Analyzing the O-Line's problems

[DaBruinz]

Re: Analyzing the O-lines problems

I feel a little better after reading this thread about the O line. Thanks to posts by Patsnutme. I'll take your word, Patsnutme.



I have to admit, Dabruinz that I agree with Bruschi 3:16. Not the Dunce reference part but you know what I mean.
In this post you point out Light's run blocking skills but that does not address the problem Matt has had and that is pass protection. The guy seems to get beat an awful lot.

No, actually Light wasn't beaten a whole lot. That's the problem. He wasn't. Go back and watch the tape, focusing strictly on the O-line. Light purposely takes VandenBosch wide and deep on numerous occasions to allow Brady an area to step up into.

As I said, there were only 2 bad plays by Light. One on the fumble and one where Light looked lost on the run play. Other than that, Light was amazingly solid. I can't say the same for Neal and Kaczur, though, and that is were Antwan Odom was lining up.

 

[Pawn512]

Re: Analyzing the O-lines problems

you're blaming Matt Light for the first pressure? It was a stunt. There is no way that is Light's fault. I think Mankins should have shifted and taken the stunt and Light should have slid over on Mankins guy.

It was both Light and Mankins fault. Light is supposed to see the end stunting and aggresively move over to engage the tackle, signaling Mankins to bump over and take the looping end. Picking up the "twist" as it is called is a constant to offensive line play from high school on up - everybody does it the same way. Its a pretty simple technique, but not necessarily easy to execute.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Analyzing the O-lines problems

It was both Light and Mankins fault. Light is supposed to see the end stunting and aggresively move over to engage the tackle, signaling Mankins to bump over and take the looping end. Picking up the "twist" as it is called is a constant to offensive line play from high school on up - everybody does it the same way. Its a pretty simple technique, but not necessarily easy to execute.

Light did that. Mankins didn't make the move on the stunt.

 

[DaBruinz]

Umm, you didn't see Light chasing after pass rushers from behind all last night? He is so damn slow these days that rushers go right around him. Kaczur ain't exactly Hannah either, but Light is the Jason Varitek of this team (painfully overrated, but for some reason a fan favorite).

*ROFLMAO* Nope. Light wasn't chasing after pass rushers all night especially since he was in only for the 1st 10 series (9 by Brady, 1 by Cassel). Light was driving them wide and deep allowing the QB an area to step up in....

Light wasn't perfect, but he wasn't the garbage you attempt to make him into with your poor understanding of the blocking.

 

[Crazyeechrispats1]

You guys are having a fit and thing to keep in mind is that they are doing a completely new blocking scheme.
There will be mental lapses, technique issues and at times will look ineffective
until they are fully comfortable with the new scheme.
All that being said I do not wanna see Brady take shots like that ever again for god sakes.
I think we will see the sporadic or as was dubbed the Jekyll and Hyde efficiency of the offensive line that looked downright offensive at times last night.
I expect to see a well oiled cohesive line by week 5 if not then maybe they should maybe mix both schemes or scrap the zone blocking all together.
I think the last thing we want to do is spend one of our 1st's on an offensive lineman unless another Walter Jones or Orlando Pace can be had next year.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

I've posted this before.

I think that they are having problems getting the zone blocking down. On the stunt that Brady got hit badly, there was no one picking up that gap. You could have sent a marching band through the hole that was created.

That's the bad news. The good news is Dante will correct this before the frirst regular season game.

The bad news is the O-Line kind of looks like last year, with everybody screwing up a couple plays leading to inconsistent protection.

The good news is that HOPEFULLY things will get better. But I will have to wait to see what happens in the regular season before I simply declare that they will get better.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Does anyone want to go out on a limb and say that the OL performs great against Carolina? I wouldn't be surprised one bit if it happened, even if against the likes of Peppers and Jenkins.

Considering that the OL has gone from hot to cold to hot to cold in the past, it would not be a surprise that they play well against Carolina and inconsistent the following week.

That would be the norm.

 

[Bruschi 3:16]

Re: Analyzing the O-lines problems

No only a blind ignorant person who doesn't understand the game would think that Like gotten beaten like a mule the entire night. Light had 2 bad plays in 10 series. two. That's it. One resulted in the fumble by Brady. One VandenBosch and Haynesworth seem to blow by Light, but the run play is already past the line of scrimmage up the middle. If anyone missed anything it was Mankins.

Someone obviously hasn't ever told you that you are clueless and don't know how to evaluate situations.

I bet you think that Light taking VandenBosch wide and deep on screens isn't designed, don't you? I bet you think that the TE taken VDB and Light moving up to block the LB at the 2nd level wasn't designed.

No, Bruinz, he had SEVERAL bad plays. Aside from the two that almost got Brady killed, but he was slow running tackle pulls every time they ran to the left. He has an extremely slow first step and its almost like he isn't sure what play they are running half the time.

I dont see how you can excuse how bad Light is in pass coverage now. Oh, and this is the prime role of a left tackle. Its great that he can open holes for running plays, but it doesn't excuse how pathetic he is in pass coverage now.

 

[363839]

Re: Analyzing the O-lines problems

No, actually Light wasn't beaten a whole lot. That's the problem. He wasn't. Go back and watch the tape, focusing strictly on the O-line. Light purposely takes VandenBosch wide and deep on numerous occasions to allow Brady an area to step up into.

As I said, there were only 2 bad plays by Light. One on the fumble and one where Light looked lost on the run play. Other than that, Light was amazingly solid. I can't say the same for Neal and Kaczur, though, and that is were Antwan Odom was lining up.

Ok, Dabruinz. If you have reviewed the game film and feel confident
in your post, I won't debate you. I didn't even see the game
I had to rely on the chat board pbp. Great job btw.
Doesn't Watson help out over there. I heard he was having issues.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Analyzing the O-lines problems

No, Bruinz, he had SEVERAL bad plays. Aside from the two that almost got Brady killed, but he was slow running tackle pulls every time they ran to the left. He has an extremely slow first step and its almost like he isn't sure what play they are running half the time.

I dont see how you can excuse how bad Light is in pass coverage now. Oh, and this is the prime role of a left tackle. Its great that he can open holes for running plays, but it doesn't excuse how pathetic he is in pass coverage now.

Actually the Patriots do considerably better running to the left, behind Light and Mankins.

And it's pass PROTECTION, not coverage.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Analyzing the O-lines problems

No, Bruinz, he had SEVERAL bad plays. Aside from the two that almost got Brady killed, but he was slow running tackle pulls every time they ran to the left. He has an extremely slow first step and its almost like he isn't sure what play they are running half the time.

I dont see how you can excuse how bad Light is in pass coverage now. Oh, and this is the prime role of a left tackle. Its great that he can open holes for running plays, but it doesn't excuse how pathetic he is in pass coverage now.

There was only ONE play that that Light almost got Brady killed as you say. The other was CLEARLY Mankins fault for not sliding over. The other play where Brady got hit and almost killed was from the right side. It was Odom beating O'Callaghan. As I said, I taped the broadcast and re-watched it today. You clearly are going by whatever you saw last night and haven't looked at the plays a few times.

As for this garbage you talk about on running plays, sorry Chumly, but your wrong. Light wasn't slow running tackle pulls.

As for pass protection, maybe because I realize that Light wasn't bad at all except for the 1 pass play. Unlike you, I understand the concept behind using a DE's momentum against him and allowing him to run by the QB.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Analyzing the O-lines problems

Ok, Dabruinz. If you have reviewed the game film and feel confident
in your post, I won't debate you. I didn't even see the game
I had to rely on the chat board pbp. Great job btw.
Doesn't Watson help out over there. I heard he was having issues.

I won't call it game film. It was the rebroadcast on NFLN. And they skipped 5 plays.

As for Watson, he left 1 on 1 with Odom and was just blown up when he didn't get help from O'callaghan.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Re: Analyzing the O-lines problems

It was both Light and Mankins fault. Light is supposed to see the end stunting and aggresively move over to engage the tackle, signaling Mankins to bump over and take the looping end. Picking up the "twist" as it is called is a constant to offensive line play from high school on up - everybody does it the same way. Its a pretty simple technique, but not necessarily easy to execute.

ya pretty much what I said. agreed

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Re: Analyzing the O-lines problems

It was both Light and Mankins fault. Light is supposed to see the end stunting and aggresively move over to engage the tackle, signaling Mankins to bump over and take the looping end. Picking up the "twist" as it is called is a constant to offensive line play from high school on up - everybody does it the same way. Its a pretty simple technique, but not necessarily easy to execute.

That's what it looked like the first time I watched, but I slowed it down on my DVR and saw what seems to be a well executed block by the LDT.
- Excerpted from pats1's breakdown with my response from the breakdown thread:

3rd and 6 NE 38

Result: Pass, Stallworth, 20 yard sideline comeback pattern, pass overthrown under pressure and INTERCEPTED at Ten 49 by Ten – Finnegan, 51 yd. return, TOUCHDOWN.
Analysis: Shotgun 3 WR, 2 left (Stallworth, Welker), 1 right (Gaffney), TE right wing (Watson), RB Faulk left vs. 4-2 nickel, NB press. The first stunt of the night from the Titans results in trouble for the Pats’ OL. The RE Vanden Bosch stunts right around the double team of Light and Mankins on the RDT, nailing Brady right after the throw. Stallworth, after the game, said that he slipped on the interception and it was his fault. Well, he’s right about that. It’s tough to see on the replay, but you can tell that Stallworth slipped in his cut on the route. If he hadn’t he would have had a good chance of jumping up and snagging this one before the RCB did. OL: Light, Mankins, Koppen, Neal, Kaczur.

Look closely at the LDT as he engages Mankins: his right hand grabs Mankins left shoulder and the DT's body starts to twist, his left side is turning inward like he's trying to twist something heavy - say a 310 lb. offensive guard? I wouldn't be surprised if he had a hold of Mankins' jersey/shoulder pads screened away from the Umpire by his body, Mankins was certainly slow enough coming off the block to consider defensive holding a factor. Both sides are allowed to use their hands and grab "some" jersey, so I can't say it's a penalty, but it was a well executed block by the DT.

 

[PromisedLand]

Im not sure of the answer myself but why would need a zone blocking scheme for passing plays? It doesnt make sense for OL players to get to the second tier of players if Brady needs to throw it.

Im not sure, just giving my best logical guess.

But i assume your correct its only running game.

That has been my assumption too - zone blocking is for run blocking only. I'm not sure how it would even work for pass blocking. But I too would love to be educated if someone here really knows what they are talking about.

 

[italia44]

Don't forget two things:

1.Fischer is a great coach and his defense's
have terrific design.

2.VanDen Bosche is a stud....way underrated.....right up there with Aaron Schobel,IMO.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

That has been my assumption too - zone blocking is for run blocking only. I'm not sure how it would even work for pass blocking. But I too would love to be educated if someone here really knows what they are talking about.

Okay, a partial answer may be found in AllWorldTE's response to MEPATSNUT (a cheap and tawdry imitation of our own cheap and tawdry PATSNUTMe) near the end of this thread: http://www.patriotsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23483

 

[PatsSteve1]

Re: Analyzing the O-lines problems

I won't call it game film. It was the rebroadcast on NFLN. And they skipped 5 plays.

Was the Ghost's missed FG one of those plays? I thought maybe I blacked out or something.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Re: Analyzing the O-lines problems

Was the Ghost's missed FG one of those plays? I thought maybe I blacked out or something.

The skunks skipped almost two minutes, not just five plays, and yes the missed FG was in that segment - I'm hoping someone works a deal and does another rebroadcast using the Tennessee feed for the first half and that fouled up Boston feed for the second to get the entire game on air.

 

[SVN]

our o-line has problems every year. Just check after thanksgiving and into the post season they transform themselves into almost unbeatable.