The New Celtics Lineup

[JoeSixPat]

Thought it might be worthwile to have another thread to talk about Celtics personnell and potential lineups

Bob Ryan was pretty brutal on the rest of the Celts beyond the new big three

I understand some of the concern - but I think Rondo is a bigtime keeper - a decent player with a very suspect cast of characters last year, that should be helped immensely by having such great players around him now.

Additionally I think the fact that Allen, Garnett and Pierce are all good passers shouldn't be overlooked.

Perkins, Powe and Davis might get some time too obviously - but I wouldn't be surprised to see one more trade for a veteran.

But just wondering what people see as the starting roster and key backups now - and who they might like to see brought in via trade if need be... and if they think Rondo can handle point guard.

 

[BradyManny]

Thought it might be worthwile to have another thread to talk about Celtics personnell and potential lineups

Bob Ryan was pretty brutal on the rest of the Celts beyond the new big three

I understand some of the concern - but I think Rondo is a bigtime keeper - a decent player with a very suspect cast of characters last year, that should be helped immensely by having such great players around him now.

Additionally I think the fact that Allen, Garnett and Pierce are all good passers shouldn't be overlooked.

Perkins, Powe and Davis might get some time too obviously - but I wouldn't be surprised to see one more trade for a veteran.

But just wondering what people see as the starting roster and key backups now - and who they might like to see brought in via trade if need be... and if they think Rondo can handle point guard.

Bob Ryan really needs to look up the rosters of the Suns and Spurs (who he cites as having deep benches), and see how concentrated their minutes/points are. To be quite honest, I don't think Bob Ryan has any idea what he's talking about these days and couldn't name you the benches on those rosters. If he could, he wouldn't have written that article.

Bulpett on the other hand detailed the players in our rotation and why they'll all get better as a result of playing with this trio.

I think all they have to do is add two vets - I think Brevin Knight and Mutombo would be ideal and the Herald listed them as realistic targets recently.

I still think Rondo is your starting PG, his basketball IQ is off the charts, youngster or not, he understands the game better than a lot of veteran PGs.

Perk is going to be perfectly fine at the center position if he stays healthy. As Bulpett says in his article, Jefferson's inadequacy on defense led to a lot of fouls on Perk (when Perk did get minutes last season), as Perk was always having to pick up Big Al's man. With KG replacing Jefferson, Perk will not have the same foul trouble he has run into.

So, lineup...

PG - Rondo
SG - Allen
SF - Pierce
PF - KG
C - Perk

6th: Tony Allen
7th: B. Knight/VET
8th: Mutombo/VET
9th: House

10th: Scal
11th: Powe
12th: Davis

Pruitt, Wallace go to the NBADL for now.

If you do look at the Suns and Spurs rotations and see their minutes played, you basically see a strong 6 man rotation with a couple of other fringe guys getting 10-16 minutes a game. I think Tony Allen is going to play a lot of minutes, probably 25-30 a game, spelling Pierce, Allen and also coming into the first unit as a defensive stopper.

Knight or whatever other backup will likewise get minutes in the 15 range, and House will, too, as a shooter though, I don't really see him as a PG option. You get a vet center like Mutombo to chip in 15 minutes a game, and other than that, I really don't see too many minutes spreading around.

They'll also go small a lot and play KG at 5, something to keep in mind. You make a great point about the passing ability of the trio...that takes pressure off the ability to have a true PG out there at times. So maybe you do see House at 1, but the offense runs through Pierce or Ray Allen in that instance.

There's a lot of different units I can imagine with this team, especially with Doc's desire to go small at times. I'll post some later, but there is some creative units they can really put out there, to keep guys fresh, to maximize a certain strength (ie defense, or shooting, or fast break offense). They have the ability to find out what a team's weakness is on both sides of the court and create a unit that attacks those weaknesses.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Thanks - very helpful stuff as I get back on the Celtics bandwagon.

I wasn't taking too much of what Ryan was saying too seriously - unless he hasn't noticed the entire NBA has been watered down for quite sometime. That's not changing right away, but whereas we only had 1 all star last season (and he was injured) now we have 3.

I guess it remains to be seen if Tony Allen is healthy enough to take that many minutes but let's hope so.

The fact is, there will be more moves this season, and even if they don't raise another banner at the beginning of next season, these three will be together for a few more years.

Unlike the immediate past, quality veterans will LOVE to play for this team - and that counts for a lot when you're filling out the bench with roleplayers.

 

[rbkgoalr]

I dont see Ryan Gomes making the T-Wolves roster, he will resign with us and will make us even better.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

I dont see Ryan Gomes making the T-Wolves roster, he will resign with us and will make us even better.

Wouldn't he have to clear waivers first?? I'm not too familiar with the NBA CBA but if it's worst first, there should only be one team ahead of the Celts. Thatbeing said, I think he makes the Wolves roster....

 

[BradyManny]

I guess it remains to be seen if Tony Allen is healthy enough to take that many minutes but let's hope so.

I think Tony Allen is sort of the X-Factor on this team. He can stay with just about anybody, defensively. His speed makes him a force on fast breaks. And his one real weak spot, ball handling and an overzealous desire to drive, will be offset by the fact that he will not be asked to handle the ball very often.

If Tony Allen comes back to play at the level he was at before his injury, I see us using this unit quite a bit....

1 - Rondo
2 - R. Allen
3 - T. Allen
4 - Pierce
5 - KG

What the group lacks in size, it makes up with speed and athleticism with Rondo, T Allen and KG. The speed of these three guys allow them to rotate and make up for mismatches that their lack of size creates (ie. Pierce at 4). In turn, the speed and rotations create turnovers, which leads to points on the other end with 5 players who can all work the break.

In the half court offense, expect KG to draw the other team's 5 away from the basket, leaving the lane open for anyone else to drive and score or force the D to collapse, and getting it to a shooter.

 

[BradyManny]

FYI Brevin Knight has bene signed by the Clippers.

I'm guessing at this point that Rondo-House-Pruitt will be the options at PG.

 

[Real World]

I dont see Ryan Gomes making the T-Wolves roster, he will resign with us and will make us even better.

He's a 2nd year, $500k a year player, who averaged 12 points and 6 rebounds a game last year. There is no way he doesn't make that team. If he doesn't, the only reason would be cuz Ainge, Wallace (Memphis GM), and McHale have a prearranged deal in place where Minny would release him, Wallace wouldn't claim him, thus allowing Ainge and the C's to get him back. Some conspiracy people over at CelticsBlog.com have mentioned this as a possibility, since Minny has 18 roster players (maybe 17 minus Hudson), and the deal for KG was $50k short of the 125% salary limit minus Gomes' contract. I doubt that's the case, but who knows.

 

[Real World]

FYI Brevin Knight has bene signed by the Clippers.

I'm guessing at this point that Rondo-House-Pruitt will be the options at PG.

Some have mentioned Tyrone Lue.

 

[BradyManny]

Some have mentioned Tyrone Lue.

I've always been a huge Iverson fan (I know, blasphemy since he was a Sixer, but I've been watching him since college), so I'll always remember Lue in reference to Iverson absolutely making him his bytch in OT of Game 1 during the finals against the Lakers, specifically when he buried the step back and then stepped right over Lue...

But aside from that, from what I've seen of him, Lue is that kind of quick, scrappy defender that gets really annoying for opposing players. He's also a solid ball handler and shooter. So I would certainly welcome him on the C's roster.

 

[BradyManny]

FYI....here's an article saying Lue and KG are tight (and that Lue helped convince KG to accept a trade to Boston), so it might be a good fit from that standpoint.

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/08/06/tyronn-lue-helped-send-garnett-to-boston/

 

[Real World]

I've always been a huge Iverson fan (I know, blasphemy since he was a Sixer, but I've been watching him since college), so I'll always remember Lue in reference to Iverson absolutely making him his bytch in OT of Game 1 during the finals against the Lakers, specifically when he buried the step back and then stepped right over Lue...

But aside from that, from what I've seen of him, Lue is that kind of quick, scrappy defender that gets really annoying for opposing players. He's also a solid ball handler and shooter. So I would certainly welcome him on the C's roster.

I don't mind Lue cuz he's a vet, plays D, and can have a surprising game here and there. He'd be a good back up to Rondo. Personally though, I'd prefer Troy Hudson. He's had some injuries over the years, but he was terrific for the Wolves the year they lost to the Lakers. He can shoot, play D, and run an offense. Plus, he's very familiar with KG, and was a relied upon playoff PG. He's more talented than Lue, who I'd really have no problem with. Lue hasn't made the $$ that Hudson has, and Hudson is getting paid via Minny over the next couple of years at $8-9 mill per, so Hudson might take the vet minimum whereas Lue might be looking to stack his retirement egg.

 

[VJCPatriot]

When did the C's sign Mutumbo? As far as I know they signed Scot Pollard.

So, lineup...

PG - Rondo
SG - Allen
SF - Pierce
PF - KG
C - Perk

6th: Tony Allen
7th: B. Knight/VET
8th: Mutombo/VET
9th: House

10th: Scal
11th: Powe
12th: Davis

Pruitt, Wallace go to the NBADL for now.

If you do look at the Suns and Spurs rotations and see their minutes played, you basically see a strong 6 man rotation with a couple of other fringe guys getting 10-16 minutes a game. I think Tony Allen is going to play a lot of minutes, probably 25-30 a game, spelling Pierce, Allen and also coming into the first unit as a defensive stopper.

Knight or whatever other backup will likewise get minutes in the 15 range, and House will, too, as a shooter though, I don't really see him as a PG option. You get a vet center like Mutombo to chip in 15 minutes a game, and other than that, I really don't see too many minutes spreading around.

They'll also go small a lot and play KG at 5, something to keep in mind. You make a great point about the passing ability of the trio...that takes pressure off the ability to have a true PG out there at times. So maybe you do see House at 1, but the offense runs through Pierce or Ray Allen in that instance.

There's a lot of different units I can imagine with this team, especially with Doc's desire to go small at times. I'll post some later, but there is some creative units they can really put out there, to keep guys fresh, to maximize a certain strength (ie defense, or shooting, or fast break offense). They have the ability to find out what a team's weakness is on both sides of the court and create a unit that attacks those weaknesses.

 

[BradyManny]

When did the C's sign Mutumbo? As far as I know they signed Scot Pollard.

They didn't, that was pure speculation/conjecture. They made him an offer (as did a few other teams), but I haven't heard anything about it since - and that was at least a couple weeks ago. It's possible he's been signed by another team and I missed it.

 

[Boston Boxer]

they just signed James Posey...that should be the final guy i would say.

 

[BradyManny]

they just signed James Posey...that should be the final guy i would say.

Yup, and I think it's a great signing. It actually exceeds what I would've thought they could get.

It'll be great to have Posey and Tony Allen on this team. It'll give us the option to shut down the best 2 or 3 on the other team every game, and when you have KG down low, that adds up to a pretty effective defense.

The defensive versatility of these guys, Posey, Allen, KG, is really going to allow Doc to do some creative lineups.

 

[patsfan55]

Yup, and I think it's a great signing. It actually exceeds what I would've thought they could get.

It'll be great to have Posey and Tony Allen on this team. It'll give us the option to shut down the best 2 or 3 on the other team every game, and when you have KG down low, that adds up to a pretty effective defense.

The defensive versatility of these guys, Posey, Allen, KG, is really going to allow Doc to do some creative lineups.

def agree
i would not be surprised to see posey start at the 3 some nights with paul at the 2 and have ray allen play the ginobli role

 

[Real World]

they just signed James Posey...that should be the final guy i would say.

Nah, they still need a veteran PG and a servicable 5. Some guys like a Troy Hudson/Anthony Johnson PG, and a PJ Brown type 4/5.

 

[BradyManny]

def agree
i would not be surprised to see posey start at the 3 some nights with paul at the 2 and have ray allen play the ginobli role

I agree, I think Posey is going to get a lot of minutes. I previously thought Tony Allen would get many of those minutes, and I still think he will, but Posey will get even more. He's going to be a huge asset. We know Doc likes to go small, so one lineup I wouldn't be surprised to see in very specific situations: this small, PG-less lineup - R. Allen, T. Allen, P. Pierce, J. Posey, KG.

 

[BradyManny]

Nah, they still need a veteran PG

That's true, if Rondo goes down, we'd be pretty screwed.

But I do think the Posey signing means we'll probably go without a 1 at times. If you have Posey and T. Allen in there at the same time, you create a strength on defense, and your need for a true point on the offensive end of the court is lessened by the fact that your offense can primarily run through KG or PP.

Again, that doesn't change the need for a backup to Rondo in the case of injury.