Reiss' take on the final roster

[PatsRI]

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2007/08/roster_thoughts.html

Thinks Vinny won't be on the roster to start if Gutierrez looks like he's going to get picked up by another team.
Troy on PUP to start the season
Mills cut and Thomas on PUP for TE
Has Lua and Rogers making it at LB
Tory James cut and Mike Richardson on IR or practice squad at DB
Questions whether Wilson (actually first I've seen it mentioned) was hurt Fri night, if so James sticks at CB

 

[Mike the Brit]

Cuts Mills AND Caldwell. Not afraid of blood!

 

[JDSal45]

I don't believe Richardson can go on PUP as he has practiced this year. Once you practice, even once, you're done as far as PUP goes. Obviously Richardson has done far more than practice. Its NOT a substitute for the IR. Its a list strictly for guys who came to camp already injured and unable to play. Once you play, the list can not apply to you for the entire year, I believe. So they either have to cut Richardson, keep him on the roster or IR him. He is obviously eligible for the practice squad if they cut him.

Edit: reading it, Reiss said IR or practice squad for Richardson, not PUP, so the above poster read it wrong. Also, I disagree with Reiss' logic about Caldwell being expensive. Who cares? They are far enough under the cap it makes little difference. Caldwell on or off the roster has zero effect on their ability to manage their roster, salary cap wise, this year, and its Caldwell's last year under contract. And I don't believe Kraft forces BB to make roster decisions on actual dollars basis. Thay would sure piss BB off and become dangerous ground.

J D Sal

 

[patsfaninpa]

Cuts Mills AND Caldwell. Not afraid of blood!

We might be able to get some conditional draft picks for some of these guys like; Caldwell and Mills. Maybe even for a rookie OL like Oldenberg if another liked him going into the draft.

 

[PatsRI]

I don't believe Richardson can go on PUP as he has practiced this year. Once you practice, even once, you're done as far as PUP goes. Obviously Richardson has done far more than practice. Its NOT a substitute for the IR. Its a list strictly for guys who came to camp already injured and unable to play. Once you play, the list can not apply to you for the entire year, I believe. So they either have to cut Richardson, keep him on the roster or IR him. He is obviously eligible for the practice squad if they cut him.

J D Sal

Actually my bad, he said IR not PUP

 

[RayClay]

Cuts Mills AND Caldwell. Not afraid of blood!

He said it was a money issue and if he saves money, Washington looks like a damn talented 5th receiver. Nothing against Reche.

You've got to keep Rivers over Mills, because he's a real NFL tight end. I said Mills needed to find a position and people jumped all over me.

There are only so many jobs and you don't get an extra roster spot to keep someone that's "versatile".

His job was the one held by Heath Evans,and he failed to win it.

Besides, I like Rivers. Too bad we have so much invested in tight ends, because someone will get a bargain when Thomas and Brady come back.

We have to keep man-mountain because our second bonus baby tight end can't block.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I'm a Reche fan and appreciate him carrying the fire last season but if it comes down to 5 vs 6 wideouts, I think that Washington has more upside potential as well as STs and Reche doesn't. Given that Reche isn't signed for 2008 either it makes sense to try potential, size, ST depth and youth. Don't see the cap issue Reiss is worried about UNLESS the Pats extend more players this season.

 

[DaBruinz]

Not sure why it would be a money issue to cut Caldwell. The problem is that the Pats have almost 9 million in space. So there really is no need to cut a player based on their contract. If they are cutting a player, it will be based on their play.

And I haven't seen anyone give any positive look on Washington regarding his special teams play. And that is really the only area he has over Caldwell.

 

[DaBruinz]

I'm a Reche fan and appreciate him carrying the fire last season but if it comes down to 5 vs 6 wideouts, I think that Washington has more upside potential as well as STs and Reche doesn't. Given that Reche isn't signed for 2008 either it makes sense to try potential, size, ST depth and youth.

What special teams potential do you see in Washington? I have only seen him late into plays and not able to be the blocks that he needs to beat as a gunner.

Washington isn't signed for 2008 either because I don't see him producing enough to earn the option bonus he would get.


Is Washington's play on special teams worth 577K? That is the difference there would be in cutting Caldwell, keeping Washington and adding the 52nd player.

 

[PatsRI]

What special teams potential do you see in Washington? I have only seen him late into plays and not able to be the blocks that he needs to beat as a gunner.

Washington isn't signed for 2008 either because I don't see him producing enough to earn the option bonus he would get.


Is Washington's play on special teams worth 577K? That is the difference there would be in cutting Caldwell, keeping Washington and adding the 52nd player.

I agree, I can't see cutting the #1 WR you had last year for Washington to save some money when it doesn't seem to be an issue.

 

[JDSal45]

I agree, I can't see cutting the #1 WR you had last year for Washington to save some money when it doesn't seem to be an issue.

Yeah, that seems to be a big screw up in logic with Reiss that you don't see often. Why cut a guy who is a solid player to create even more cap room when you have plenty already? Its not like all of a sudden Champ Bailey will be available and you'll need even MORE room to sign him. They couldn't use more cap room even if they had it. So why cut Caldwell? That is just silly logic on Reiss' part.

J D Sal

 

[Mike the Brit]

Yeah, that seems to be a big screw up in logic with Reiss that you don't see often. Why cut a guy who is a solid player to create even more cap room when you have plenty already? Its not like all of a sudden Champ Bailey will be available and you'll need even MORE room to sign him. They couldn't use more cap room even if they had it. So why cut Caldwell? That is just silly logic on Reiss' part.

J D Sal

If they can't find ways of using cap room this year (re-structures, LTBE incentives) to ease things for next year, then Pioli isn't earning his keep.

 

[Metaphors]

I agree, I can't see cutting the #1 WR you had last year for Washington to save some money when it doesn't seem to be an issue.

I can't see keeping Caldwell as a 5th receiver. Not so much to save money but to be fair to a hard-working veteran to find a better opportunity elsewhere. Won't get enough playing time to stay sharp, doesn't contribute on special teams, limited to no upside.

Even if you think Washington isn't the guy, the 5th WR is a special teams/prospect-with-potential position. Possibly even a gameday inactive. Look for Washington (potential/ST) or a youngster to grab that spot and keep it warm for CJ.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

What special teams potential do you see in Washington? I have only seen him late into plays and not able to be the blocks that he needs to beat as a gunner.

Washington isn't signed for 2008 either because I don't see him producing enough to earn the option bonus he would get.


Is Washington's play on special teams worth 577K? That is the difference there would be in cutting Caldwell, keeping Washington and adding the 52nd player.

I had noticed your prior postings asking for sightings of notable ST contributions by Washington and saw that they went unanswered. That's why potential is the keyword with Washington, not achievement. He does provide ST backup and insurance for inevitable injuries where Caldwell does not. I do not see cuting Reche as a money issue either as I stated. Pats have cap room.

If Gaffney is badly hurt enough for IR consideration, Caldwell should be a lock to stay.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I asked a question in anohte rpost. Pleaase rank the run blocking ability of the WRs. No one really questioned my ranking of Caldwell, then Washington , a step down to Gaffney/Stallworth and then Welker, who tries but is too small and bounces off his targets, and finally Moss, since we haven't seen him in a Pats uniform and he usedto be a "decoy block" more than anythng elsewhere..

I have now reviewed the big run by Heath Evans against Carolina. There were four key blocks that sprung him and turned the play from a 4 yard gain, into a 50 yard jaunt. Britt had one, as he came through his man into the secondary and got a LB. Mills had another, and Caldwell took his man and pushed him into another defender, thereby blocking two guys, as Evans went right by him into the open, and on his way. Without that double takeout, the play gets 4 or 5 yards and that is all.

Coaches notice those kind of little things we fans don't...

 

[Rob0729]

I'm a Reche fan and appreciate him carrying the fire last season but if it comes down to 5 vs 6 wideouts, I think that Washington has more upside potential as well as STs and Reche doesn't. Given that Reche isn't signed for 2008 either it makes sense to try potential, size, ST depth and youth. Don't see the cap issue Reiss is worried about UNLESS the Pats extend more players this season.

Neither Caldwell or Washington are really singed for 2008. Washington isn't going to get his option picked up if he is the #5 WR on this team. He will need to be a legitimate contender for a starting job to be on the roster in 2008 without being willing seriously renegotiate his contract.

Also, Kelly Washington was born August 21, 1979 and Reche Caldwell was born March 28, 1979. I don't know if Washington being 5 months younger than Caldwell gives him much of youth advantage.

 

[mgteich]

Sure, he'll do the same as last year and this. He'll simple not use the cap room and pass the money until 2009 or 2010.

If they can't find ways of using cap room this year (re-structures, LTBE incentives) to ease things for next year, then Pioli isn't earning his keep.

 

[signbabybrady]

I can't see keeping Caldwell as a 5th receiver. Not so much to save money but to be fair to a hard-working veteran to find a better opportunity elsewhere. Won't get enough playing time to stay sharp, doesn't contribute on special teams, limited to no upside.

Even if you think Washington isn't the guy, the 5th WR is a special teams/prospect-with-potential position. Possibly even a gameday inactive. Look for Washington (potential/ST) or a youngster to grab that spot and keep it warm for CJ.

Not sure why you think the 5th wide out wont be used much. when there are health issues with a few ahead of the fifth. plus we spread the ball around and use lots of spread formations.

 

[DaBruinz]

If they can't find ways of using cap room this year (re-structures, LTBE incentives) to ease things for next year, then Pioli isn't earning his keep.

Well, I agree that some of the money will be pushed into next year and they sure can use it since, by Miguel's calculations, the Pats are currently at around 5.2 million in free space.

But, attempting to push 6 or 7 million into next year will be hard to do, though it would make it easier to sign Samuel to a longer term deal, if he wants to sign.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Neither Caldwell or Washington are really singed for 2008. pwp= Agreed. I'd said 'either'. Washington isn't going to get his option picked up if he is the #5 WR on this team. He will need to be a legitimate contender for a starting job to be on the roster in 2008 without being willing seriously renegotiate his contract.

Yes, and a look at W under real game conditions is the real way to tell if picking up the option, even restructured, is a value play. Pre-season is preparation while regular season is against the big dogs. Let me re-phrase that...

Also, Kelly Washington was born August 21, 1979 and Reche Caldwell was born March 28, 1979. I don't know if Washington being 5 months younger than Caldwell gives him much of youth advantage.

Duh! So much for the yut angle.

Meanwhile, other posters have cited Caldwell's continued from 2006 excellent blocking. A point I'd overlooked that may well change the outcome.