Kirwan on Pats

[spacecrime]

We know (assume) Bill is in the last year of his contract.

Why on earth would you assume he is in the last year? What would make you think that?

 

[PatsFan37]

You guys make sense...I am trying to remember where I read about Brady's contract restructing and how that makes his cap space very hard to absorb next year (forcing a new contract negotiation). I'll find the link and post it.

Till then - you all have been helpful. I dont want any of this to be possible.

BTW I am a she, (a high school teacher even!) not a he - so go easy on me. I am still figuring it all out. Which is why I love this board!

Welcome aboard and sorry about any rude comments. Talk of Brady's or Belichick's contracts incites the urge to pile on. I hear what you're saying about Brady's contract, but truthfully, that kind of talk is created by the media in their urge to fill the vacuum this time of year.

As for the meds, they're not gender specific. A shot glass of kool-aid whenever the media folks give you the jitters.

 

[T-ShirtDynasty]

As for the meds, they're not gender specific. A shot glass of kool-aid whenever the media folks give you the jitters.

Now that we have a guy on the team that goes by that nickname, the reference is becoming, um, disturbing.

 

[PatsFan37]

Now that we have a guy on the team that goes by that nickname, the reference is becoming, um, disturbing.

I could have done without that image, thanks. :bricks:

 

[DaBruinz]

You guys make sense...I am trying to remember where I read about Brady's contract restructing and how that makes his cap space very hard to absorb next year (forcing a new contract negotiation). I'll find the link and post it.

Till then - you all have been helpful. I dont want any of this to be possible.

BTW I am a she, (a high school teacher even!) not a he - so go easy on me. I am still figuring it all out. Which is why I love this board!

Editing to add - I found the article that caused the concern...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2859992

Here's the quote:


"Because while the restructuring for this year reduced Brady's 2007 salary-cap charge to $7.346 million, roughly $4 million less than before the deal was redone Sunday morning, it inflated the cap hit for each of the subsequent seasons through 2010. All of the maneuvering with the new six-year, $60 million contract that Brady signed in May of 2005 -- the initial $14.5 million signing bonus, a $12 million option bonus in March 2006 that was converted into a second signing bonus, and Sunday's machinations -- means the quarterback is carrying prohibitive cap charges over the final three seasons of the contract.


Just how prohibitive? Try a cap charge of $14.626 million for 2008.


Without a new deal, Tom Brady's cap number will become a big problem for the Patriots.

Even if the league's spending limit increases to $116 million in 2008, as anticipated, Brady's cap charge, if untouched, would represent a whopping 12.6 percent of the New England budget. By comparison, his cap charge for 2007 is 6.7 percent of a $109 million cap. For owner Bob Kraft, such an excessive amount tied up in one player in 2008 would leave him little recourse.


He would almost certainly have to negotiate a new contract, which could be one of the most lucrative in NFL history, or extend the current deal."

Prior to Brady "restructuring" his contract, he was going to count in the neighborhood of 13 million, give or take. The restructuring lowered this year's current hit. Yes, it raised next years by 1.93 million, but its really not that much. Especially since the last year of Brady's contract (2010) is only scheduled to cound 8.9 million against the cap. Brady could "restructure) his contracts in 2008 and 2009 and be fine. Without a contract extension.

Also, its not like Brady's contract hasn't been a signicant number previously. That article is a know nothing in the name of Lenny "Pasta-belly" Pasquerelli shooting his mouth off about a subject that is way to complex for him.

As a reference, please see this
http://www.patscap.com/capfootnotes.html#brady

Also, in 2005, Brady accounted for 8.5 million against the 82 million cap. That was more than 10% of the cap number. And in 2006, Brady counted for 13.56 million of the 102 million (99 for the Pats). OR 13.69%..

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

You guys make sense...I am trying to remember where I read about Brady's contract restructing and how that makes his cap space very hard to absorb next year (forcing a new contract negotiation). I'll find the link and post it.

Till then - you all have been helpful. I dont want any of this to be possible.

BTW I am a she, (a high school teacher even!) not a he - so go easy on me. I am still figuring it all out. Which is why I love this board!

Editing to add - I found the article that caused the concern...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2859992

Here's the quote:


"Because while the restructuring for this year reduced Brady's 2007 salary-cap charge to $7.346 million, roughly $4 million less than before the deal was redone Sunday morning, it inflated the cap hit for each of the subsequent seasons through 2010. All of the maneuvering with the new six-year, $60 million contract that Brady signed in May of 2005 -- the initial $14.5 million signing bonus, a $12 million option bonus in March 2006 that was converted into a second signing bonus, and Sunday's machinations -- means the quarterback is carrying prohibitive cap charges over the final three seasons of the contract.


Just how prohibitive? Try a cap charge of $14.626 million for 2008.


Without a new deal, Tom Brady's cap number will become a big problem for the Patriots.

Even if the league's spending limit increases to $116 million in 2008, as anticipated, Brady's cap charge, if untouched, would represent a whopping 12.6 percent of the New England budget. By comparison, his cap charge for 2007 is 6.7 percent of a $109 million cap. For owner Bob Kraft, such an excessive amount tied up in one player in 2008 would leave him little recourse.


He would almost certainly have to negotiate a new contract, which could be one of the most lucrative in NFL history, or extend the current deal."

Which brings me to my next point: Don't listen to ESPN!

The notion of Tom Brady on any other team next year is silly, ridiculous, and downright stupid. It doesn't pass the smell test. NE would take a $15M cap hit on him and not blink before they'd imagine letting him go. Sometimes (or all of the time, really) you just need to smile and laugh when someone at ESPN gets stupid.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

From what I could see, ESPN was talking about having to re-do his deal next year, not Brady playing on any other team. What was not mentioned, is that Brady's cap hit was set to be north of 14M this year (or was it 11 this year, 14 next year?) Anyway, a lot; if the former, that pushes about 4M forward over 3 seasons, hardly a make-or-break proposition. If the latter, it's just 2M.

Regardless, either a) this had to be done in the first place, or b) the "prohibitive" 14M+ is actually planned.

I would imagine everybody would love a deal that lets Tom retire a Patriot, and pays him out over the next, say, eight years. Think Trent Green. Methusaleh. My little brother (whom I don't actually have.) Whatever.

Unless Mo Lewis hits him, nicks his aorta, and takes him out for the season, during which time Matt Cassel proves that he should have been starting at USC all along, I don't give a snowball's chance in hell to the idea of Brady moving on anytime soon.

I'm actually pretty sure that it's supposed to happen sometime subsequent to dogs lying down with cats, the moon turning blood red, and the New York Giants winning the super bowl, if you read scripture.

PFnV

 

[PATSNUTme]

I'm not going to pile on nefan123454. All I would do is ask, why?

Why would BB leave the job he was born to do and has total control over an NFL team? If he decides he want to see another side of life, maybe. That would be the only reason that I can think of.

Why would the Patriots even think of letting Tom become a FA? Yes, if we win another championship he is less likely to not bend on his money. But, the guy is a winner and winning is very important to him. So, when push comes to shove he will want to help out if it means getting or keeping another player. He can make money by doing endorsements.

 

[Nefan12345]

the only 'why' I can imagine is that he woud want to win a superbowl with more than one team

 

[PatsFan37]

the only 'why' I can imagine is that he woud want to win a superbowl with more than one team

Think about the way a team sport works and about how Brady (or any team leader) thinks. Players move on because (a) they want more money or (b) they'd like to start but there's a young superstar on the roster ahead of them or (c) (Tom Jackson says) they hate their coach or (d) their team is a perpetual loser.

Tom Brady (a) has enough money to run for president and will get more when the time comes, (b) is the unquestioned franchise leader with total locker room respect, (c) is universally loved by the management, coaches, and fans, and (d) is on a historic winning team.

Let me add (e) players play for their teammates and I'm willing to bet Brady is as close to that team as any group he's known. It's those teammates he won't leave and it's for them he wants to win again. And again. And again.

 

[Pats726]

the only 'why' I can imagine is that he woud want to win a superbowl with more than one team

And...get into a situation that MAY be good?? MAY...but again MAY NOT?? The point is here, he's got it..and I think those are important things..

 

[Miguel]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/10263096

Breaks down the unique mix (old behind the lines, young in the trenches, to be simplistic,) discusses the impact of that mix on special teams. Good read.

Did not see this in the first couple pages of links; if it's been posted before, please merge.

PFnV

I had mentioned this link in another thread.
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=57568&page=5 But it is such a good read that it certainly deserves its own thread. Ever since I read somewhere (I can't remember where and maybe I remember it incorrectly) that one of the BBPioli's goals was to make the team younger I have been following the average age of the team. Example - http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=40692&highlight=younger

 

[Miguel]

BTW I am a she, (a high school teacher even!) not a he - so go easy on me. I am still figuring it all out. Which is why I love this board!

Welcome aboard!!!!

Editing to add - I found the article that caused the concern...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2859992

Here's the quote:


"Because while the restructuring for this year reduced Brady's 2007 salary-cap charge to $7.346 million, roughly $4 million less than before the deal was redone Sunday morning, it inflated the cap hit for each of the subsequent seasons through 2010. All of the maneuvering with the new six-year, $60 million contract that Brady signed in May of 2005 -- the initial $14.5 million signing bonus, a $12 million option bonus in March 2006 that was converted into a second signing bonus, and Sunday's machinations -- means the quarterback is carrying prohibitive cap charges over the final three seasons of the contract.


Just how prohibitive? Try a cap charge of $14.626 million for 2008.


Without a new deal, Tom Brady's cap number will become a big problem for the Patriots.

Even if the league's spending limit increases to $116 million in 2008, as anticipated, Brady's cap charge, if untouched, would represent a whopping 12.6 percent of the New England budget. By comparison, his cap charge for 2007 is 6.7 percent of a $109 million cap. For owner Bob Kraft, such an excessive amount tied up in one player in 2008 would leave him little recourse.

He would almost certainly have to negotiate a new contract, which could be one of the most lucrative in NFL history, or extend the current deal."

As I wrote in the thread about this article

"Bingo, I just do not get how anyone in May, 2007 can opine that the Pats have to extend Brady in April, 2008.

Does Len P provide any facts??
1.) He says that Brady's 2008 cap number would be prohibitive but I do not recall anyone saying that Brady's 2006 cap number was prohibitive. I hate to repeat myself but I have said several times that simply focusing on how much one person takes up of a team's cap is idiotic. It, IMO, is beyond surreal to focus on Brady's since he makes the other players on the team better.
2.) Besides that flimsy rationale, Len P does not explain why the Pats have to extend Brady next year.

He could have reported that the Pats are projected to be over the 2008 cap but did not.

He could have reported that Brady will be demanding more than $8 million in new money but he did not."

 

[cstjohn17]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/10263096

Breaks down the unique mix (old behind the lines, young in the trenches, to be simplistic,) discusses the impact of that mix on special teams. Good read.

Did not see this in the first couple pages of links; if it's been posted before, please merge.

PFnV

I like Kirwan a lot. He does solid research to back up his analysis.Very good read. ST will be very interesting, there is no way around it, the kickoff teams will have many veterans over 30.

The Patriots have always walked the balance between winning now and building for the long-term. They tend to use veterans more than other teams and understand the long-term planning is nice but so is winning games. How many times do we hear that "Team XXX has the best young talent...." or "Watch out for those XXXXX guys in 3-4 years they will be great..."

The NFL is a show me now league, young teams do not win. Looking at this years roster I am very happy that they loaded up without sacrificing the future. Nothing can be sustained forever, the importance of maximizing the Tom Brady Window of Opportunity (WOO) should not be minimized.

Miguel's numbers show an average age of the roster for the past years:
2005 - 27.53
2006 - 26.7
I am willing to bet the number goes up this year but that is ok, I would much rather error on trying to win than becoming the Atlanta Braves of the NFL.


The team is loaded and we have two first round draft picks next year. Go Pats!

18 of 22 starters are signed through 2008.

Starters (Estimated signed through 2007)
Koppen, Dan C
Hobbs, Ellis CB
Seymour, Richard DE
Warren, Ty DE
Mankins, Logan LG
Light, Matt LT
Wilfork, Vince NT
Colvin, Rosevelt OLB
Thomas, Adalius OLB
Brady, Tom QB
Maroney, Laurence RB
Neal, Stephen RG (may need to be upgraded in 08)
Kaczur, Nick RT (may need to be upgraded in 08)
Harrison, Rodney SS (may need to be upgraded in 08)
Thomas TE
Watson, Ben TE
Welker, Wes WR
Merriweather FS

Open starting positions
WR - Stallworth could be extended, or Jackson could take the spot opposite Welker
CB - can anyone say Asante Samuel?
ILB - two open ILB spots
ILB

 

[fair catch fryar]

I'm not going to pile on nefan123454. All I would do is ask, why?

Why would BB leave the job he was born to do and has total control over an NFL team? If he decides he want to see another side of life, maybe. That would be the only reason that I can think of.

Why would the Patriots even think of letting Tom become a FA? Yes, if we win another championship he is less likely to not bend on his money. But, the guy is a winner and winning is very important to him. So, when push comes to shove he will want to help out if it means getting or keeping another player. He can make money by doing endorsements.

I think the similarities of Walsh and Montana to BB and Brady are alike in that they'll both be around as long as the other is. Two surfers riding the same wave 'til comes in to break, then they'll take their boards and go home! (Sorry for teh analogy, I just got back from surfing myself!)

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

BTW I am a she, (a high school teacher even!) not a he - so go easy on me. I am still figuring it all out. Which is why I love this board!

Welcome young lady, my apologies for flunking 9th grade human sex identification through typing style once again! :help: As for gettin' yourself edjumikated here, best of luck (we have a Brit running around who claims he's here to learn, however he only seems to sign up for remedial Hand Placement Under Center). We grade tough here, but there's always someone 24/7 to help confuse you further.

Safety Tip: If someone with a user name of "Broomer" drops by and invites you to a "Roadgrader" party at Patriot's Planet, just tell him you're filling in as Pamela Anderson's stunt double that day and can't make it. :nono:

 

[Nefan12345]

Thanks for the warning and the welcome. (I especially liked being called YOUNG lady since I am turning 40 in 2 months)

BTW - in regards to me doubling for Pam Anderson - how'd you know? LOL LOL

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Thanks for the warning and the welcome. (I especially liked being called YOUNG lady since I am turning 40 in 2 months)

BTW - in regards to me doubling for Pam Anderson - how'd you know? LOL LOL

I feel better, I was right on two counts! Better quit now while I'm on a roll!