Should we keep eight defensive linemen?

[mgteich]

We certainly have kept eight in the past, athough recently we have kept seven. The issue is that our linemen do indeed kept banged up on a regular basis. Barring injury, five should get almost all the reps.

THE BASE FIVE
Seymour, Wilfork, Warren,
Green, Wright

BACKUP AND DEVELOPMENTAL PLAYERS USUALLY INACTIVE
2-3 of
LeKevin Smith, Kenny Smith, Brown, Moore, West

 

[patpatriot]

I think that we will start the season with 7 and Seymour on PUP. When he comes off PUP there will be a decision to be made. I think the front runners for the final 2 spots are LeKevin Smith who has shown he can backup at nose and End and Brown who has the potential to do both. When Seymour comes back, they may try to slide Brown onto the PS. Kenny Smith and Moore might be shadow roster candidates at least until inuries around the league open up a spot for them.

On a related topic, Am I the only one concerned that Seymour is not going to be ready to play against the Jets? He's running out of time to get ready.

 

[TeamPats]

I think that we will start the season with 7 and Seymour on PUP. When he comes off PUP there will be a decision to be made. I think the front runners for the final 2 spots are LeKevin Smith who has shown he can backup at nose and End and Brown who has the potential to do both. When Seymour comes back, they may try to slide Brown onto the PS. Kenny Smith and Moore might be shadow roster candidates at least until inuries around the league open up a spot for them.

On a related topic, Am I the only one concerned that Seymour is not going to be ready to play against the Jets? He's running out of time to get ready.

Whoa, there is an enormous difference between being ready to play against the Jets and being on the PUP. PUP is what? week 7. Unless Seymour is suffering from something severe there is no way we risk not having him for close to half the season. We could always just not activate him until week 4, he is way too important.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I think that we will start the season with 7 and Seymour on PUP. When he comes off PUP there will be a decision to be made. I think the front runners for the final 2 spots are LeKevin Smith who has shown he can backup at nose and End and Brown who has the potential to do both. When Seymour comes back, they may try to slide Brown onto the PS. Kenny Smith and Moore might be shadow roster candidates at least until inuries around the league open up a spot for them.

On a related topic, Am I the only one concerned that Seymour is not going to be ready to play against the Jets? He's running out of time to get ready.

Regular season PUP != preseason PUP.

A player who starts the season on PUP can't come off PUP before week 7 (maybe 6), so saying Seymour will start the season on PUP means he will miss the first six games.

 

[mgteich]

I expect Seymour to be kept out of preseason games. I do not expect him to be on the PUP list. I actually expect him to be active for the opening game (maybe starting, maybe not). It is not at all unusual to greatly limit the reps of vets in the preseason. Do you really think that Seymour, Wilfork and Warren need extra practice together?

My gut feel is that
1) LeKevin and Moore are competing for a NT roster spot. IMHO, if they are equal Moore makes the roster, and LeKevin is sent to the Practice Squad.
2) Brown is a developmental roster player and will be inactive for at least half a season (which is fine). There is no reason to send a 4th rounder to the Practice Squad.
3) Kenny Smith is a bubble player competing with other STer for one of the final roster spots. In the end, he may be more valuable than a 7th safety, or a developmental linebacker who could easily be on the Practice Squad.

 

[patriot lifer]

We certainly have kept eight in the past, athough recently we have kept seven. The issue is that our linemen do indeed kept banged up on a regular basis. Barring injury, five should get almost all the reps.

THE BASE FIVE
Seymour, Wilfork, Warren,
Green, Wright

BACKUP AND DEVELOPMENTAL PLAYERS USUALLY INACTIVE
2-3 of
LeKevin Smith, Kenny Smith, Brown, Moore, West

I have that feeling with the DL too. However, I (as well as most) have that feeling with the safeties, cornerbacks, wide receivers, and tight ends. The 53 becomes something like 56 or 57 if we keep adding the roster spots. In the end, we'll just be biting our lip and cutting a few decent backups. I think we'll get by with seven to start the year. Hopefully the defense gets less playing time anyways.

 

[patsox23]

Seymour is being held out of pre-season for purely precautionary reasons, following knee surgery. He will almost certainly be activated off of PUP before the last pre-season game, and will DEFINITELY be ready for the season. This is not, aside from this thread, in dispute ANYWHERE, as far as I know.

 

[patsgo]

I think that we will start the season with 7 and Seymour on PUP. When he comes off PUP there will be a decision to be made. I think the front runners for the final 2 spots are LeKevin Smith who has shown he can backup at nose and End and Brown who has the potential to do both. When Seymour comes back, they may try to slide Brown onto the PS. Kenny Smith and Moore might be shadow roster candidates at least until inuries around the league open up a spot for them.

On a related topic, Am I the only one concerned that Seymour is not going to be ready to play against the Jets? He's running out of time to get ready.

there is no way seymour doesnt start against the jets

 

[patpatriot]

I expect Seymour to be kept out of preseason games. I do not expect him to be on the PUP list. I actually expect him to be active for the opening game (maybe starting, maybe not). It is not at all unusual to greatly limit the reps of vets in the preseason. Do you really think that Seymour, Wilfork and Warren need extra practice together?.

Gotcha on the Pre/Reg PUP thing but I haven't seen any sign of Seymour even at the walkthru's that PUP guys can participate in. How can he go from having *no* training camp to competetive play? Can he even pass the conditioning run at this point?

My gut feel is that...

3) Kenny Smith is a bubble player competing with other STer for one of the final roster spots. In the end, he may be more valuable than a 7th safety, or a developmental linebacker who could easily be on the Practice Squad.

Can kenny Smith cover punts or kickoffs? a developmental linebacker can.

 

[mgteich]

Yes, he can.

Gotcha on the Pre/Reg PUP thing but I haven't seen any sign of Seymour even at the walkthru's that PUP guys can participate in. How can he go from having *no* training camp to competetive play? Can he even pass the conditioning run at this point?



Can kenny Smith cover punts or kickoffs? a developmental linebacker can.

 

[Rob0729]

I doubt they will keep 8 d-linemen. That is almost 3 players deep at each spot. I just can't see that happening.

As for Seymour, Profootball Weekly stated that their sources is the Seymour is on the PUP for precautionary reasons and if he was anyone other than Seymour, he may already be back on the field. I really doubt he will start the season on the PUP. I actually expect him to be back in uniform as soon as this upcoming Monday.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Seymour, Wilfork, Warren;
Green, Wright;

Kareem Brown is a concern, one recent camp report had him catching heck from the coaches followed by a one-on-one talk with Adalius Thomas. Add that to the start of camp suspension and you wonder if the maturity level is quite there yet. His athleticism is awsome, the series I broke down with him in Ty's slot showed a kid with a lot to learn for a Two-Gap defense.

LeKevin Smith looked good for this point in his development, he's still pushing too hard, but so was Vince at this same stage. LeKevin reminded me of Vince, I see him staying.

Rashas Moore is getting lots of love in the press, but the very short time I watched in "real-time" he did not impress me. I do need to watch him closer.

Kenny Smith and Zach West I need to watch more.

Santonio Thomas looked just as solid as he did last season when I thought he should have made the team over Marquis Hill or LeKevin Smith. That doesn't bode well for him.

The trouble with trying to keep 8 DL, I can see trying to keep "extra" players at each position. I think BB's base 7 man DL is the most likely, after one preseason game, I would probably go with Smith and Smith; Brown to the Practice Squad, maybe Thomas too as a 3rd year man.

 

[mgteich]

You may be right about Brown. That would be major failure on the part of patriot scouts and combine evaluators. That's Ok. It's certainly fine to keep LeKevin as a NT if he is continuing to develop. And Kenny should be a reasonable backup DE and Ster. I'm not ready to give on Brown yet. But in the end, the issue will be which of say three developmental players can be kept on the Practice Squad and which need to be inactive roster players. Getting ready for a game, it makes no difference where the player was last week. He still attends all practices.

Seymour, Wilfork, Warren;
Green, Wright;

Kareem Brown is a concern, one recent camp report had him catching heck from the coaches followed by a one-on-one talk with Adalius Thomas. Add that to the start of camp suspension and you wonder if the maturity level is quite there yet. His athleticism is awsome, the series I broke down with him in Ty's slot showed a kid with a lot to learn for a Two-Gap defense.

LeKevin Smith looked good for this point in his development, he's still pushing too hard, but so was Vince at this same stage. LeKevin reminded me of Vince, I see him staying.

Rashas Moore is getting lots of love in the press, but the very short time I watched in "real-time" he did not impress me. I do need to watch him closer.

Kenny Smith and Zach West I need to watch more.

Santonio Thomas looked just as solid as he did last season when I thought he should have made the team over Marquis Hill or LeKevin Smith. That doesn't bode well for him.

The trouble with trying to keep 8 DL, I can see trying to keep "extra" players at each position. I think BB's base 7 man DL is the most likely, after one preseason game, I would probably go with Smith and Smith; Brown to the Practice Squad, maybe Thomas too as a 3rd year man.

 

[Pats726]

I expect Seymour to be kept out of preseason games. I do not expect him to be on the PUP list. I actually expect him to be active for the opening game (maybe starting, maybe not). It is not at all unusual to greatly limit the reps of vets in the preseason. Do you really think that Seymour, Wilfork and Warren need extra practice together?

My gut feel is that
1) LeKevin and Moore are competing for a NT roster spot. IMHO, if they are equal Moore makes the roster, and LeKevin is sent to the Practice Squad.
2) Brown is a developmental roster player and will be inactive for at least half a season (which is fine). There is no reason to send a 4th rounder to the Practice Squad.
3) Kenny Smith is a bubble player competing with other STer for one of the final roster spots. In the end, he may be more valuable than a 7th safety, or a developmental linebacker who could easily be on the Practice Squad.

Seymour, Warren, Wilfork, Green and Wright are the 5...of course. No way Seymour is PUPed till 6th week you are so correct precautionary non-use in preseason. I agree that most likely Moore will be the back up NT, unless Smith shows something strong and he may not...but I am not sure that means PSqd...it all might depend on the whole mix of players. Unless there are severe injuries up front they will keep 7 not 8.

 

[JackBauer]

You may be right about Brown. That would be major failure on the part of patriot scouts and combine evaluators. That's Ok. It's certainly fine to keep LeKevin as a NT if he is continuing to develop. And Kenny should be a reasonable backup DE and Ster. I'm not ready to give on Brown yet. But in the end, the issue will be which of say three developmental players can be kept on the Practice Squad and which need to be inactive roster players. Getting ready for a game, it makes no difference where the player was last week. He still attends all practices.

Kareem Brown is someone, I think, that they expect to be a longer-term project. Like Wilfork, I assume it'll take him at least a year or two to really grasp the system.

Like BOR said, though, his athleticism is awesome. Maybe too good to pass up.

 

[mgteich]

I agree that Brown is a project. We didn't try to put Wilfork on the Practice Squad!

Kareem Brown is someone, I think, that they expect to be a longer-term project. Like Wilfork, I assume it'll take him at least a year or two to really grasp the system.

Like BOR said, though, his athleticism is awesome. Maybe too good to pass up.

 

[moosekill]

The Patriots have a great team, very deep in a number of positions. Any rookie coming in is going to have a very difficult time making the team, there just aren't that many openings. That being said, you can see why

A. The Patriots traded that second first rounder for one in 2008.

B. The Patriots took a shot at a "project" like Kareem Brown. If he puts his tools together he might be something special, they can probably put him on the practice squad if they see something, or they can simply cut him. Chance are pretty good that whomever they picked in his spot would have a very difficult time making the team, so why not take a risk and swing for the fences.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I agree that Brown is a project. We didn't try to put Wilfork on the Practice Squad!

We also didn't take him in the 4th round, nor were there any questions about his maturity heading into the second preseason game. Hill and L.Smith were inactive most of last season, so there may be room for 2 developmental players on the roster; I just wonder if (I say "if") there were a maturity concern, would you worry more about protecting the unrealized potential, or would a little shock treatment (and wallet hit) be a better approach? Bottom line, NT depth isn't looking too bad, Santonio Thomas isn't a bad 5th wheel at DE - and from the practice reports Kenny Smith is ahead of Thomas and Brown, so whoever sits the bench is "future" project.

 

[mgteich]

Please again explain why we didn't draft a linebacker or running back or even a corner with the 2007 pick and chose to move the pick into 2008? A second round rookie would have no problem coming in and contributing at those positions.

The Patriots have a great team, very deep in a number of positions. Any rookie coming in is going to have a very difficult time making the team, there just aren't that many openings. That being said, you can see why

A. The Patriots traded that second first rounder for one in 2008.

B. The Patriots took a shot at a "project" like Kareem Brown. If he puts his tools together he might be something special, they can probably put him on the practice squad if they see something, or they can simply cut him. Chance are pretty good that whomever they picked in his spot would have a very difficult time making the team, so why not take a risk and swing for the fences.