Tiki and Ronde Barber: "Everyone does it and everyone knows it"

[BelichickFan]

"against league policy", why do you think that it's against league policy, just for kicks? It's against league policy because it would give one team a competitive advantage, therefore, it's cheating. I'm as big a Pats fan as anyone, but I really think people are burying their heads in the sand if they think what the Pats were doing isn't cheating.

There's a league policy on how how players have to wear their socks too.

 

[Fahrenhype]

So the Patriots do it, the Bucs do it, and Peter King says the Colts do it. Now all we need to know is if the Steelers do it. Keeping going down the rabbit hole NFL, lets find out the past six superbowl wins were fraudulent.

And how crazy is Mangina to do this? If the Patriots have been cheating for all these years than his credentials to become a head coach in the first place were non-existent.

Even if the penalty is relatively mild, the damage has been done for at least this week. I don't see a win on Sunday after this monumental distraction. But if the Pats did something wrong punish them, and then be prepared to expose the other teams that are doing the same thing. This could be a risky move on the NFL's part after already having their worst PR year in a long time.

 

[DarrylS]

I don't see a win on Sunday after this monumental distraction.

Not sure they will win or loose because of what happens yesterday or today, sometimes these polarizing events give this team incentive.

 

[PatsRI]

So the Patriots do it, the Bucs do it, and Peter King says the Colts do it. Now all we need to know is if the Steelers do it. Keeping going down the rabbit hole NFL, lets find out the past six superbowl wins were fraudulent.

And how crazy is Mangina to do this? If the Patriots have been cheating for all these years than his credentials to become a head coach in the first place were non-existent.

Even if the penalty is relatively mild, the damage has been done for at least this week. I don't see a win on Sunday after this monumental distraction. But if the Pats did something wrong punish them, and then be prepared to expose the other teams that are doing the same thing. This could be a risky move on the NFL's part after already having their worst PR year in a long time.

Good point, I also wonder what can of sh*t they are opening up by pissing BB off like this, this is a guy who's been involved in the league for over 30 years. Now I think he wouldn't do it but then again...couldn't he now expose just about every trick that any team does to gain (catchphrase of the week) competitive advantage? I'm sure there is an unwritten "turn the other way" about all the crap that goes on that has been followed until now. Are all bets off becuase of this?

 

[Grogan's neck roll]

Is stealing signs via other methods besides videotaping cheating? Like that the Dolphins did last year? Is that cheating in the league today? Yes or no?

Because the Dolphins story made it clear that sign stealing is part of football. the league didn't care at all.

If it's the methods that are being legislated and not the act of sign stealing, I think that's way different than what the hysterical talking heads have been saying.

The edict that came from the NFL this offseason was pretty clear in that they were emphasizing no video equipment on the sidelines, in the coaches' box or in the locker room. Where is the ambiguity? The Pats intentionally ignored the rule. You can rationalize all you want, but they were cheating. Does it take away from their win? No. Does it tarnish their reputation? I'm sure in a lot of people's eyes it does.

 

[BelichickFan]

Now I think he wouldn't do it but then again...couldn't he now expose just about every trick that any team does to gain (catchphrase of the week) competitive advantage? I'm sure there is an unwritten "turn the other way" about all the crap that goes on that has been followed until now. Are all bets off becuase of this?

I don't think he would. He might hint at it to Goodall for leniency but I think Belichick would rather go down quietly than to be a turncoat snitch like someone else turned out to be.

 

[PonyExpress]

The edict that came from the NFL this offseason was pretty clear in that they were emphasizing no video equipment on the sidelines, in the coaches' box or in the locker room. Where is the ambiguity? The Pats intentionally ignored the rule. You can rationalize all you want, but they were cheating. Does it take away from their win? No. Does it tarnish their reputation? I'm sure in a lot of people's eyes it does.

On the contrary it is you who has his head in a ditch. YOU don't seem to understand that all teams engage in this kind of gamesmanship. YOU don't seem to understand that this "infraction" is more worthy of a comedy sketch than indignation. YOU seem to have your panties in a bunch over these over the top insinuations. YOU need to settle down and wait for Mr. Kraft and BB express their side of the story. Until then, all of your handwringing is premature.

 

[Fahrenhype]

Not sure they will win or loose because of what happens yesterday or today, sometimes these polarizing events give this team incentive.

If it turns out to be BS I can see it infuriating them, which could work, but I still believe going into a game with a cool, focused mind is much better. Let the Charges get worked up over a team celebrating after a win (OMG The Colts were happy they won the AFC Title game, what a bunch of ****s!) while the Pats focus on the game plan. That isn't going to happen though, not this week.

Now if we can confirm that the tape was confiscated at halftime I'd like some explanation as to how this helped them score 14 points off of a kick return and Brady to Moss pass in the second half.

Somebody broke a rule having that camera there, that much is certain, if it was the Pats deliberate decision, whatever penalty they get hit with is justified. I'm just starting to think that if this is as prevalent as some claim the NFL is opening a can of worms that may be hard to put the lid back on.

People in stone houses shouldn't throw glasses, or some such...

I'm sure there is an unwritten "turn the other way" about all the crap that goes on that has been followed until now. Are all bets off becuase of this?

I'd say all respect for unspoken rules goes out the window now. Anyone really think Belichick makes the trip to New York without having enough info to take a proverbial dump on Goodell's desk? He may be crazy, but he's also calculating.

 

[Bella*chick]

The edict that came from the NFL this offseason was pretty clear in that they were emphasizing no video equipment on the sidelines, in the coaches' box or in the locker room. Where is the ambiguity? The Pats intentionally ignored the rule. You can rationalize all you want, but they were cheating. Does it take away from their win? No. Does it tarnish their reputation? I'm sure in a lot of people's eyes it does.

Yes, I know that.

But the videotaping is only a method of doing something that is apparently perfectly legal (stealing signs).

That is flat out different than "you were caught stealing signs which no one does in the NFL".

Did we break a rule? Yup. We'll be punished. But not for "sign stealing". For illegal use of a camera.

There's a distinction. It may not be good enough for you, but I can't control what you think anyway. As fot the rest of NFL fans, they are happy to see us in trouble and couldn't care less about what the rules actually are. They still think sign stealing is the problem here.

 

[upstater1]

"against league policy", why do you think that it's against league policy, just for kicks? It's against league policy because it would give one team a competitive advantage, therefore, it's cheating. I'm as big a Pats fan as anyone, but I really think people are burying their heads in the sand if they think what the Pats were doing isn't cheating.

I think it's cheating. But the NFL is ok with cheating. Did you read the NFL's verdict last year on the Dolphins incident? CHEATING IS OK. STEALING SIGNS IS OK.

Not to mention the fact that the fact that only QBs can receive transmissions allows the offense an advantage that unbalances the game against teams with better defenses.

 

[upstater1]

The edict that came from the NFL this offseason was pretty clear in that they were emphasizing no video equipment on the sidelines, in the coaches' box or in the locker room. Where is the ambiguity? The Pats intentionally ignored the rule. You can rationalize all you want, but they were cheating. Does it take away from their win? No. Does it tarnish their reputation? I'm sure in a lot of people's eyes it does.

Stick to the question. We're talking about cheating on the football field. You're now moving the argument away (and I know why). Videotaping is a rules violation. We agree. But it's not cheating. Using the signals one gets off the videotaping and employing them in a game is cheating. These are two different things. one is a rules violation. The other is cheating. Stick to the topic.

 

[Grogan's neck roll]

On the contrary it is you who has his head in a ditch. YOU don't seem to understand that all teams engage in this kind of gamesmanship. YOU don't seem to understand that this "infraction" is more worthy of a comedy sketch than indignation. YOU seem to have your panties in a bunch over these over the top insinuations. YOU need to settle down and wait for Mr. Kraft and BB express their side of the story. Until then, all of your handwringing is premature.

I'm settled, believe me, totally calm, no wedgies here. I am interested to see what the defense will be by both the organization and BB. But the "everyone does it" excuse is really lame. How well does it work when you get a speeding ticket? If you're a parent, and catch your kid drinking, does the "everyone does it" excuse work for you. If so, I'm glad I'm not your kid.

 

[Grogan's neck roll]

Stick to the question. We're talking about cheating on the football field. You're now moving the argument away (and I know why). Videotaping is a rules violation. We agree. But it's not cheating. Using the signals one gets off the videotaping and employing them in a game is cheating. These are two different things. one is a rules violation. The other is cheating. Stick to the topic.

If they weren't "using the signals one gets off the videotaping and employing them" then why even bother doing it? Why risk a draft pick, a fine, a suspension? Just because "everyone does it"?

 

[DarrylS]

If they weren't "using the signals one gets off the videotaping and employing them" then why even bother doing it? Why risk a draft pick, a fine, a suspension? Just because "everyone does it"?

Why don't you try to explain how this would give the Pats a competitive advantage during this game, i.e cheating?? No one has demonstrated how the taping during this game would give them a competitive edge on Sunday.

 

[Grogan's neck roll]

Why don't you try to explain how this would give the Pats a competitive advantage during this game, i.e cheating?? No one has demonstrated how the taping during this game would give them a competitive edge on Sunday.

Happy to, and Schlereth (sp?) covered this on ESPN, he would know, being an ex-offensive lineman (which may be telling about the Broncos, but that's an argument for another time). You take the tape into the locker room at half time, you look at the signals alongside the stills of the pre-snap and post-snap polaroids that every team gets of every play, and you figure out when this hand signal goes in, these are the adjustments they make, so now we know what we need to do to counter that. In the second half, you have a jump on what the defense is doing. That's one example, I'm sure there are more that I'm not aware of.

 

[shakadave]

I think it's cheating. But the NFL is ok with cheating. Did you read the NFL's verdict last year on the Dolphins incident? CHEATING IS OK. STEALING SIGNS IS OK.

Not to mention the fact that the fact that only QBs can receive transmissions allows the offense an advantage that unbalances the game against teams with better defenses.

What WAS the Dolphins' punishment? I don't remember this incident.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

Happy to, and Schlereth (sp?) covered this on ESPN, he would know, being an ex-offensive lineman (which may be telling about the Broncos, but that's an argument for another time). You take the tape into the locker room at half time, you look at the signals alongside the stills of the pre-snap and post-snap polaroids that every team gets of every play, and you figure out when this hand signal goes in, these are the adjustments they make, so now we know what we need to do to counter that. In the second half, you have a jump on what the defense is doing. That's one example, I'm sure there are more that I'm not aware of.

Wasn't the camera confiscated in the first (or second?) quarter thereby removing any kind of 'early information' that the Pats could have had?

Another explanation could be that the Pats (and I guess every team) would be building its database for defensive signals of ALL teams - which explains why we probably might have done it against the Packers and Lions - knowing pretty well that there is always a chance that we might play any team later on that year or the next.

 

[Grogan's neck roll]

Wasn't the camera confiscated in the first (or second?) quarter thereby removing any kind of 'early information' that the Pats could have had?

Another explanation could be that the Pats (and I guess every team) would be building its database for defensive signals of ALL teams - which explains why we probably might have done it against the Packers and Lions - knowing pretty well that there is always a chance that we might play any team later on that year or the next.

Right, obviously there was not advantage gained for the Jets game, but if it hadn't been confiscated then the camera could have been used as I described.

 

[PatriotsReign]

You need to look no further then when the phins were caught last year doing this, how much play time did that story get last year, what maybe a minute or two then forgetten for good!

It's clear what the agenda of the media is, bill is not well liked by them and they are milking this story as much as they can! If the punishment is anything more then a late second day pick then it will also be clear what the nfl's agenda is also!

How can the NFL, the media and the opposing fans NOT LOVE the Patriots? We're virtually impossible NOT to love, I just don't understand any of this.

The Patriots virtually single handedly have made it "not cool" to be a show-boat payer or a player who want to be a star that shines alone. think about how many guys used to blame their teammates or the coaches. Now, it's chic to say "I don't want to talk about me, let talk about the New England Patrios".

People can deny the Patriots are responsible for this but they'd be lying. We were the first team to be introduced "As a Team" in our first superbowl victory against the Rams and now look at how many teams are mimicking us. Yes, there are many players & fans who want to be us. So if they can't be us, they try to knock us down.

THAT AINT GONNA HAPPEN!​

 

[BadMoFo]

EXXXXACTLLLLLLLLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

Thanks to the Barber Shop for telling it like it is.

You mean thanks for telling it like we want to hear it.