We Should Fly the Black Flag and Change our team Colors

[Grogan's neck roll]

I was one that was disappointed when I heard about the videotaping, and I do see it as intentionally breaking the rules, and yes even "cheating".

But good lord the amount of self-flagellation people have taken to (yes you Dan Shaugnessy) is getting a little ridiculous. If you want to root for someone else go ahead, don't let the door hit you in the ass. The rest of us might take this as a learning opportunity for our kids, and move on.

Sunday night is going to be a war.

 

[PatriotsReign]

We are the raiders. We aren't the yankees. We are way beyond that.

We don't care about sportmanship. We care about winning. If we break rules and caught, we will own up to it and pay our penalties. We don't care what anyone thinks. We are proud, load and arrogant. We have the right. We are the best there is.

And we are surprised when the media and others are negative toward us. Why can't they all just accept hjow great we are? Anyone who disagrees with us is an idiot. We should tear down the CBA and NFL because we were punished.

We are NOT America's team. We cannot be. We are Boston fans. We are not Dallas. We are San Francisco. We are not Pittsburgh. We are not Indy. We are not Chicago. In 2003 and 2004 we were becoming America's team, but we couldn't stand it.

We are Boston and stick to anyone who doen't think that we the greatest on the face of the earth.
========================================

I am embarrassed with us. We cannot even begin to consider it looks to be proud about breaking the rules. We cannot even begin to consider how this looks to those who don't live in Boston. I thought that I had seen it all when I saw our reaction to Harrison's suspension. I thought that perhaps that wasn't the real Boston fan. I was wrong. We are Boston fans. We want to win and nothing else matters.
=========================================

Let Kraft make whatever statements he needs to make, and let's move on to football. He is the best owner in sports today, and runs the best organization.

Guess you were never a Patriots fan to begin with. You musta went to the game to cheer for the ORGANIZATION while the rest of the Patriots FANS cheered the players. Being a fan is about our heritage and the suffering and joy we've experienced as fans. That heritage serves as our foundation and has nothing to do with the actions of the organization.

Phonies like you get embaressed because you worry about your image. you probably worry about your image in your community and at work too, huh. Well guess what, image is "imaginary" my friend and those who worry about it are phony without exception.

People make mistakes, companies make mistakes...but fans don't make mistakes. It's impossible for that to happen. We the fans have done nothing wrong buddy. And our heritage has nothing to do with the team. It is based upon what it means to be a fan and that is all about support. We support our team AND we support each other...period.

WE ARE FANS, NOT JUDGES & JURY.

 

[PatsWorldChamps]

We cannot even begin to consider how this looks to those who don't live in Boston. I thought that I had seen it all when I saw our reaction to Harrison's suspension. I thought that perhaps that wasn't the real Boston fan. I was wrong. We are Boston fans. We want to win and nothing else matters.

No, we are New England fans.... most Pats fans do not live in Boston... time for someone to come off their high horse... if you dont like the team, go with that other dude who just couldnt take it anymore, over to JetsInsider... we'll miss you!

 

[Michigan Dave]

Are you kidding? Much like when people like to perpetuate that we are somehow a holier-than-thou franchise that players should die to play for, I will respond in the same manner to this: We are one of 32 teams in the NFL. Period. We're doing nothing to get a leg up that the others aren't trying to do. Did we use a different medium to obtain said leg up? Sure. Is it somehow damaging to the integrity of the game, or worth getting so upset and embarrassed over? Hell no.

I'm just as proud to wear my Pats gear today as I was a year ago, as I was after the Super Bowls.

 

[QuiGon]

But good lord the amount of self-flagellation people have taken to (yes you Dan Shaugnessy) is getting a little ridiculous. If you want to root for someone else go ahead, don't let the door hit you in the ass. The rest of us might take this as a learning opportunity for our kids, and move on.

Shank Shaugnessey is the ultimate fair weather friend. If you win a championship, he'll gladly write a book about you an dcapitalize on the public's interest. But he certainly does enjoy kicking you when you're down.

 

[Grogan's neck roll]

Are you kidding? Much like when people like to perpetuate that we are somehow a holier-than-thou franchise that players should die to play for, I will respond in the same manner to this: We are one of 32 teams in the NFL. Period. We're doing nothing to get a leg up that the others aren't trying to do. Did we use a different medium to obtain said leg up? Sure. Is it somehow damaging to the integrity of the game, or worth getting so upset and embarrassed over? Hell no.

I'm just as proud to wear my Pats gear today as I was a year ago, as I was after the Super Bowls.

Michigan Dave, this is very well said, especially for a Michigan man!! (Ohio Stater here. Sorry about your recent troubles)

And we'll all be especially proud to wear our Pats' gear after the next Super Bowl.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

We are the raiders. We aren't the yankees. We are way beyond that.

We don't care about sportmanship. We care about winning. If we break rules and caught, we will own up to it and pay our penalties. We don't care what anyone thinks. We are proud, load and arrogant. We have the right. We are the best there is.

And we are surprised when the media and others are negative toward us. Why can't they all just accept hjow great we are? Anyone who disagrees with us is an idiot. We should tear down the CBA and NFL because we were punished.

We are NOT America's team. We cannot be. We are Boston fans. We are not Dallas. We are San Francisco. We are not Pittsburgh. We are not Indy. We are not Chicago. In 2003 and 2004 we were becoming America's team, but we couldn't stand it.

We are Boston and stick to anyone who doen't think that we the greatest on the face of the earth.
========================================

I am embarrassed with us. We cannot even begin to consider it looks to be proud about breaking the rules. We cannot even begin to consider how this looks to those who don't live in Boston. I thought that I had seen it all when I saw our reaction to Harrison's suspension. I thought that perhaps that wasn't the real Boston fan. I was wrong. We are Boston fans. We want to win and nothing else matters.
=========================================

Let Kraft make whatever statements he needs to make, and let's move on to football. He is the best owner in sports today, and runs the best organization.

Uh...umm...I've lived in New York for the past 15 years or so and you sure...well...kind of...uh...just a little bit...sort of...kind of...don't take this personally...but you sound like a Yankee's fan...

gotta go real fast...

 

[STFarmy]

Good I hope they have a bad boy image now. People have hated them for years now, going all the way back when a ragtag bunch of no names and a back-up quarterback beat the greatest show on turf. They should play it up in a "we never got respect" manner anyway. Of course that isn't true, but I will enjoy watching it.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Good I hope they have a bad boy image now. People have hated them for years now, going all the way back when a ragtag bunch of no names and a back-up quarterback beat the greatest show on turf. They should play it up in a "we never got respect" manner anyway. Of course that isn't true, but I will enjoy watching it.

The greatest show on turf would have won that game if Belichick didn't use those cameras to steal Rams offensive calls and shut down the passing game of the Rams in SB 36 according to many opinions

 

[Ring 6]

We are the raiders. We aren't the yankees. We are way beyond that.

We don't care about sportmanship. We care about winning. If we break rules and caught, we will own up to it and pay our penalties. We don't care what anyone thinks. We are proud, load and arrogant. We have the right. We are the best there is.

And we are surprised when the media and others are negative toward us. Why can't they all just accept hjow great we are? Anyone who disagrees with us is an idiot. We should tear down the CBA and NFL because we were punished.

We are NOT America's team. We cannot be. We are Boston fans. We are not Dallas. We are San Francisco. We are not Pittsburgh. We are not Indy. We are not Chicago. In 2003 and 2004 we were becoming America's team, but we couldn't stand it.

We are Boston and stick to anyone who doen't think that we the greatest on the face of the earth.
========================================

I am embarrassed with us. We cannot even begin to consider it looks to be proud about breaking the rules. We cannot even begin to consider how this looks to those who don't live in Boston. I thought that I had seen it all when I saw our reaction to Harrison's suspension. I thought that perhaps that wasn't the real Boston fan. I was wrong. We are Boston fans. We want to win and nothing else matters.
=========================================

Let Kraft make whatever statements he needs to make, and let's move on to football. He is the best owner in sports today, and runs the best organization.

Mg,

Wow.
Where do I start.
I guess I do not know who you refer to as "we".
I am glad we are not Pittsburgh, who were the worst steroid offenders in league history.
I am gald we are not Chicago who outside of 1985 are a franchise that has always lost.
I am glad we are not SF who had ownership put in prison, and willingly violated the salary cap.
I am glad we are not Indy, who abandoned their fans in Mayflower moving vans.
I am glad we are not Dallas, the NFL center of drug abuse when they were winning.
We are a franchise that has committed ONE INDISCRETION. Apparently to you that means we are scum. What franchise has not committed one indiscretion? Certainly not the ones you mentioned.

Are you really trying to tell me that you root for a football team assuming they are morally perfect, and are stunned and astounded when, like every other football team they are not? Your post strikes me as immature or obtuse.

You end your diatribe with a salute to Bob Kraft. How can you be embarrassed by the Patriots, and hold the OWNER, the man with ultimate decision making power to be harmless?
You seem to be trending toward giving Bob Kraft the credit for this teams success, rather than Bill Belichick. That seems inconsistent to me. Kraft had nothing to do with what happened on the field, outside of hiring Belichick. If he deserves credit as the reason this team has been successful, it is solely because of that decision, which means he would equally deserve the criticism for causing your state of embarassment.

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

Mg,

Wow.
Where do I start.
I guess I do not know who you refer to as "we".
I am glad we are not Pittsburgh, who were the worst steroid offenders in league history.
I am gald we are not Chicago who outside of 1985 are a franchise that has always lost.
I am glad we are not SF who had ownership put in prison, and willingly violated the salary cap.
I am glad we are not Indy, who abandoned their fans in Mayflower moving vans.
I am glad we are not Dallas, the NFL center of drug abuse when they were winning.
We are a franchise that has committed ONE INDISCRETION. Apparently to you that means we are scum. What franchise has not committed one indiscretion? Certainly not the ones you mentioned.

Are you really trying to tell me that you root for a football team assuming they are morally perfect, and are stunned and astounded when, like every other football team they are not? Your post strikes me as immature or obtuse.

You end your diatribe with a salute to Bob Kraft. How can you be embarrassed by the Patriots, and hold the OWNER, the man with ultimate decision making power to be harmless?
You seem to be trending toward giving Bob Kraft the credit for this teams success, rather than Bill Belichick. That seems inconsistent to me. Kraft had nothing to do with what happened on the field, outside of hiring Belichick. If he deserves credit as the reason this team has been successful, it is solely because of that decision, which means he would equally deserve the criticism for causing your state of embarassment.

I am glad we are not the Detroit Lions or I'd be sticking a gun in my mouth!

 

[Real World]

Shank Shaugnessey is the ultimate fair weather friend. If you win a championship, he'll gladly write a book about you an dcapitalize on the public's interest. But he certainly does enjoy kicking you when you're down.

Shank's a yahoo that's why. What else would you expect from Boston media?

 

[CopenhagenPatsfan]

I think he might of really left, he hasn't responded to any replies to his post.



Good riddence.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Well that is an nice exercise in logic by the tax lawyer but the rule is rather simple in enforcement. This is because it states nowhere on its face that it need be proved that the team actually DID gain a same game advantage, only that it did gather the information in the prohibited manner against a team it was currently facing. Looks like the commissioner decided to take the rule literally. The Pats are thus a 1st round pick poorer. I wonder if BB consulted a lawyer before responding to the commissioner's inquiry? I sure hope so.

BTW concerning original poster, I think he is being a bit melodramatic, but he shouldn't be ripped so badly for stating an opinion. As much as I may disagree with it. The Pats were engaging in a behavior 'signal stealing' that is common in this league, where they erred was the manner of it, ie using the camera instead of using assistant coaches with sharp eyes like everyone else, or perhaps using a mic like the dolphins did since there doesn't seem to be a rule against mics. The NFL's ultimate message - if you're gonna cheat, do it in a way not proscribed by the rules or we're going to throw the book at you.

I think you may be buying into the media hype going on and the
tons of jealous lynch mobsters out there.

Acutally Belichick may have been right but the Comish was really being pushed into this outcome.

Here a response from a JETs fan who also a Tax Lawyer
-------------------------------------------------------
The argument, I take it, is that (1) the rule's reference to "a game" is the SAME game in which the taping occurs, and (2) so long as the information is not used during such game the gathering of such information is not prohibited.

I actually don't think it's that absurd an interpretation. Indeed, that's the kind of distinction on which many tax positions (I'm a tax lawyer) are based. Indeed, it's interesting to note that the rule only applies to a game in which the team gathering the information is a participant. Presumably it's clear that the rule is not violated if the Pats send an assistant to a Jets-Ravens game and videotape the Jets coaches relaying signals for use in a later game. So, this supports the conclusion that the rule was designed solely to prevent teams from using certain devices to gather information to gain a SAME-GAME advantage.

The real focus, I think, should be on the term "might". The rule prohibits the use of certain devices to gather information that "might" be used to gain an advantage during the game. The Pats presumably contend that, because they didn't actually gain such a same-game advantage, the rule wasn't broken. (Whether they actually did get such an advantage is unknowable, but the Commissioner can't assume they did.) I think the Commissioner properly took the view that the rule is designed to prevent the gathering of information (through certain devices) that potentially COULD be used for a same-game advantage and that the rule was drafted in this way so that it would not be necessary to resolve the difficult factual question of how, and when, a team actually used the information.

Nevertheless, it is not all that outlandish for the Pats to take the position that the rule is ambiguous and, therefore, pending clarification, they should not be punished for taking a reasonable view.

(Of course, if the Pats actually gained a same-game advantage, there's no interpretation that could help them. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if they did; but since I understand that hasn't been proven, it's not appropriate to simply assume it.)

And for anyone here who thinks I have some obligation to take the party line, or "get their back", or not side with "them" against "us", sorry: I have the right to offer my honest opinion.


---------------------------------------

 

[SoonerPatriot]

Dumbest. Post. Ever. Of course considering the source, it's no surprise.

Go ahead and turn in your colors. Cut and run, yellow belly. As someone else said, nobody will care.

 

[Pats Fanatic]

LOL!

Great tragedies in US modern history:

1) 09/11
2) The Civil War
3) Kennedy assasination
4) Serial killers
5) Bill Belichick's fall from the pedastal

How the hell could you forget Paris Hilton getting a parking ticket.

 

[N.Eman]

We are the raiders. We aren't the yankees. We are way beyond that.

We don't care about sportmanship. We care about winning. If we break rules and caught, we will own up to it and pay our penalties. We don't care what anyone thinks. We are proud, load and arrogant. We have the right. We are the best there is.

And we are surprised when the media and others are negative toward us. Why can't they all just accept hjow great we are? Anyone who disagrees with us is an idiot. We should tear down the CBA and NFL because we were punished.

We are NOT America's team. We cannot be. We are Boston fans. We are not Dallas. We are San Francisco. We are not Pittsburgh. We are not Indy. We are not Chicago. In 2003 and 2004 we were becoming America's team, but we couldn't stand it.

We are Boston and stick to anyone who doen't think that we the greatest on the face of the earth.
========================================

I am embarrassed with us. We cannot even begin to consider it looks to be proud about breaking the rules. We cannot even begin to consider how this looks to those who don't live in Boston. I thought that I had seen it all when I saw our reaction to Harrison's suspension. I thought that perhaps that wasn't the real Boston fan. I was wrong. We are Boston fans. We want to win and nothing else matters.
=========================================

Let Kraft make whatever statements he needs to make, and let's move on to football. He is the best owner in sports today, and runs the best organization.

I feel the same way.....from all the way down here in Belize, Central America.....WHO CARES!!!!!!! HERE COME THE PATS!!!

 

[DarrylS]

I am upset as a Pats Fan, do not like the outcome.. feel a little embarassed, to say this has been bothering me all week is an understatement.

With all this being said, I really believe that BB misinterpreted the rule, he was taping for his video files.. not for game one upsmanship. I am a Pats fan forever, always have been and always will be proud of what has happened here. Nonthing can change how I feel.

This is a bump in the road, made worse by Mangini's squeeling to his friend Cimini and all the press sensing BB's vulnerability piled on and made a **** storm out of a very minor situation. While we are embarassed and angry now, in the long run..Mangini will be the looser. How do you turn on someone, who took you from ballboy to an Defensive Coordinator in the NFL??

The Red, Blue and Silver look even better now than they ever did.

 

[Turk]

We are the raiders. We aren't the yankees. We are way beyond that.

We don't care about sportmanship. We care about winning. If we break rules and caught, we will own up to it and pay our penalties. We don't care what anyone thinks. We are proud, load and arrogant. We have the right. We are the best there is.

And we are surprised when the media and others are negative toward us. Why can't they all just accept hjow great we are? Anyone who disagrees with us is an idiot. We should tear down the CBA and NFL because we were punished.

We are NOT America's team. We cannot be. We are Boston fans. We are not Dallas. We are San Francisco. We are not Pittsburgh. We are not Indy. We are not Chicago. In 2003 and 2004 we were becoming America's team, but we couldn't stand it.

We are Boston and stick to anyone who doen't think that we the greatest on the face of the earth.
========================================

I am embarrassed with us. We cannot even begin to consider it looks to be proud about breaking the rules. We cannot even begin to consider how this looks to those who don't live in Boston. I thought that I had seen it all when I saw our reaction to Harrison's suspension. I thought that perhaps that wasn't the real Boston fan. I was wrong. We are Boston fans. We want to win and nothing else matters.
=========================================

Let Kraft make whatever statements he needs to make, and let's move on to football. He is the best owner in sports today, and runs the best organization.

Good luck with the door and your arse...

Not before relinquishing your duties as mod, that is...

The rest of us will go on being proud fans of this great organization because the only thing that has transpired is that Goodell has exposed himself and the NFL for the frauds that they are, just like the rest of the idiots coming out of the woodworks, who have never spoken once against their own teams' / team-mates' indulgence in steroids, creative contracts to get over the salary cap, men with binoculars and 2-way radios in the stands / boxes, and all the rest of the questionable tactics.

Stupid? Yes.
Shameful? Heck no. Not even close.

 

[scout]

Not to pile on..........skrew it. I'm one of the first people on this board to yell out homer when the local masses get upset about criticism aimed at a Patriot.
But to show disrespect to Bill Belichick because you disagree with an incident that maybe pushes the envelope a little further then other NFL teams, that is repugnant. The vast majority on this site stand firmly behind BB, and I'll wager that the locker room feels the same way. Heck, the majority of posters ranting about BB this week were imposter's or newbies without friends. The Oakland freakin' Raiders? When did we start employing outlaw players? Research every team for the last 10 years and come back and tell me how many have cleaner slates compared to the Patriots. I guess it depends if you consider videotaping defensive signals a worse crime then......drafting sex offenders, playing murderers, dog fighting organizer and participant, how about them Bengals, assaulting your spouse, salary cap infringement, etc, etc. I guess you've never had any indiscretions in your life, or maybe none that were broadcast over the country and beyond.