Asante Samuel and the "no franchise tag" agreement

[mcbee]

Now they have given up this option.
This is a cave in plain and simple.

It's not a cave if you give up something you under no circumstances would want anyway.

 

[alamo]

I don't think the pats want to do that under any circumstances. They don't even want to risk having the franchise out there, because if he signs it, it's guaranteeed. The pats would then have to RISK trying to trade him....and suppose they couldn't? Stuck with 10M to this jerk.

So the Pats basically gave up a right they didn't want anyway. Plus it says to samuel that he needs to play really hard in order to get his big money.

What's kind of confusing is the "we won't franchise you if you play in x% of the plays"....well if he plays in less than x%, why would you WANT to franchise him? He'd either be injured or a malcontent.

You answered your own question, without realizing it. You gave a series of arguments why they would never franchise him, then you wonder why they have retained that right under some circumstances.

It's obvious! It's because your earlier assertion that they would never consider franchising him next year is just plain wrong. If they didn't care, as you say they don't, they would have completed this deal in July.

 

[mcbee]

You answered your own question, without realizing it. You gave a series of arguments why they would never franchise him, then you wonder why they have retained that right under some circumstances.

It's obvious! It's because your earlier assertion that they would never consider franchising him next year is just plain wrong. If they didn't care, as you say they don't, they would have completed this deal in July.

So they would franchise him if he doesn't play much. That makes sense to you.

Nothing you said indicates they wanted this right. You have no basis for saying he would have shown up if they had done this in July. Maybe Samuel wanted to threaten to hold out hoping he would get a long term deal with another team. That would make sense. When he didn't get that and realized he'd have to show up, the Pats were willing to throw him this bone, seeing as how they don't want to pay this guy 10M next year anyway.

Yes, that is logical. Paying 10M to a one year wonder...seems unlikely.

 

[drakesta101]

I'm going to preface this by saying this is a really optimistic spin/possibility/take on how the it might have played out:

Ok - Well I'd like to start off by saying I think the way the negotiations went down seems a tad strange. I mean, the Patriots could have made these concessions long ago, so why didn't they? Why didn't Asante call them and ask them for these demands on the phone?
Anyhow, Asante flew down on his own on Sunday Night, after publicly declaring he might hold out until week 10 during the summer. Most prognosticators suggested this was hogwash, citing the amount of money he was going to collect for all 17 weeks as a huge deterrent. Perhaps the Patriots were surprised by his actions to show up 2 weeks before the season instead of the day before to just collect his checks, and out of good faith for his return told him, "Asante, we are happy you decided to show when you did and we want to reward you...how about we agree to not tag you next year if you play a X number of plays or we win X number of games. Samuel holds the pen and says "Uhh Ya, let's get you on the phone with my agent and bang this thing out" Samuel in his head is thinking, wow this front office isn't so bad, maybe we can work out something long-term later after all. After the negotiations, Samuel is happy and motivated to play for the Patriots in 2007 and is quoted as saying the next day, per the Herald:
“I love my team. It’s always been a great organization. We’ve always had great fans, great players, great coaching. We’ve been doing good since I’ve been here. I’m happy to be here and I would love to be here for the rest of my career”

During the summer bridges were burned and a long-term deal was never hammered out. Maybe the Patriots really want this guy long-term and feel this is the best route in doing so. Negotiating with him after this season might be an easier task, as they Samuel's camp won't have that 10 interception stat or anything close to it, to lean on. Maybe they decided they weren't going to franchise him again anyways, so why not make him feel happy while he is here, with his play and mind unfettered by the thoughts of "great I'm playing my ass off only to be franchised again." Who knows what really happened behind those doors, but I think the front office knew what they were doing.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Win win if you ask me... any organization knows they need to use the Franchise tag carefully - and it is NOT meant to lock players up for multiple years either - just to transition.

Sending a message that the team is going to get tough and not give into ultimatums is good - but so too is realizing that a team doesn't do well to force disgruntled players to remain here.

It's all about balance - forcing Asante's hand to play this season, but giving a good faith opportunity to have him avoid a franchise tag next year strikes me as wise football politics.

 

[Water Boy]

Um...yes. I do. AND I think they'd give up a #1 pick to do it. But now they won't. Because the Patriots caved despite having all the leverage.

I agree. I'd rather see him sit out to week 10 this year, knowing that we could trade him for a high draft pick in the off season.

 

[dhamz]

I agree. I'd rather see him sit out to week 10 this year, knowing that we could trade him for a high draft pick in the off season.

And if someone were to tell you doing this costs the Pats HFA and another Super Bowl is it worth it?

No one knows for sure if that would have occurred but that possibility is what the front office was weighing when they made the decision. Every game counts in the AFC and being without their best corner for 10 weeks just so they could have the option to MAYBE franchise him again clearly wasn't something they were willing to do.

They waited him out in hopes he would report without the condition for next year. When it became clear to the Pats he wasn't going to play until week 10, they did what was best for winning football games this year over the chance that they could be better off years down the road by trading him for a pick. When you have a Super Bowl caliber team, that is what you have to do this time of year.

 

[KoolAidDrinker]

I'm glad he's back in camp. He appears happy and motivated. I think we are a better team with him than without him. I think the FO has done a great job this off season including bringing AS back into the fold. Now it's almost time to see how this season unfolds. This could be a VERY SPECIAL team. Can't wait!

 

[DaBruinz]

So it's really about the signing bonus.

But do you think anyone will give Asante Samuel a $20 million sigining bonus?!?!

I mean, in all truth, the guy has had one "star quality" season. Other than that, he has been good and solid, but not among the NFL elite.

He has to put a few of them together, ala Champ Bailey, Ty Law, et al, before we start talking about that kind of dough in Foxboro!

What WE want has NO BEARING on what the team feels is appropriate.

I agree, Samuel has only had one great season. He has issues with tackling. Unfortunately, there is something called market demand. The market demand wasn't such that Samuel could get a 20 million guaranteed contract from another team AND have that team give up 2 1st rounders. They'd be more than willing to sign him without the pick compensation.

Sameul and his agent DID have a point. Samuel was looking for the guaranteed money that he'd get if he was franchised by the Pats 3 straight years.. Where they failed was in the realization that the Pats wouldn't pay him like that.

Anyways, I think that all the stipulations are a smoke screen. I don't believe that the Patriots would have given up the franchise tag without the guarantee of a long term contract in place. Now, I KNOW they can't sign a long term deal now. But the Pats certainly COULD negotiate the contract and then negotiate an agreement where that contract would go into place as soon as the season ended. And that if Samuel didn't sign that agreed contract, then the Pats could slap him with the franchise tag.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Anyways, I think that all the stipulations are a smoke screen. I don't believe that the Patriots would have given up the franchise tag without the guarantee of a long term contract in place. Now, I KNOW they can't sign a long term deal now. But the Pats certainly COULD negotiate the contract and then negotiate an agreement where that contract would go into place as soon as the season ended. And that if Samuel didn't sign that agreed contract, then the Pats could slap him with the franchise tag.

No, they couldn't, because the agreement to not tag him is written in his contract, an agreement to enter a long term deal as soon as the season ends is the same as agreeing to a long term deal so it couldn't be written into the deal (which gets reviewed by the management council before it is in effect), and side agreements unless written are uninforceable.

This was a good faith gesture that is pretty indicative that they do really want him long term even if they haven't been able to come to terms this off season. I always felt that was the case once they didn't trade him by draft day. His value was likely never going to be higher. Buy low, sell high. They didn't. They are now in fact hoping that his value drops just a little, back into the very good young corner range (which is all they really need or can afford in this system) as opposed to being touted as a top 5. If it does they will be able to get a long term deal done. If it doesn't they will get a 3rd rounder in 2009 in compensation rather than a late first or more likely early second in 2008 (or 2009 first) which may seem to some to be a tremendous loss only because they aren't factoring in the value of the opportunity to play this out for another 6 months and potentially get a deal done with him that they can financially live with.

 

[Pats726]

No, they couldn't, because the agreement to not tag him is written in his contract, an agreement to enter a long term deal as soon as the season ends is the same as agreeing to a long term deal so it couldn't be written into the deal (which gets reviewed by the management council before it is in effect), and side agreements unless written are uninforceable.

This was a good faith gesture that is pretty indicative that they do really want him long term even if they haven't been able to come to terms this off season. I always felt that was the case once they didn't trade him by draft day. His value was likely never going to be higher. Buy low, sell high. They didn't. They are now in fact hoping that his value drops just a little, back into the very good young corner range (which is all they really need or can afford in this system) as opposed to being touted as a top 5. If it does they will be able to get a long term deal done. If it doesn't they will get a 3rd rounder in 2009 in compensation rather than a late first or more likely early second in 2008 (or 2009 first) which may seem to some to be a tremendous loss only because they aren't factoring in the value of the opportunity to play this out for another 6 months and potentially get a deal done with him that they can financially live with.

I think you got it all right here..they really were not caving in here..I think they knew they would not franchise him at that large amount of money..so in fact they really were giving up nothing. I agree this might be a high point..and with another stellar season..gone. But I think you are correct..just a bit down, he is affordable and will be a solid CB in their system. A long term deal is more probable now.

 

[cstjohn17]

I think you got it all right here..they really were not caving in here..I think they knew they would not franchise him at that large amount of money..so in fact they really were giving up nothing. I agree this might be a high point..and with another stellar season..gone. But I think you are correct..just a bit down, he is affordable and will be a solid CB in their system. A long term deal is more probable now.

They caved, no other way to put it. The odds of a long-term extension are virtually nill, right now there may be 'good will' and warm and fuzzy feeling but the day free agency starts the conversation is about 'getting paid'. The Patriots become just one of the many teams who will inquire about his service.

There is nothing wrong with their approach, they will get 5 years of service out a 4th round pick (3+ years as a starter). A very good investment, and as others have said they should get a 3rd or 4th round pick in 2009.

Where this will get really fun is if he misses the requirments to avoid the franchise (reported to be % of snaps or team wins). If he doesn't meet the requirements and the Patriots franchise him he will be so pissed! It will be great fun.

For now, welcome back #22 we are a better team with you.

 

[dhamz]

Where this will get really fun is if he misses the requirments to avoid the franchise (reported to be % of snaps or team wins). If he doesn't meet the requirements and the Patriots franchise him he will be so pissed! It will be great fun.

It would most likely be great fun for Samuel. If he doesn't make the snap % he probably had an injury plagued year and the day they slapped the 10m a year guarenteed tag on him he'd show up on their doorstep and sign it.

 

[cstjohn17]

It would most likely be great fun for Samuel. If he doesn't make the snap % he probably had an injury plagued year and the day they slapped the 10m a year guarenteed tag on him he'd show up on their doorstep and sign it.

Yes 'fun' is relative, I just mean we would have more garbage to worry about in the offseason, another pissing contest, another holdout threat, another player being disrespected, can't feed his famility, Patriots are cheap, yada, yada, yada.

 

[marcus]

Win Win for BOTH sides

Patriots get A very good cornerback for the full year highly motivated to record top notch performance.

Patriots will NOT have to break the bank next year for a very good but NOT great cornerback at big dollars


Assante can go get his well deserved pay day next year if he has an excellent year this year.


Makes sense. Good management
Shows good faith to other players also and keeps up morale

 

[MoLewisrocks]

They caved, no other way to put it. The odds of a long-term extension are virtually nill, they may be 'good will' and warm and fuzzy feeling but the day free agency starts the conversation is about 'getting paid'. The Patriots become just one of the many teams who will inquire about his service.

There is nothing wrong with their approach, they will get 5 years of service out a 4th round pick (3+ years as a starter). A very good investment, and as others have said they should get a 3rd or 4th round pick in 2009.

Where this will get really fun is if he misses the requirments to avoid the franchise (reported to be % of snaps or team wins). If he doesn't meet the requirements and the Patriots franchise him he will be so pissed! It will be great fun.

For now, welcome back #22 we are a better team with you.

Shawn Alexander says hi. The media thought it was a foolhardy move on the Seahawks part to waive the re tag to get him into camp in 2005 because he was sooooo gone to FA after the season. Then they signed him to a long term deal right after the season ended which he credited to the good will that concession generated allowing them to continue to talk throughout the season.

They didn't cave any more than they did when topping off Richard's bank account to get him in or shipping Branch to a new team willing to give him exactly what he wanted. The media here has built them up to be these bad asses who care more about winning the negotiation than winning the games. That is BS, always was, always will be. They won't overpay for talent, and in some cases they won't pay market for it depending on where it fits in their system. And they are somewhat reluctant to do more than toe the line until they are convinced they want or need to with a specific player. Bill is actually more of a real players coach than any of the huggers who get to wear that tag. He's honest with them and never BS's them. He never singles out players for media criticism, even when they hold out on him, he truly keeps it all in house, he always takes the lions share of the blame because even when they all screw up on the field he acknowledges that is a breakdown in coaching and preparation.

The snaps requirement is likely 75%. Asante made that and more last year and the year before that and the year before that. Briggs has that requirement in his deal and he reportedly is generally in on 90% of the snaps. Your best starters on defense usually are. The only way Asante doesn't meet or exceed those requirements, even if he has a less than pro bowl season, is if he's injured seriously or a lot or if we fail to win probably 11-12 games. In that case it's unlikely we re tag him since he'd be damaged goods with little open market trade value (at least comparatively speaking) who would sign that tag in a heartbeat, or we suddenly got bigger needs to spend or tie up that $10M on. If he has a good season but fails to pick in double digits, he likely drops off the pro bowl corner back radar screen. Although we've won Superbowls with him at LCB in years when he didn't pick 6. His love for us will wax and wane based almost entirely on how the media perceives his individual season. If he's suddenly not perceived as a top 5 corner but perhaps a top 10, we have a good shot at resigning him as long as BB feels he's still a #1 CB in this system. And while he may still want $20M+ guaranteed, he'll be inclined to see the rationale that he's already pocketed almost $8M of it, which is something his agent will make a point of if and when he spins a new long term deal for his player.

 

[cstjohn17]

1) Shawn Alexander says hi. The media thought it was a foolhardy move on the Seahawks part to waive the re tag to get him into camp in 2005 because he was sooooo gone to FA after the season. Then they signed him to a long term deal right after the season ended which he credited to the good will that concession generated allowing them to continue to talk throughout the season.

2) They didn't cave any more than they did when topping off Richard's bank account to get him in or shipping Branch to a new team willing to give him exactly what he wanted.

1) Goodwill plus $62M dollars.
2) They made concessions in those situations as well, lets remove the word 'cave', it somehow seems to make people mad and nervous that the unwavering Patriots FO actually has to play on the same field as everyone else.

It is called negotiation, and it is a two way street, nothing wrong with it at all. I am glad Samuel is here and ready to go.

Samual could sign with the Patriots or he could sign with one of the other 30 NFL teams. I don't think he is going to be listening to 'media wanes', he will look for the one team that pays him the dough. It may be the Patriots, it may not be.

 

[dhamz]

They made concessions in those situations as well, lets remove the word 'cave', it somehow seems to make people mad and nervous that the unwavering Patriots FO actually has to play on the same field as everyone else.

It is called negotiation, and it is a two way street, nothing wrong with it at all. I am glad Samuel is here and ready to go.

The word "cave" comes from those who think Samuel was powerless and the Pats had all the leverage. He had the leverage of witholding his services. They compromised and he is playing. I really don't see anything to get upset about.

 

[Pats726]

They caved, no other way to put it.

There is no way you can say that for sure..UNLESS you know what their long term thoughts are on him. They may be giving up something they did not want. They may be OK with the situation after this year. Keep repeating that..maybe if you say it a thousand times you'll get the truth of it.

 

[cstjohn17]

There is no way you can say that for sure..UNLESS you know what their long term thoughts are on him. They may be giving up something they did not want. They may be OK with the situation after this year. Keep repeating that..maybe if you say it a thousand times you'll get the truth of it.

Please read above, the word 'cave' is too harsh for these sensitive times. The Patriots 'compromised', 'negotiated' or 'made concessions' all of which are perfectly fine. Both sides seem happy, lets move on.