mgteich's June 9 Roster

[mgteich]

Most controversial positions
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1) Washington as the fifth receiver
He is a gunner. ST's is critical when competing for the #5 spot. He is also signed through 2011. Gaffney is OK as a downfield receiver; but we have Stallworth and Moss. I don't expect Brown to be on the 53 at all, certainly not as a receiver.

2) James instead of Samuel
I just don't expect to see Samuel, certainly not for Game One.
Spann or an additional free agent could beat out James.

3) Hawkins as Player 53, a special teamer, and backup FS
I don't see Hawkins being beaten out, but I am fine with Spann, Richardson or Mitchell should they beat out Hawkins.

4) I think Moore has a good chance to beat out Smith, although I still ahve Smith on the 53.

5) Mays over Alexander
Alexander is hurt and is in his contract year, as he isn't very good. This is the trifecta. I presume an additional veteran linebacker on the squad, so Alexander is in trouble. Mays is a top STer and is even considered to have a possible future playing lienbacker.

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JUNE 9 MGTEICH’s 53 MAN ROSTER

OFFENSE 24
QB - 2 Brady, Cassell
RB - 3 Maroney, Morris, Faulk
FB - 1 Evans
RB/FB/HB – Mills
C - 2 Koppen, Hochstein
G - 3 Neal, Mankins, Yates
OT - 4 Light, Kaycur, O'Callaghan, Britt
WR - 5 Moss, Stallworth, Welker, Caldwell, Washington/(Gaffney)/(Brown)
TE - 3 Watson, Thomas, Brady

DEFENSE 26
DE - 5 Seymour, Warren, Green, Wright, Brown
DT - 2 Wilfork, Smith/(Moore)
LB - 6 Vrabel, Colvin, Thomas, Bruschi, Seau, veteran free agent/(Alexander)
CB - 4 (Samuel), Hobbs, Scott, Gay, James/(Spann)
S - 4 Sanders, Wilson, Harrison, Meriweather
ST 5 Woods, Izzo, Hawkins/(Mitchell), Andrews, Mays/(Alexander)

SPECIALISTS (3)
P - 1 Miller
K - 1 Gostkowski
LS - 1 Paxton

 

[PYPER]

I generally agree except at WR.

I think Gaffney and Brown have the edge over Caldwell and Washington.

Gaffney impressed in his limited time last season and by the time the playoffs rolled around, he was easily our most reliable WR. I don't see Belichick forgetting that point. Plus from what I've heard, he made quite a few nice grabs this past week.

Caldwell is going to have a hard time making this team. His drops in the AFCC exposed him as a choker. I just don't see how Caldwell can overcome that. If the Pats have been anything over the past six years, it's been clutch. Caldwell clearly doesn't fit that mold. He's got speed but with Moss, Stallworth, and Welker on the roster we've got that area covered.

Brown makes the team b/c of his positional flexibility and b/c he's Troy Brown. As long as he's got something left, he'll have a place on this team.

Washington could stick but only if BB decides to keep 6 WR's or moves Brown to DB full time.

This is all assuming that Chad Jackson is placed on PUP or IR. If Jackson is healthy, he'll take the last spot ahead of Washington and/or Gaffney.

 

[patsacolachick]

I generally agree except at WR.

Caldwell is going to have a hard time making this team. His drops in the AFCC exposed him as a choker.

So his great catch in the San Diego game the week before that essentially helped us GET to the Indy game should count for nothing? Yeah, sure

 

[Remix 6]

I generally agree except at WR.

I think Gaffney and Brown have the edge over Caldwell and Washington.

Gaffney impressed in his limited time last season and by the time the playoffs rolled around, he was easily our most reliable WR. I don't see Belichick forgetting that point. Plus from what I've heard, he made quite a few nice grabs this past week.

Caldwell is going to have a hard time making this team. His drops in the AFCC exposed him as a choker. I just don't see how Caldwell can overcome that. If the Pats have been anything over the past six years, it's been clutch. Caldwell clearly doesn't fit that mold. He's got speed but with Moss, Stallworth, and Welker on the roster we've got that area covered.

Brown makes the team b/c of his positional flexibility and b/c he's Troy Brown. As long as he's got something left, he'll have a place on this team.

Washington could stick but only if BB decides to keep 6 WR's or moves Brown to DB full time.

This is all assuming that Chad Jackson is placed on PUP or IR. If Jackson is healthy, he'll take the last spot ahead of Washington and/or Gaffney.

BB said Caldwell will have a spot on this team...and hes doing well in camp unlike Washington who dropped a lot of balls.

As much as Reche pissed me off...might as well say our defense is a choker...everyone on the D because we blew a lead. and also say Brady is a choker...he threw a pick to seal the game.

 

[Va_Pats_Fan]

I see the WR's being Moss, Stalworth, Welker, Caldwell and Gafney. Washington may be a gunner, but he's an expensive one.

Also, BB has always gone with at least 3 QB's, except for early last season. Look for that to continue.

 

[patsfan13]

I see the WR's being Moss, Stalworth, Welker, Caldwell and Gafney. Washington may be a gunner, but he's an expensive one.

Also, BB has always gone with at least 3 QB's, except for early last season. Look for that to continue.

I don't think Washington makes the roster, Caldwell instead. I think Lua finds a spot on the roster, Alexander doesn't make it this year. Not sure about CB, I like the fact that Meriweather and Wilson can play CB also. I feel the Samuel situation will not have a happy ending.

Tough roster to make this year.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I've just never understood your propensity for these roster guesses. I doubt Bill knows at this point who will likely make this roster even presuming they all remain healthy. Though if he were guessing based on this past week's mini camp Washington would likely be one of the odd men out. And he's been pretty clear that if Troy is healthy he expects to see him on the roster.

 

[BelichickFan]

I've just never understood your propensity for these roster guesses.

Just something to discuss on a discussion board

BB said Caldwell will have a spot on this team

I'm not sure that means too much, he's not going to say the opposite. I have Caldwell over Gaffney, though, his body of work last year was pretty good despite . . . you know what. Washington vs. Gaffney will be a good competition, it's probably Washington's to win but 50-50 whether or not he will.

 

[DarrylS]

On your LB slots, you have:

LB - 6 Vrabel, Colvin, Thomas, Bruschi, Seau, veteran free agent/(Alexander)

Guess my question isn't there enough depth to allow Mays, possibly Lua play in the FA slot as we have so much experience & intelligence across the board to help them learn the position?? Lua is a longshot, but one of those guys who could be a diamond in the rough.. we have to find one of these guys again as we seemed to have missed it the past couple of drafts. I think Gay is the last one the Pats found, maybe Lua is the next Gay??

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

I think it's pretty much guaranteed Jackson is pupped.

 

[wistahpatsfan]

I generally agree except at WR.

...Brown makes the team b/c of his positional flexibility and b/c he's Troy Brown. As long as he's got something left, he'll have a place on this team.

I hope you're right. The idea of the Patriots without one of the original Br.. Brothers on the team sickens me...especially Troy. If the Pats release him, he will be picked up by someone for sure. I'd hate to see # 80 wearing teal or black.

 

[Rob0729]

Based on mini-camp (which you really can't go by a lot), Caldwell and Gaffney are far more up to speed with the offense than anyone else. That is going to be huge when it comes times to dole out roster spots. Both Gaffney and Caldwell themselves had long learning curves to pick up the offense last year. Remember how frustrated Brady was early last season because most of the receivers ran the wrong routes?

Stallworth, Welker, and Moss may be better talents than anything we had last year, but they all are going to struggle at least at times to pick up this offense and get continuity with Brady. Both Caldwell and Gaffney will be crucial for our early season success. I fully expect that none of the new guys will fully grasp the offense until about a month or two into the season. They might learn enough to be productive, but they will also struggle. Caldwell and Gaffney will provide continuity.

I think Washington was a long shot to make the roster the day we signed him. I look at him as this year's David Terrell or Jonathan Sullivan. The Pats signed Washington to see if any of that potential he had before he was drafted is still there. I don't think they hold a lot of hope, but they do realize that if they rekindle that spark that he could be a steal.

 

[Rob0729]

I hope you're right. The idea of the Patriots without one of the original Br.. Brothers on the team sickens me...especially Troy. If the Pats release him, he will be picked up by someone for sure. I'd hate to see # 80 wearing teal or black.

I think with every passing day that Brown is going to retire. Brown is an UFA right now. He is up there in age and coming off of offseason surgery. When you are a WR in your mid-30s, you body doesn't always rebound from knee surgery.

I can't see Brown signing with another team at his age. I don't think anyone other than maybe Crennel or Mangini signing Brown. I don't think he can provide much in terms of production at this point. If Eric Moulds can't find anyone who wants him, I doubt people will be chasing after Brown coming off of knee surgery.

If Brown is with the Pats this year, it may be in a coaching or front office position.

 

[JoeSixPat]

BB said Caldwell will have a spot on this team ..

mgteich's roster - to which most of us would agree with at least 90% shows how once again it made sense for the team to trade up for better picks next season rather than using quality picks this year.

WR will be the most interesting - BB is going to pump up every player that he can... especially Caldwell and Gaffney who are both "starting" head of Moss and Stallworth at this stage because they have better timing

(remember that everyone who gave Caldwell about 10 games to "get comfortable" with Brady before expecting too much from him... I assume you'll be doing the same for Stallworth and Moss this season!)

For that reason alone expect 6 WRs - including Brown who serves 3 roles - good hands returner, DB and WR

If everyone stays healthy - never a sure thing - Washington, Caldwell, or Gaffney could also see themselves traded for some depth at CB or LB - all have very tradeable contracts and could produce for other teams.

I'm assuming Jackson is redshirted on IR this season... might as well given our depth here

 

[psychoPat]

....
I think Washington was a long shot to make the roster the day we signed him. I look at him as this year's David Terrell or Jonathan Sullivan. The Pats signed Washington to see if any of that potential he had before he was drafted is still there. I don't think they hold a lot of hope, but they do realize that if they rekindle that spark that he could be a steal.

Kelly Washington has been an enigma to me
... and i've more or less regarded him as the least likely of the vet WRs to stick.

Rob0's characterization makes much sense.

 

[patchick]

I'm thinking the most roiling might come at the bottom of the OL roster. The Patriots drafted THREE offensive lineman -- hardly a sign that they're happy sitting pat with last year's OL depth. (On the flip side, a gutsy undersized 7th-round center does sound like perfect PS material.)

 

[Canada's #1 Pats Fan]

If Washington is cut at Training Camp then he costs the Pats approx. $300,000 (according to http://www.patscap.com/) That is a pretty expensive tryout, if you ask me. I know they did that with David Terrell a few years ago - I beleive he cost them $200,000 for his tryout. That is a lot of dead money to carry forward.

 

[Va_Pats_Fan]

If Washington is cut at Training Camp then he costs the Pats approx. $300,000 (according to http://www.patscap.com/) That is a pretty expensive tryout, if you ask me. I know they did that with David Terrell a few years ago - I beleive he cost them $200,000 for his tryout. That is a lot of dead money to carry forward.

300K? not really. BB is the first to say that they keep who is best for the team, regardless of the $$$$. This is why the contract is set up so his roster bonus is next year.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I'm assuming Jackson is redshirted on IR this season... might as well given our depth here

If Jackson is rehabbing, but potentially useful, sending him straight to IR would be beyond stupid. Put him on PUP, and if all the WRs are still in good shape at mid-season, then consider IRing him. [If he is in fact nowhere near ready, then IRing him might make sense.]

Stallworth, Welker, and Moss may be better talents than anything we had last year, but they all are going to struggle at least at times to pick up this offense and get continuity with Brady.[/B]

According to mini-camp reports, picking up the offense is not an issue for Welker.

 

[Frezo]

Kelly Washington has been an enigma to me
... and i've more or less regarded him as the least likely of the vet WRs to stick.

Rob0's characterization makes much sense.

Part of his enigma is that he's signed through the 2011 season and has a $5.76 million cap number next year and a $4.8 million roster bonus payable in 2008. I'm seeing 4 WR contracts up at the end of the season; Moss, Caldwell, Gaffney and Stallworth. (the Pats hold an option for Stallworth) Looking ahead, KW's figures appear to be #3 WR money for next year. This indicates that the Pats are not planning to re-sign both Moss and Stallworth and hope Washington can step up. Of course things can change, but next year may look like:

1: Moss/Stallworth
2: Welker
3: Washington
4: Caldwell/Gaffney
5: Jackson

This isn't a prediction, but more of an attempt to rationalize Washington's contract and I apologize for jumping ahead to next year before this year is set. IMO he is almost a lock to make the team. I suppose his contract is favorable enough that he could be traded, but he'll have to show something in T.C. If he does the Pats will put him on the roster and make the decision next season. Might they hide him on special teams? Am I off base with this stuff? (wouldn't surprise me)