. Watson in his own right commands a certain level of coverage.
So with Moss going deep, and Watson going towards the middle. Things are pretty open.

 

[shakadave]

I'm not sure we'll see much of O'Callaghan lined up as the third TE once Thomas returns though.

And it wasn't just O'Callaghan on a one-time gimmick play. He lined up at tight end double-digit-number of times.