OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clements $?

[PATRIOT64]

Here goes another disgruntled player who wants as big money as the best in the game.

Larry Johnson is threatening to sit out the season unless he is paid Ladanian Tomlinson money just like Asante Samuel wants Nate Clements type money.

Very similar indeed - Larry is a big part of the chiefs offense and they would be in trouble without him as well as in our situation Asante helps solidify our secondary big time as well.

I think Larry has been paying close attention to what Asante is doing and now we have 2 excellent players near the top at thier respective positions who refuse to play for a more than decent wage.

Is there no end to this?

I think Larry is as important to KC as Asante is to our Patriots - But both are asking a bit too much,wouldn't you say?

 

[PatsSteve1]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

I think Larry has been paying close attention to what Asante is doing and now we have 2 excellent players near the top at thier respective positions who refuse to play for a more than decent wage.

* I don't think Samuel and Johnson are the 1st players to sit out trying to get more money. I don't really see why it even bothers anyone anymore. It's the way it is and as been for years now. And I expect there to be a Patriots player do about the same thing every year.

 

[PATRIOT64]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

I think Larry has been paying close attention to what Asante is doing and now we have 2 excellent players near the top at thier respective positions who refuse to play for a more than decent wage.

* I don't think Samuel and Johnson are the 1st players to sit out trying to get more money. I don't really see why it even bothers anyone anymore. It's the way it is and as been for years now. And I expect there to be a Patriots player do about the same thing every year.

Yeah,I think Warren is next - or will it be Wilfork?

 

[zippo59]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

I don't think Clements derserves Clements' money.

 

[zarakotas5]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

Larry is a big part of the chiefs offense and they would be in trouble without him as well as in our situation Asante helps solidify our secondary big time as well.

Simliar, yes. But also very distinct.

Personally, I think men should be men.

Honor the contract you sign or don't sign it in the first place. (This doesn't as apply to Samuel, per se, but the idea applies.)

 

[upstater1]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

Simliar, yes. But also very distinct.

Personally, I think men should be men.

Honor the contract you sign or don't sign it in the first place. (This doesn't as apply to Samuel, per se, but the idea applies.)

I'd have more sympathy for Larry Johnson. He has a limited window to get paid the money he deserves for running 1700 yards in back to back seasons. And yet he's getting paid at the bottom of the scale for running backs. He only has a window of 3 or 4 more years before he hits that old "RB lost his tread" stage. Asante can make big bank after this year. IMO, the two players are entirely different. Johnson has been in the league longer, he's 27 going on 28, has 3 years left. Asante is 2 years longer, and will probably play at a high level for another 6 years.

If I were Johnson, I'd be very tempted myself to ask for more, especially after Vermeil benched him for the first part of his career.

 

[PATRIOT64]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

I'd have more sympathy for Larry Johnson. He has a limited window to get paid the money he deserves for running 1700 yards in back to back seasons. And yet he's getting paid at the bottom of the scale for running backs. He only has a window of 3 or 4 more years before he hits that old "RB lost his tread" stage. Asante can make big bank after this year. IMO, the two players are entirely different. Johnson has been in the league longer, he's 27 going on 28, has 3 years left. Asante is 2 years longer, and will probably play at a high level for another 6 years.

If I were Johnson, I'd be very tempted myself to ask for more, especially after Vermeil benched him for the first part of his career.

I would trade Maroney for Johnson in a split second - even though theres several years age gap.

Maybe the best Penn State football player ever to join the NFL and that speaks enormous vloumes of his potential possibly even greater years yet to come.

 

[Patsgirl_DK]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

Larry Johnson i scheduled to make 1.7 million in 2007 and definitely deserves more. Asante will make 7.8 millions - huge difference.

I´m not sure how much LJ is asking for but according to this http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/158912.html there have been some reports saying he wants a 8 years 80 - 90 millions deal but his agent denies that is the case.

 

[zarakotas5]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

I'd have more sympathy for Larry Johnson. He has a limited window to get paid the money he deserves for running 1700 yards in back to back seasons. And yet he's getting paid at the bottom of the scale for running backs. He only has a window of 3 or 4 more years before he hits that old "RB lost his tread" stage. Asante can make big bank after this year. IMO, the two players are entirely different. Johnson has been in the league longer, he's 27 going on 28, has 3 years left. Asante is 2 years longer, and will probably play at a high level for another 6 years.

If I were Johnson, I'd be very tempted myself to ask for more, especially after Vermeil benched him for the first part of his career.

You're right, and I do sympathize with his position. I think the trade system needs to be re-worked for cases like this. Not to belittle LJ at all, but KC (like Denver) is also an assembly like for RB dating back to Okoye and further.

He does deserve more, but he signed into a contract, and one that he was once elated to get not too long ago. KC knows this, too. They will be reluctant to give in, as NE with Samuel.

It's a tough situation with the NFL. Can't guarantee contracts for either side. Too risky for the teams, injury-wise; too risky for the (talented) player, gamble-wise. Yet, this billion-dollar industry can't seem to make ~1000 (main)employees content...

 

[zarakotas5]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

What about a guy like Jackson from STL? He had MORE yards than Tomlinson last year, still on his rookie deal.

Does he deserve more than LJ? Is it possible to have purely performance driven salary system? It's a supply and demand economy based on Marxist ideals (my def: capitalism is good for all, but should be spread appropriately while still being even, for the benefit of all. Which was the original idea that tail-spun.)

 

[upstater1]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

Maybe the best Penn State football player ever to join the NFL and that speaks enormous vloumes of his potential possibly even greater years yet to come.

Whoa, Shane Conlan, Jack Ham, Curt Warner, John Cappelletti, Rosey Grier, Bill Lenkaitis (comeon, I had to include him), Matt Millen, Lydell Mitchell, Franco Harris, Lenny Moore, Mike Munchak, Irv Pankey, Tom Rafferty, Dave Szott, Steve Wisniweski.

That's 14 PSU players who are better NFL players than Johnson. He has a chance of beating out Conlan, Cappelletti, Millen, Grier, Pankey and Rafferty for greatness, but Ham, Warner, Mitchell, Moore, Harris, Munchak, Szott, Wisniweski are all out of his league. All but Mitchell are Hall of Famers, IMO.

This is their all-time list.

http://www.gopsusports.com/docs/fb05/AllTimeNFL.pdf

 

[upstater1]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

What about a guy like Jackson from STL? He had MORE yards than Tomlinson last year, still on his rookie deal.

Does he deserve more than LJ? Is it possible to have purely performance driven salary system? It's a supply and demand economy based on Marxist ideals (my def: capitalism is good for all, but should be spread appropriately while still being even, for the benefit of all. Which was the original idea that tail-spun.)

Johnson is older than Jackson too. That's the problem with Johnson. He's not on his rookie deal.

 

[zarakotas5]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

Yeah,I think Warren is next - or will it be Wilfork?

I've never met the man personally, but Wilfork (through a bunch of interviews, etc) just does not give off any inking of a man who would become a "malcontent" unless it is just.

 

[zarakotas5]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

Johnson is older than Jackson too. That's the problem with Johnson. He's not on his rookie deal.

You know, I wondered about that but wasn't sure. To toot my horn, that gives my stance more credence. Nobody expected Holmes to go down so soon. If LJ signed this (second) contract, essentially he was a well-paid and talented back-up (a la the present SD situation w/ Turner). He accepted a good pay-day to be an insurance policy.

As talented as he might become (and has since become), he was an unproven commodity. The list of bust Penn St. RB runs long. While I don't buy into that bunk, a lot of people do, including the pros in NFL personnel.

I think the solution, to avoid these annual debacles, is to either reform the rules (as MLB continues to do) or continue to fight about it endlessly. He took a good "back-up" deal and is now expected to be the supervisor at a layman's wage. That doesn't fly in most places.

But, say LT gets decapitated in game one and Turner had signed a 3 Y, 11 M deal. Turner runs for 1400 yds, catches for 450. He was a borderline elite salaried RB as a back-up (WHEN he signed the contract), but suddenly the cap expands and 5 guys who produced less average 8 M to his ~3.7. If he holds out, does he now deserve to re-work for the 10 M he now WOULD be paid if he was a free-agent again?

 

[dryheat44]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

His situation is nothing like Asante. His situation is like Deion Branch's. Samuel is not under contract, has been offered an extension at about 6 million/year, and can make good money under the franchise tag.

Johnson is under contract (I actually believe it is his rookie deal), KC is not interested in an extension, and doesn't have a tag option.

LJ had over 400 carries last year, I believe he had the most ever in NFL history. I must admit, that if I were LJ, I'd think long and hard about playing for 1.75 million unless I got a good insurance policy and a promise that Edwards would at least try to ease the workload.

Interest in a Free Agent who has 850-900 carries in the previous two seasons is going to be minimal next year, and the Chief's could just tag him anyway.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

Interest in a Free Agent who has 850-900 carries in the previous two seasons is going to be minimal next year, and the Chief's could just tag him anyway.

So what, the basic moral is, don't sign a rookie deal w/KC if you're a running back?

I beg to disagree with this summing-up. Larry Johnson will have a suitor if he's a free agent. The gigantic bucks may not be there, but there will be a suitor... and it won't be a symptom of "wear and tear".

As of last year, the NFL may have reached a tipping point toward a "2 main guys" system of backs. Or more, if you have a 3rd down guy like Faulk is here. So therefore, more positions, less individual heft, but more suitors. I think that's why we have Morris -- he's a backup, sure. But you really think that he doesn't take quite a number of first string snaps by week 18?

Going to the debate about Johnson's rookie deal - he is in the unfortunate position of being him, rather than someone else. He is thrown in a risk pool with every Kijana Carter who's ever been drafted. You sign a low-risk rookie deal. You might end up with a mill or two, and in many cases, it's "have a nice life" after that. The guys that outperform their contract are no different when they sign, from the guys that underperform. Do the teams get to go back to the well, and say "HEY! You were supposed to be BLUE CHIP! GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK"? No. They can do the equivalent of a holdout, by cutting the underperformer.

The holdout is not some kind of sneaky underhanded ploy by a player. It is his exercise of his rights under the terms of the contract. The contract is not slavery or indentured servitude. It is a statement of work conditions for a given athlete within the structure of the National Football League. If you choose not to come to work, the penalties are deducible from the terms of your deal. End of story.

It's not anything more than a business decision, regarding your leverage vis a vis management, taking everything into account, to decide to hold out.

For LJ, the window is narrow indeed, given that he is a running back. But I don't think he'll get his extension this year, and it will be in his own best interests to come to work this year, if he wants to get that big multiyear deal next year. He's still well worth signing on a 5 year deal... If I were him I'd show up to work and prove it's not more trouble than it's worth for his "remaining years."

PFnV

PS - notthejetsnotthejetsnotthejets...

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

I would trade Maroney for Johnson in a split second - even though theres several years age gap.

Maybe the best Penn State football player ever to join the NFL and that speaks enormous vloumes of his potential possibly even greater years yet to come.

Maybe not. I'd still put Jack Ham over Johnson until LJ performs at the same level for a few years or carries his team deep into the playoffs as Ham's team did one year with all those consecurive shutouts...All those rings speak volumes....
While a case can be made that LJ is better than Franco Harris or Lenny Moore, it's still debatable.....
Lastly, I'd still take Maroney until I can see what he can do in his second year when there's a legit passing threat to keep teams from putting everybody in the box......

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

His situation is nothing like Asante. His situation is like Deion Branch's. Samuel is not under contract, has been offered an extension at about 6 million/year, and can make good money under the franchise tag.

Johnson is under contract (I actually believe it is his rookie deal), KC is not interested in an extension, and doesn't have a tag option.

LJ had over 400 carries last year, I believe he had the most ever in NFL history. I must admit, that if I were LJ, I'd think long and hard about playing for 1.75 million unless I got a good insurance policy and a promise that Edwards would at least try to ease the workload.

Interest in a Free Agent who has 850-900 carries in the previous two seasons is going to be minimal next year, and the Chief's could just tag him anyway.

Yup, he's 4 years into a 7 year rookie deal. Isn't that just about the time Richard started squawking here and got about a million or so of new money bumped back into his current season earnings then followed by a new deal? There are tons of precedent for what he's doing and yet as fans we always act shocked when this happens. KC redid Holmes rookie deal at about the same point, and LJ was there to see that. He's younger and healthier than Holmes was when KC redid him.

We redid Brady a year before his rookie deal expired, and then redid him again 2 years before his second deal expired. Based on performance and value it made sense to lock him up. When teams want to redo deals to benefit them long or short term, it's fine. When they player wants his deal redone for the same reasons, he's a jerk. There is no such thing as a guaranteed contract in this league - teams demand salary cuts from players all the time. So it's a little silly of us as fans to get sanctimonious when the shoe is on the other foot.

The way Herm abused him last season LJ would do well to look out for LJ. On a team likely to struggle for the next couple of seasons at least, under a HC who could well ge long gone before things get better, if I'm being asked to carry the load I'm looking to be paid accordingly. 'Cause I also know if I weren't holding up my end, they would demand a paycut or just kick me to the curb more than halfway through an existing contract, as they just happen to have proved with my "franchise" QB this off season.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

Yup, he's 4 years into a 7 year rookie deal. Isn't that just about the time Richard started squawking here and got about a million or so of new money bumped back into his current season earnings then followed by a new deal? There are tons of precedent for what he's doing and yet as fans we always act shocked when this happens. KC redid Holmes rookie deal at about the same point, and LJ was there to see that. He's younger and healthier than Holmes was when KC redid him.

We redid Brady a year before his rookie deal expired, and then redid him again 2 years before his second deal expired. Based on performance and value it made sense to lock him up. When teams want to redo deals to benefit them long or short term, it's fine. When they player wants his deal redone for the same reasons, he's a jerk. There is no such thing as a guaranteed contract in this league - teams demand salary cuts from players all the time. So it's a little silly of us as fans to get sanctimonious when the shoe is on the other foot.

The way Herm abused him last season LJ would do well to look out for LJ. On a team likely to struggle for the next couple of seasons at least, under a HC who could well ge long gone before things get better, if I'm being asked to carry the load I'm looking to be paid accordingly. 'Cause I also know if I weren't holding up my end, they would demand a paycut or just kick me to the curb more than halfway through an existing contract, as they just happen to have proved with my "franchise" QB this off season.

Holy crap. A seven-year rookie deal??? Okay, my whole post stands corrected.

 

[AllabouttheVinces]

Re: OT: Larry Johnson wanting Tomlinson money - Like Asante situation wanting Clement

I don't think Clements derserves Clements' money.

You got that right!

How many Pro Bowls has Asante been to? Oh, yeah...none. Larry Johnson has a much stronger case. He's been to the Pro Bowl, and he's playing a position that doesn't last long in the NFL. Asante has never made big money, and now he is snubbing his nose at an $8M contract. 99% of NFL players would take the 8 mill and keep their mouths shut.