Disingenuous BS

[MoLewisrocks]

At the end of the day the worst thing that could have happened from a player relations standpoint between Deion and this team occurred when the mediots in the press box in Jacksonville decided to give Tommy's third Superbowls MVP trophy to Branch. I think they feared what winning a third would do to the Manning vs. Brady debate. So instead of giving it to a guy who knows what to do with them - take 'em home and put 'em on the nightstand, and move on - they gave that one to a kid who hearing his name mentioned in the same breath as Jerry Rice suddenly assumed his ship had come in. The Pat's tried to begin negotiating an extension with him following that game, but just as suddenly he had issues to rehash and a trophy to wave in their faces any time rational comparables were being discussed and phrases like less than a thousand yards came up. I feared what that award woudl do to him, and I was correct - he was good as gone that night.

I think Asante's 12 pick season has had a similar effect on a guy who like Deion already apparently felt he'd been undervalued for some time. After all, he has 2 more Superbowl rings in his jewelry box than either Champ Bailey or Nate Clements or Nathan Vasher... It's almost enough to make a fan wish we had a Ray Lewis on defense who could have easily cut Asante's INT total in half...LOL Almost.

This is the price we pay for winning. Lots of teams and fans pay the same price without winning a thing. It is what it is - which is why it's best for us to just leave it to Belioli to deal with it as they will. I do think in his heart Deion wanted to stay because of the way his QB and his teamates had embraced him - he just wanted his money more. I think Asante, who is somewhat more of a loner, would be happy to stay here. However I've never felt Asante genuinely cares one way or the other as long as he gets paid.

 

[Pats726]

You WIN the Deion Branch Memorial Disingenuous Description AWARD.

You hit all the important points and did it better than I. Thank you.

Thank you......
But I think I left a few things out...like his not attendance at the Pats charity golf tournament and the fact that he told the press he would not hold out that year and....it's all there if people wish to see it.
I KNOW some claimed that there was some other things not publicly known where Deion was snubbed..but if that IS the case that would go against him wishing to be with the team as he said.
It all just does NOT go together. When Seymour held out it was done in a different way and they were able to get an agreement. Deion and his agent kept putting up roadblocks at every step of the way. It's one thing not get "run over"...it's another to set up a wall like he did, forcing the Pats to make a move.
Somehow, I believe in some way he WANTED TO BE a Patriot and really had no idea what effect his actions were going to have on the team. But in reality, his actions..none of them, gave ANY indication he wished to be part of the team..in fact they indicated the opposite. In fact, in every interview after, he seemed confused as to why he was traded; somehow a bit out of touch with his actions.
Interesting how he sees Samuel now..HE got his money..a pile of green..and
let's see if he can play up to the standards of that large amount of cash he got.
I would have been happy to have him stay here, but I think the green was far more imprtant to him than staying a Patriot. And THAt is fine!! Except NOT when one is under contract.

 

[Rob0729]

Branch may fit better, but he's half the player Moss is. I'm still not sold on Moss in NE but let's not pretend to two compare as WRs. If Moss behaves and absorbs the system he can do things Deion Branch can only dream about.

I question if Moss is half the receiver people think he is. For all the excuses made for him the last few years, no one knows if he is anywhere close to the receiver he was in 2003. Yes, it might have been his situation, but it also could be he lost a step.

I still question whether he can run the routes neccessary to be make him fit into the Pats' system. He primarily ran basic routes with no presnap reads. The Pats will require him to conform at least somewhat to the Pats' system because Brady isn't going to turn into Culpepper and become a gunslinger.

 

[Grizzafted]

In the end with Branch it's a judgment call. I'm not going to go against Pioli and his team. I do feel like both sides were slightly unskillful, which I blame mostly on Branch's agent. Probably, if you put both sides into a room and looked at things in retrospect, you'd see that they both would say, "well, I should have done this instead of that," and he'd still be a Patriot. This was a lose-lose trade, even with Moss in red, white, and blue.

Not all guys with rookie contracts are going to have the value of Branch. With him on the team, I think the Patriots could easily have gone 14-2 last year and the AFC game would have been in Foxboro. Asante, despite being at times a game-changer, doesn't have the same value as Deion did. There could have been a bit more give from the Pats FO in their negotiating stance, but its old news, obviously. I'm happy and excited about the team we had.

Key in that article was Branch basically saying, "Asante, you'd be f*ckin' nuts to leave 8 million dollars on the table."

 

[PatsFan37]

At the end of the day the worst thing that could have happened from a player relations standpoint between Deion and this team occurred when the mediots in the press box in Jacksonville decided to give Tommy's third Superbowls MVP trophy to Branch.

Personally, I thought it was Harrison's, he was the superglue holding that secondary together and did pretty well as McNabb's receiver, considering Freddie Mitchell was in tight coverage on him for most of the game. But they don't give the trophy to safeties.

If they did, Harrison would have put it in the same place Brady keeps his.

 

[sieglo]

Personally, I thought it was Harrison's, he was the superglue holding that secondary together and did pretty well as McNabb's receiver, considering Freddie Mitchell was in tight coverage on him for most of the game. But they don't give the trophy to safeties.

100% agree, it should have gone to Harrison. Then Brady. Then Branch.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

He and Stallworth both have essentially one-year contracts.

Moss is a one year contract.

Stallworth is technically signed through 2012. I know what you meant about essentially a 1 year contract - the Patriots would have to pay Stallworth 11+M in 2008. However, the remaining years are much lower and the total contract for six years is $33.1 million. (see: http://www.patscap.com/capfootnotes.html#stallworth ) That is less than 6M per season average which is again, less than Branch wanted.

If you believe the Welker trade would have happened anyway, then the rest of the WR corp would probably be about the same.

That leaves a choice of:

1) Branch signed through 2012 at over 6M per year

or

2) Moss signed for one year at 3M and an extra 2008 1st round draft choice.
and Stallworth signed to either a 1 year 2.773M contract or a 6 year 33.1M contract.

The biggest downside was the impact it had on last season. Other than that, I'd rather have choice #2.

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

In the end with Branch it's a judgment call. I'm not going to go against Pioli and his team. I do feel like both sides were slightly unskillful, which I blame mostly on Branch's agent. Probably, if you put both sides into a room and looked at things in retrospect, you'd see that they both would say, "well, I should have done this instead of that," and he'd still be a Patriot. This was a lose-lose trade, even with Moss in red, white, and blue.

Not all guys with rookie contracts are going to have the value of Branch. With him on the team, I think the Patriots could easily have gone 14-2 last year and the AFC game would have been in Foxboro. Asante, despite being at times a game-changer, doesn't have the same value as Deion did. There could have been a bit more give from the Pats FO in their negotiating stance, but its old news, obviously. I'm happy and excited about the team we had.

Key in that article was Branch basically saying, "Asante, you'd be f*ckin' nuts to leave 8 million dollars on the table."

Why do you blame Branch's agent but not Branch? Agents require the consent of the players they represent and work for what the player wants. They don't hold players hostage in an attempt to make money. Deion signed off on everything, and it could just as easily been his idea.

How was it a lose-lose trade? Deion got a ton of money. Deion definitely won in what transpired. Whether or not it was good for NE is debatable, but I would never call it lose-lose.

So your answer to my question of "do you think NE should have simply torn up the final year of Deion's rookie contract?" is that Branch was a special case due to his value? Hmm, lets look at guys on rookie deals currently on the team who have significant value to the team today, let alone when they only have 1 year left: Warren, Wilfork, Watson, and Maroney are no doubters. I'd probably have to add Mankins to that list, and Hobbs probably believes he belongs. So if all of these guys refuse to play out the last year of their deal NE should talk it over with them and work something out?

 

[arrellbee]

Samuels tatoo says "Get Paid" rather than being some Patriots logo......... Is there a hint there somwhere ?

 

[Pats726]

So your answer to my question of "do you think NE should have simply torn up the final year of Deion's rookie contract?" is that Branch was a special case due to his value?

Well..they did not do this in Brady's case....OR Seymour's...so??? I think this is where the team drew the final line....and Branch would NOT give in an inch to this. I am not really sure that Branch conceded anything at all..

 

[RayClay]

Once again the Herald is acting as player agent in any pay contraversy the Pats or any professional athlete has with his team. What suck ups. Here Meion Branch offers his musings on the the Samuel negotiations.

http://patriots.bostonherald.com/pat...format=&page=1

I just found it so phoney with all his talk about the love of his former teammates and the insinuation that he wasn't treated fairly by the Pats. He never mentions the VERY Generous offer (in fact too generous) the Pats DID make to him, or the fact he never bothered to counter the Pats original offer.

Some how, just because the Pats refused to make Meion the 3rd highest paid WR in the league (at the time), they now can be viewed as under valuing their players.

The same holds true about the Samuel negotiation. No where do they make notice of the VERY fair offer the Pats have already made Samuel. It was slightly larger than the so call "Dre Bly deal", and significantly larger than the Nathan Vasher deal, who has better creds than Samuel.

JUST ONCE I'd like to hear a former player just say the truth. "Yeah the Pats made a nice offer, but the one I got from the Seahawks just blew me away. I wanted out of NE and did what I had to, to make it happen. It worked out well for me, and NE seems to have landed on its feet as well"

Please note this post is less about the pros and cons of the Samuel negotiation and more about the DISINGENOUSNESS (I love that word) of the media in its biased reporting, and Branch who once again proves his actions and words have nothing in common.

They have to do double duty with Borges gone. Ha ha ha!

Plus I doubt I'll read the article, but every time they mention Deion, all I think is thank God we didn't make that long term deal.

Starts dropping balls near the end of the season, shows up late and out of shape to mini-camp and he sure doesn't look like he's worth the first rounder we got for him either.

No 39 million dolar contract? Hey, we dodged a bullet.

Think I'll actually read it now. Sour grapes make some tasty wine!

By the way, that links not working anymore, try this

http://patriots.bostonherald.com/patriots/view.bg?articleid=1008299

 

[RayClay]

Wow, that has to be the most twisted piece of fiction I've read. Borges usual logical backflips pale in comparison.

Our signing proves we made a mistake by letting neion go?

How about it proves that better receivers are available for a dime a dozen?

54 catches? Wow, how can we meet that standard.

As sure as Gaffney and Caldwell are higher rated receivers in the same draft year as branch, Stallworth is much higher rated and Randy Moss is, well, Randy Moss.

Plus Brandon Meriweather comes free, don't forget!

Troy Brown caught 101 and 97 balls here too, don't forget.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha hahaha Neion! How will we replace him? with Adalius Thomas and Brandon Meriweather getting the money we don't have to pay him!

 

[Grizzafted]

Why do you blame Branch's agent but not Branch? Agents require the consent of the players they represent and work for what the player wants. They don't hold players hostage in an attempt to make money. Deion signed off on everything, and it could just as easily been his idea.

While I agree with you that Branch is a grown man and signed off on everything by his own volition, you can't deny that the personal disposition of his agent had an impact on the negotiations. He was getting professional advice from a guy who was saying, "this is bullsh*t, these guys don't respect you at all, listen to me and we'll get you the big bucks you want" -- obviously at least partially influenced by his own percentage of the deal. If his agent had said, "they're being tough about the negotiations, but I think they want you to resign, let's see if we can use a different approach to get some leeway," I think the end result would have been different.

It's like having a lawyer for a criminal case. His or her personality is going to influence your decision-making as it relates to your defense.

Look at it this way, the Pats essentially offered Deion the deal he wanted but told him he'd have to fire his agent. That was a sloppy, emotional move on their part, but it reflects what I think was a lot of irritation about how the guy chose to approach the talks. The Pats FO has humans behind the desks, isn't it fair to say that his attitude influenced the end result?

How was it a lose-lose trade? Deion got a ton of money. Deion definitely won in what transpired. Whether or not it was good for NE is debatable, but I would never call it lose-lose.

I do not see Seattle winning a Super Bowl. Their window is not going to outlast the talent in the AFC, first of all, and second of all they're in an increasingly competitive division with young talent and the NFC pool is getting stronger. I do think it was a net loss for the Pats, even if you just take that as last year's lost opportunity for another title. But I don't anticipate Branch being as successful with Hasselbeck as he was with Brady. He got his paycheck, but he's not going back to the big game.

So your answer to my question of "do you think NE should have simply torn up the final year of Deion's rookie contract?" is that Branch was a special case due to his value? Hmm, lets look at guys on rookie deals currently on the team who have significant value to the team today, let alone when they only have 1 year left: Warren, Wilfork, Watson, and Maroney are no doubters. I'd probably have to add Mankins to that list, and Hobbs probably believes he belongs. So if all of these guys refuse to play out the last year of their deal NE should talk it over with them and work something out?

So, of those guys you named, I personally think only Wilfork and Warren qualify as being close to Deion's level value-wise. Watson has lots of potential but hasn't performed to that level yet, and Maroney has yet to prove that he can carry the load for a 16-game season, stay healthy, and show better instincts at the line of scrimmage.

With Wilfork, you have to give him the money he wants. Period. He's too valuable to the team. More so than Deion, in my opinion. Warren is not on Wilfork's level, and if he sat out the last year of his rookie contract I wouldn't be upset if the Patriots took a hard-line stance for exactly the reasons you give about not setting precedents. But I would hope that they would try to avoid the staring contest they got into with Branch if it happened, though.

The other three, it's hard to say with until we see who gets drafted in the next two years. Deion had proved that he could play well under pressure situations in the playoffs, he had a great rappoire with Brady (not always easy to find), and he was consistently productive above his physical talent.

I know this is an old debate, and those aren't always appreciated around these parts, but my point is that I have yet to be convinced that it was all-around a win situation for the Patriots. I know it wasn't for Deion already, but we'll see over the next few years if it was for the team. We had this great reputation for a while about being the least money-conscious of all the teams, and I think the overall value of locking Deion up would have been higher than the need to avoid setting a bad example. We shall see. Super Bowl XLII here we come.

 

[Captain Cliche]

What I got was a sense of regret towards the end of the article.

Like he went a too far to a place he couldn't retract from.

Someone who claimed to have some inside info during the situation said Branch was stunned it got to the point it did. These agent ***** clowns say they suspended negotiation, but I think the Patriot organization got to a point where they said they have bigger fish to fry and they traded his ass.

He could have fired his agent and got a deal done if he could have shown some maturity and swallowed his foolish pride.

I get the sense, ultimately, most ex-Pats regret moving on to $hittier organizations for a few $ more and Deon is one of them. Mike Vrable said something to that effect.

 

[Pats726]

At the end of the day the worst thing that could have happened from a player relations standpoint between Deion and this team occurred when the mediots in the press box in Jacksonville decided to give Tommy's third Superbowls MVP trophy to Branch. So instead of giving it to a guy who knows what to do with them - take 'em home and put 'em on the nightstand, and move on - they gave that one to a kid who hearing his name mentioned in the same breath as Jerry Rice suddenly assumed his ship had come in. The Pat's tried to begin negotiating an extension with him following that game, but just as suddenly he had issues to rehash and a trophy to wave in their faces any time rational comparables were being discussed and phrases like less than a thousand yards came up. I feared what that award woudl do to him, and I was correct - he was good as gone that night.

I agree that THAT MVP trophy was the worst thing that happened to him....and totally correct in what Brady did after winning two and how Harrison would have handled it if he got the MVP.
A question though comes to mind with the Patriot negotiations with him AFTER that day. I wonder if they realized after that trophy was given that an extension was going to be difficult if near impossible?? I wonder because a month after that trophy was awarded, the Pats made a big offer for Mason. Did they dio that because they knew negotiations with Branch would be hard OR did they think that Mason was a more durable BETTER receiver than Branch?? If it was the latter, do you think that angered Branch more and made him less flexible in his position?? I am curious about how this influenced his thinking. I found it interesting that after they have an MVP WR that they were ready to throw money at another one.

 

[patfanken]

I I wonder because a month after that trophy was awarded, the Pats made a big offer for Mason. Did they dio that because they knew negotiations with Branch would be hard OR did they think that Mason was a more durable BETTER receiver than Branch?? If it was the latter, do you think that angered Branch more and made him less flexible in his position?? I am curious about how this influenced his thinking. I found it interesting that after they have an MVP WR that they were ready to throw money at another one.

That's an interesting point. I had forgotten the Mason romance and assumed that we were just trying to replace David Givens who was "doomed" to be well overpaid by someone....and he was. However you could look at it as a veiled threat to Deion....or perhaps DEION/agent looked at it as a veiled threat.

Bottom line I have always believed that for some reason unknown to us, Deion DID NOT want to play in NE anymore. He instigated the actions that led to the impass. From there I think the Pats fumbled the ball giving him an opportunity to make a deal on his own, then recovered their own fumble in getting a first round pick. But anyway you look at it, Deion was the instigator, and his stubbornness led to what happened.

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

While I agree with you that Branch is a grown man and signed off on everything by his own volition, you can't deny that the personal disposition of his agent had an impact on the negotiations.

I just feel like you're jumping from "the agent has an influence" to "the agent was the driving force." Of course the agent was an influence, but I have no good reason to think that Deion didn't feel the same way. For all you or I know Deion told his agent to take the stance. Even if the agent was responsible for the negotiation issues, Deion hired and retained him so any blame for that falls on Deion.

Look at it this way, the Pats essentially offered Deion the deal he wanted but told him he'd have to fire his agent.

I don't believe that offered included ripping up the final year of his rookie deal, did it? I may have missed that part, but until that gap was bridged there was not going to be a deal. I thought NE's offer was a way for Branch to give in with all forgotten.

I do not see Seattle winning a Super Bowl... He got his paycheck, but he's not going back to the big game.

He wanted the big paycheck and he got the big paycheck, therefore he won. If he valued the chance NE gave him to win he would have eased his money demands, which he did not. It's unfair for you to judge how the situation worked out for him using your values rather than his.

So, of those guys you named, I personally think only Wilfork and Warren qualify as being close to Deion's level value-wise.

The problem is that the only relevant opinion is that of the player. You might not see Watson being as valuable as Deion, but he probably feels he is. If you tear up the final year of Deion's deal Watson probably expects the same treatment. Since he isn't as valuable he doesn't get special treatment and sits out.

I know this is an old debate, and those aren't always appreciated around these parts, but my point is that I have yet to be convinced that it was all-around a win situation for the Patriots. I know it wasn't for Deion already, but we'll see over the next few years if it was for the team. We had this great reputation for a while about being the least money-conscious of all the teams, and I think the overall value of locking Deion up would have been higher than the need to avoid setting a bad example. We shall see. Super Bowl XLII here we come.

Nah, I pushed the debate. I just cannot fathom anyone thinking it would have been a good idea to bend over for Deion's demand of tearing up the final year of his deal. I'm not saying it turned out well, because it didn't. I'm just saying that giving in would have been much worse, as it would encourage other players to do it in the future. NE was in a lose-lose proposition and lost, though they didn't lose as badly as if they had given in the Branch.

 

[Grizzafted]

Fair enough, I see your point(s). I had thought the contract offer included his demand about the final year of his rookie deal, but I'm probably wrong about that.

I also don't necessarily see that what happened with Deion isn't actually the WORST precedent to have set. Here you have a situation where a guy can look at his holdout and say, 'hey, I can get out of this last year and go get a big paycheck elsewhere if I really want it.' If they had taken the tack of re-working his deal the way he had wanted, I don't necessarily see that it changes much about that precedent, except that a guy could think that he would still be with the Pats after doing so since Deion was still around. In that situation, we'd probably lose that player, but then you're probably talking about a guy who has less value to the team (in my opinion) than Deion. The best case scenario, in retrospect, would have been to say, "okay, hold out." He would have had to be back by 10 games in (and realistically would probably have buckled down and played), and then they could potentially have signed him to the deal he wanted this year, depending on his postseason performance.

I'll never deny that he was an a*s about how he went about things, but I would rather have him here than Moss. I definitely hope I get proved wrong, though!

 

[Pats726]

What I got was a sense of regret towards the end of the article. Like he went a too far to a place he couldn't retract from.
Someone who claimed to have some inside info during the situation said Branch was stunned it got to the point it did. These agent ***** clowns say they suspended negotiation, but I think the Patriot organization got to a point where they said they have bigger fish to fry and they traded his ass.

He could have fired his agent and got a deal done if he could have shown some maturity and swallowed his foolish pride.

Firstly I do not think one has to be on the inside to understand that Deion was stunned by how far it got. One of his first interviews post trade (Troy Brown Show) he seemed stunned and surprised by the trade. ALL I have to say is IF that is true..I have to ask what in the blazes did he expect given 1---the lack of any counter offer to the Pats front office and a lack of real negotiations; 2---the demand for the Pats to take the franchise tag away if he showed up to training camp and 3---holding out and not showing up for training camp??? I am surprised that he seems to be clueless and wondering what and why the Pats traded him given his actions. THAT stuns me!! What did he think the Pats were going to do with him?? He doesn't give in at all..do ANYTHING that gets to a win-win situtaion (like Seymour did)..corners them in every way and then wonders why he's out of town. Duh!!!!
No..they traded him because they had run out of options and that every move they made TOWARD a settlement was blocked in some way by him.
I think if they did wish him to get another agent, it was because they felt that Chayat had become an impediment and knew it was not going to happen with him there. Emotional OR what I think was a last chance effort to get him signed?? I think the fact that they did NOT go after a big time receiver was because they wanted to sign him and bent over backwards for him. In the end, it was an endless deadlock and the Twig did not give in at all; did not budge. He won! He mentions about not wishing to get runover but in fact what he did was build a impentrable wall that no one was getting through. To me this is an athlete who FAILS to look at the consequences of his actions..and stances.. and WHO in the end CARED ALL about the money and less about the team. Sure he can go blathering now how he wished to be with the team here, but what action did HE take to help it happen?? What gesture to say to the team's front office...."I want to stay!". NONE of his actions indicated that at all.
I wouldn't have expected that he fire his agent..but making sure his agent made counter offers over a period of months would have helped get to a winning negotiation. That stalemate and lack of counter offers spoke a LOT about how little he cared about the "team". It was all about Deion. I believe he was upset about the 5th year of his contract and that Givens was going to be a free agent and THAT HE wanted HIS money THEN! Immediately!! (And even though he was under contract he wanted it THEN! Even though he had said he would not hold out.) This emotionality and want was certainly the most important part of the driving force behind his actions and his negotiatoing stance. He wanted to win..and in the end..he found himself on a limb wondering how he got there..If he really wished to stay with the team at that point, he could have signed and ended the stalemate but he didn't wish to give in an inch and that I believe forced the team's hand to make other plans.
It was ALL about money with him..he had a contract WITH the team and he failed to honor it. The humble Deion was just a phony mask and he stripped it away to show what he was..greedy and self centered.
I would have had NO PROBLEM with him if he went for the money AFTER that year, but he showed his immaturity, greed and laziness by what he did.

 

[Oswlek]

That's an interesting point. I had forgotten the Mason romance and assumed that we were just trying to replace David Givens who was "doomed" to be well overpaid by someone....and he was. However you could look at it as a veiled threat to Deion....or perhaps DEION/agent looked at it as a veiled threat.

Bottom line I have always believed that for some reason unknown to us, Deion DID NOT want to play in NE anymore. He instigated the actions that led to the impass. From there I think the Pats fumbled the ball giving him an opportunity to make a deal on his own, then recovered their own fumble in getting a first round pick. But anyway you look at it, Deion was the instigator, and his stubbornness led to what happened.

The reason isn't inknown at all. Deion and Chayut were very public about their displeasure with NE adding the 5th year to the deal. As soon as NE's initial offer didn't waive that year he and Chayut dug their heals in.