George Halas stole signals!!!

[letekro]

Sorry, guys (and gals) this "they did it too!" justification reeks of desperation and paranoia.

The fact remains: BB knowingly broke a league rule under a law and order commissioner after being specifically warned not to.

Either:

A. We gained a competitive advantage from the tapes and BB thought the continuation of that benefit outweighed the risk; OR

B. We gained no competitive advantage and BB took a miscalculated, unnecessary risk.

I tend to lean toward A. But either way, it is irrelevant. BB broke a rule, apparently admitted to a long-running violation of the rule, and Goodell is well within his power to request the fruits of that illegal activity.

 

[kolbitr]

Sorry, guys (and gals) this "they did it too!" justification reeks of desperation and paranoia.

The fact remains: BB knowingly broke a league rule under a law and order commissioner after being specifically warned not to.

Either:

A. We gained a competitive advantage from the tapes and BB thought the continuation of that benefit outweighed the risk; OR

B. We gained no competitive advantage and BB took a miscalculated, unnecessary risk.

I tend to lean toward A. But either way, it is irrelevant. BB broke a rule, apparently admitted to a long-running violation of the rule, and Goodell is well within his power to request the fruits of that illegal activity.

What's the purpose of yet another thread? With a ludicrous title? With no news, no original insights, and mere speculation?

Come on...there's no problem with this opinion, but it belongs in existing threads.

 

[letekro]

What's the purpose of yet another thread? With a ludicrous title? With no news, no original insights, and mere speculation?

Come on...there's no problem with this opinion, but it belongs in existing threads.

What's the purpose of bumping it? You clown.

 

[emoney_33]

The fact that you believe the taping had anything to do with stealing signals shows your continued ignorance on this entire issue. Please stop posting on it, thanks

 

[letekro]

The fact that you believe the taping had anything to do with stealing signals shows your continued ignorance on this entire issue. Please stop posting on it, thanks

The taping is illegal, not the sign stealing. The title of the thread is mocking others who have posted similar nonsense.

 

[kolbitr]

What's the purpose of bumping it? You clown.

"Bumping" brand-new threads on the first page is hardly relevant--everyone can see them already. What is relevant is questioning one poster's desire for attention, rather than contributing to an ongoing discussion and sparing the board unwanted clutter on a crappy day.

 

[emoney_33]

The taping is illegal, not the sign stealing. The title of the thread is mocking others who have posted similar nonsense.

to be technical, the taping from that specific position (on the field) is illegal, not the actual taping itself. But you are right, broke the rule according the commish's interpretation, we paid. But now the commish continues to go overboard requesting all of our video and notes since 2000? Really? and we can't make copies? So wouldn't that put us in a position to play the entire season with ZERO documentation on any coach, player or team in the league? Does that not put us in a monumental disadvantage from every single team in the league? Goodell is a failure and it's week 2 of his first year. PATHETIC. Bad leaders always rule too long though, that's the sad part

 

[letekro]

The "discussion" has been going on for some time now. I'm simply trying to point out the mootness of the points being discussed: I.e., whether the patriots cheated, whether others cheated, what the patriots were filming, etc.

 

[emoney_33]

The "discussion" has been going on for some time now. I'm simply trying to point out the mootness of the points being discussed: I.e., whether the patriots cheated, whether others cheated, what the patriots were filming, etc.

I understand, im just quite a bit more angry today after hearing about Goodell's "request"

 

[letekro]

to be technical, the taping from that specific position (on the field) is illegal, not the actual taping itself. But you are right, broke the rule according the commish's interpretation, we paid. But now the commish continues to go overboard requesting all of our video and notes since 2000? Really? and we can't make copies? So wouldn't that put us in a position to play the entire season with ZERO documentation on any coach, player or team in the league? Does that not put us in a monumental disadvantage from every single team in the league? Goodell is a failure and it's week 2 of his first year. PATHETIC. Bad leaders always rule too long though, that's the sad part

Before this incident, posters were lining up to wax Goodell's a**.....Now he is a terrible commissioner...I love it!

Anyway, I addressed your point. The Patriots obtained the videotape illegally, gleaned the notes from that illegally obtained videotape, and thus, Goodell has a right to seize all videotape and related notes as fruits of the illegal activity. Is that not clear??

 

[emoney_33]

Before this incident, posters were lining up to wax Goodell's a**.....Now he is a terrible commissioner...I love it!

I said he was terrible commish, and i never said a kind word about him prior. Thanks.

Anyway, I addressed your point. The Patriots obtained the videotape illegally, gleaned the notes from that illegally obtained videotape, and thus, Goodell has a right to seize all videotape and related notes as fruits of the illegal activity. Is that not clear??

That's fine, it's within his rights i guess, but it's still overboard. Like sending an officer to watch someone you caught going 5 mph over the speed limit.

 

[kolbitr]

Well, I'm not sure it is entire moot in every circumstance. You're right that the act was not allowed under the directives, directives which seem pretty clear to me, I admit.

What many on the board are reacting to with their outraged defense is the accusation that the Patriots have somehow done something truly and unsually awful, something unique in the annals of sports crime; when in fact they are simply more in love with information, and more arrogant, than any other team (except maybe Denver). And it would seem that Goodell has chosen to allow that perception to harden, for is own political purposes.

(I guess by my lengthy response I am guilty of hypocrisy myself, since I didn't like the thread originally. Guilty as charged.)

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

Well, I'm not sure it is entire moot in every circumstance. You're right that the act was not allowed under the directives, directives which seem pretty clear to me, I admit.

What many on the board are reacting to with their outraged defense is the accusation that the Patriots have somehow done something truly and unsually awful, something unique in the annals of sports crime; when in fact they are simply more in love with information, and more arrogant, than any other team (except maybe Denver). And it would seem that Goodell has chosen to allow that perception to harden, for is own political purposes.

(I guess by my lengthy response I am guilty of hypocrisy myself, since I didn't like the thread originally. Guilty as charged.)

Bingo! That's why people are upset. It's not that we don't get that the Patriots broke a NFL rule, it's the perception that because of this, every other team in the league has a big halo over it and we have fire and horns.

 

[letekro]

Well, I'm not sure it is entire moot in every circumstance. You're right that the act was not allowed under the directives, directives which seem pretty clear to me, I admit.

What many on the board are reacting to with their outraged defense is the accusation that the Patriots have somehow done something truly and unsually awful, something unique in the annals of sports crime; when in fact they are simply more in love with information, and more arrogant, than any other team (except maybe Denver). And it would seem that Goodell has chosen to allow that perception to harden, for is own political purposes.

(I guess by my lengthy response I am guilty of hypocrisy myself, since I didn't like the thread originally. Guilty as charged.)

See that's the thing - I think you are wrongly imputing the media circus and the fan hysteria to Goodell. If you look at his actions in a vacuum, they seem rather rational. Most people agree the punishment was not unreasonably severe, and requesting the illegally obtained material also follows rationally.

Of course, he has a vested interest in upholding the perception of integrity in the league. I just don't see that goal as being at cross-purposes with his other goal of meting out fair (but stern) punishment. By requesting the materials, he is simply trying to eradicate any competitve advantage the Patriots MAY HAVE received from the illegal videotaping. Whatever meaning we or other fanbases ascribe to the request is irrelevant.

 

[emoney_33]

See that's the thing - I think you are wrongly imputing the media circus and the fan hysteria to Goodell. If you look at his actions in a vacuum, they seem rather rational. Most people agree the punishment was not unreasonably severe, and requesting the illegally obtained material also follows rationally.

Of course, he has a vested interest in upholding the perception of integrity in the league. I just don't see that goal as being at cross-purposes with his other goal of meting out fair (but stern) punishment.

I dont see how you can look at this in a vacuum and see the punishment as fair. Breaking a rule that states taping on the field is illegal. How big of a rule is this, why is the rule there, what does it mean by breaking this rule? There are speed limits in this country, if you go over by 1mph you broke the rule, but not significantly, 1 out of probably 5 thousand officers might pull you over.

The punishment does not fit the crime. Cruel and unusual for the crime imo.

 

[kolbitr]

See that's the thing - I think you are wrongly imputing the media circus and the fan hysteria to Goodell. If you look at his actions in a vacuum, they seem rather rational. Most people agree the punishment was not unreasonably severe, and requesting the illegally obtained material also follows rationally.

Of course, he has a vested interest in upholding the perception of integrity in the league. I just don't see that goal as being at cross-purposes with his other goal of meting out fair (but stern) punishment.

One means that he might uphold the "integrity of the league" is to publicly define what has occurred here in narrower and less melodramatic terms. At the moment, the mistakes and arrogance aside, the melodrama has been fashioned by television and newspaper people, whose day-to-day interests are certainly at variance with the stability of any institution (motto: don't kill the story). One could argue that it's not Goodell's job to do that; however, I think that public perception could be swayed somewhat by the man having a) greater control over the leaks from his office, and b) a statement to the effect that his office considers the matter closed, perhaps (I am probably hallucinating here) also making a statement to the effect that the League's office sees no reason, given the information at their disposal, to call into question the past accomplishments of one of the most successful organizations in the NFL, and only requires that the coaching staff takes step to ensure greater compliance and respect for league guidelines in the present and future.