Not to beat a dead animal, but

[Ring 6]

I know the board is full of all the crap about the camera issue. Personally, I will wait until comment comes from ANYONE that is actually INVOLVED.
Since ESPN INCORRECTLY reported that the league found the Pats guilty (incorrect because the league has said no decision has been reached and ESPNs report was false) there are 100s of stories drawing conclusions based upon that incorrect fact. The media and internet housewives have added dozens of layers of speculation on top of reality, and reached a conclusion from that.

I have a question though, that I have not seen anwered.
From what I have read, I'm seeing it implied that Mangini knew of the possiblity this would happen, and alerted stadium and NFL security. It would follow that this alert was BEFORE the game. Security responded by confiscating the camera. WHEN did this occur?
If this is going to be called cheating and have Pat-haters imply that it influenced the game, wouldn't it be important to know how long the cameraman was taping?

 

[DarrylS]

From reports all we seem to know is that he was confronted about 8 minutes into the game... there was a report that he was escorted off followed by a confrontation/discussion between Pats and Jets Security, and the police were almost called in.

 

[BelichickFan]

I have a question though, that I have not seen anwered.
From what I have read, I'm seeing it implied that Mangini knew of the possiblity this would happen, and alerted stadium and NFL security. It would follow that this alert was BEFORE the game. Security responded by confiscating the camera. WHEN did this occur?
If this is going to be called cheating and have Pat-haters imply that it influenced the game, wouldn't it be important to know how long the cameraman was taping?

By all accounts the camera was confiscated before halftime. Whether that was in the first quarter, second quarter of just before halftime is debatable it seems. Regardless, NFL security had the camera and tape at halftime. No filming had any bearing on the second half and it's not reasonable that it would have in any game anyway when you go through the sequence of events it would take to use the film later in that game.

 

[DaBruinz]

By all accounts the camera was confiscated before halftime. Whether that was in the first quarter, second quarter of just before halftime is debatable it seems. Regardless, NFL security had the camera and tape at halftime. No filming had any bearing on the second half and it's not reasonable that it would have in any game anyway when you go through the sequence of events it would take to use the film later in that game.

Filming had no bearing on ANY part of the game. Not even the 1st half.

 

[Crowpointer]

When I read "beat a dead animal" I thought it was going to be about Mangina.

 

[BelichickFan]

Filming had no bearing on ANY part of the game. Not even the 1st half.

Right, I said the second half as that's what most are pointing to where we used the tape to "cheat".

To use it they'd have to :

Get the tape.
Get the coaches tape.
Synch the two up.
Chart each play, sign to defense.
Have someone see the sign, recognize from the chart and signal it in.

It's ridiculous.

 

[DaBruinz]

What I would REALLY like to know is if the tape actually had ANYTHING on it. I'd laugh if the "tape" was blank and had never been recorded on.

j

 

[JoeSixPat]

People are going to need to have a thick skin about this and not care what other fans or team players say....

The vast majority are uninformed and are aghast at the thought that another team would steal signals

We now all know that not only is that common - its allowed by the rules and one can safely assume all teams are on an even playing field.

The distinction of how or why a recording device provides any potential additional advantage - and whether the Patriots were in fact benefitting in that manner (no one has yet really explained how there is an advantage and therefore how BB's statement that its for analysis later doesn't hold water) is another matter

But to hear players agahst that the team was stealing calls when they know its commonly done is disingenous - they should be ashamed of themselves... the fans lack of knowledge is a little more understandable.

 

[BelichickFan]

People are going to need to have a thick skin about this and not care what other fans or team players say....

Yeah, I got in a fight with my Eagles' fan "friend" on my fantasy message board. Should have ignored him. Bullcrap about excuses why the 3 point loss in the SB the Eagles took maybe wasn't legit.

Blah blah blah.

I just called him a moron and moved on. Nothing else to do.

 

[mosi]

The NFL has done a terrible job at controlling this story. Just terrible. If they say that the Patriots cheated, that puts a stigma on the entire league for the last 6 years. There is now way the NFL can allow that to be believed.

But with the current media frenzy, if they just say that BB broke the rules, but they did not effect the outcome of any games, will the media dogs be happy?

The NFL should have come in early and stated the facts so this did not become a sideshow. This commissioner is becoming a joke.

 

[oldskool138]

People are going to need to have a thick skin about this and not care what other fans or team players say....

The vast majority are uninformed and are aghast at the thought that another team would steal signals

It's like that scene in "Casablanca" where the police inspector tells the government authorities that he's "Shocked!" to learn that gambling is going on at Rick's...while one of his underlings is trying to give him his earning from the gambling ring.

This is going on all over the league and I'm not going to let fans or the media get under my skin. I'm not going to all of a sudden start booing the Pats or become a fan of another team.

 

[Pedrorocks458]

Right, I said the second half as that's what most are pointing to where we used the tape to "cheat".

To use it they'd have to :

Get the tape.
Get the coaches tape.
Synch the two up.
Chart each play, sign to defense.
Have someone see the sign, recognize from the chart and signal it in.

It's ridiculous.

Do coaches receive tape at halftime? I read they just get pre-snap and post-snap photos. Meaning that these signals would just be matched to what Brady was already seeing. Makes no sense to use it in-game even if they get coaches tape. It takes a long time to break down film; couldn't be done in halftime.

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

Right, I said the second half as that's what most are pointing to where we used the tape to "cheat".

To use it they'd have to :

Get the tape.
Get the coaches tape.
Synch the two up.
Chart each play, sign to defense.
Have someone see the sign, recognize from the chart and signal it in.

It's ridiculous.

That's actually not true. They could run the live feed from the camera straight to the coaches booth and the Pats could make adjustment play to play by seeing the Jets defensive signal, then speaking to Tom Brady over the headset to audible at the line based on the signal.

 

[BelichickFan]

Do coaches receive tape at halftime? I read they just get pre-snap and post-snap photos. Meaning that these signals would just be matched to what Brady was already seeing. Makes no sense to use it in-game even if they get coaches tape. It takes a long time to break down film; couldn't be done in halftime.

That was basically my point. I don't know if they get the coaches' tape but I highly doubt it. Which ends any realistic usage. But even if they did they could never get it synced up and analyzed. It just shows how stupid the whole cheating thing is.

 

[DaBruinz]

That's actually not true. They could run the live feed from the camera straight to the coaches booth and the Pats could make adjustment play to play by seeing the Jets defensive signal, then speaking to Tom Brady over the headset to audible at the line based on the signal.

This is false. They could NOT do this. First and foremost, that sort of live feed would have to be done with a wire more than likely. You can't do that from the field all the way up to the coaches booth.

Secondly, they don't allow video playing equipment in the booth. The only equipment allowed is the monitors with feeds that the NFL installed cameras provide and the video capture equipment that provides the still shots for coaches.

Also, the QB headset shuts off with 10 seconds remaining on the play clock. So its nearly impossible to get that information transfered down to the QB in the time you are suggesting. Which is less than 15 seconds.

 

[DaBruinz]

That was basically my point. I don't know if they get the coaches' tape but I highly doubt it. Which ends any realistic usage. But even if they did they could never get it synced up and analyzed. It just shows how stupid the whole cheating thing is.

There is no video playing or recording allowed in the locker-rooms. Coaches can not get game film at the time. All they get are the still shots from upstairs.

 

[DarrylS]

That's actually not true. They could run the live feed from the camera straight to the coaches booth and the Pats could make adjustment play to play by seeing the Jets defensive signal, then speaking to Tom Brady over the headset to audible at the line based on the signal.

Think AJ has a better handle this, and I have pretty much contended the same thing, there is so much technology available in this day and age.. if it was to be used in the second half, why would they have a guy who everyone knows on the Jets filming from the Pats sidelines.. It would make more sense to hide it from someplace else in the stadium and use a more efficient technology.

 

[letekro]

That's actually not true. They could run the live feed from the camera straight to the coaches booth and the Pats could make adjustment play to play by seeing the Jets defensive signal, then speaking to Tom Brady over the headset to audible at the line based on the signal.

Do you have any technical explanation for how this would be possible.

If not, why do you bother?

 

[njpatsfan]

That's actually not true. They could run the live feed from the camera straight to the coaches booth and the Pats could make adjustment play to play by seeing the Jets defensive signal, then speaking to Tom Brady over the headset to audible at the line based on the signal.

Thanks to the folks who have debunked this so quickly.

It's bad enough that every fan site has become tin foil hat conspiracy factories - without us Patriots fans adding to the mess.

R

 

[Ring 6]

That's actually not true. They could run the live feed from the camera straight to the coaches booth and the Pats could make adjustment play to play by seeing the Jets defensive signal, then speaking to Tom Brady over the headset to audible at the line based on the signal.

When did you inspect the camera and determine it was equipped for a live feed?