This is Brady's legacy year

[solman]

This is the year that will determine Brady's legacy. Is he just a great pressure quarterback who won a bunch of superbowls? Or is he also one of the most talented quaterbacks ever to play the game.

I believe that the entirety of the statistical difference between Brady and Manning can be explained by two factors:

1. Manning plays most of his games indoors. Heading into last seasons, Brady's per game indoor statistics were better than Manning's. Brady's per game outdoor statistics were also better than Manning's. But Manning had the better overall statistics since both QBs play better in a dome, and Manning played far more games there.

2. Manning has consistently had one of the best receiving corps in the game while Brady has never had better than a mediocre set of receivers (culminating in last year's unfortunate group).

As long as Brady is in New England, there is nothing he can do about the indoor/outdoor disparity (although at least now he has field turf). But now he is playing with one of the best receiving corps in the NFL.

Are Stallworth and Moss better that Harrison and Wayne? Probably not. But at least they are close enough that you can do the comparison. It would be difficult to even ask the same question about Caldwell and Gafney.

If Brady is as good as I have always believed, then this season he will have numbers that are as good as (or substantially better than) some of Manning's best years. The entire league will have to acknowledge that his previous performance was due to a second rate (at best) cast of supporting offensive players, and that Brady does not "just win" but is also a phenomenally skilled QB. If Brady turns in another "merely" good season, then he is destined to be a guy who "just wins".

Certainly, entering the hall of fame on the first ballot, being compared to Joe Montana, and having a hand full of rings, is not a terrible fate. But Brady deserves more, and I hope that he proves it this season.

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

2004 was Manning's legacy year. It was his chance to overcome his NE problem and take the title and standing as the top QB from Brady.

2005 was Manning's legacy year. NE was out of it and Indy had homefield the whole way. They were the best team in football and threatened to go undefeated. Manning had no excuse to not win the title.

He didn't win the title either year. Going into the NE game last year Manning's legacy had become playoff failure, and an inability to beat NE in the playoffs. With two games it was entirely rewritten.

Basically, you are wrong to pinpoint it to this season and thinking about Manning for one minute should have made it obvious. If NE loses in the first round this year and then wins a couple titles in the next few years his legacy will be just fine.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Under the best of circumstances I wouldn't look for lights-out stats from Brady this year as he's going to need five or six games before we can know how it's going to work with the new receivers. I don't think the kind of chemistry that exists between a Manning and a Harrison develops in training camp or practice or preseason, but only in regular season games.

TBGoat has it right when he says we can't load a legacy into one year. Brady has, what, four years left on his contract? While he's already a lock for Canton, this is his prime and these are the years that will determine how he is remembered. Remember, he's only started 96 regular season games.

 

[dhamz]

Brady's legacy is already secure. Only stat geeks who don't understand football would think any different.

There is no "more" than having a bunch of rings and going into the Hall of Fame as his generations Joe Montana. He could throw for 5000 yards this year and it still could not get better than that.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

Brady's Legacy has been set.. He has already proven he is no Kurt Warner and a one yr wonder.. This is a yr that he could prove when he has a talented set of WR , not a bunch of shoe salesman...

 

[richpats]

Going into the NE game last year Manning's legacy had become playoff failure, and an inability to beat NE in the playoffs. With two games it was entirely rewritten.

His legacy still remains as a mediocre playoff QB. Let's see, he struggles the 1st half against the Pats D, then they lose 3 key guys and he's torching our defense. Throws 7 picks in 4 postseason games. Champion or no, he's still a mediocre playoff QB. Ben Rothleisberger was a champion and he had one of the worst game-winning performances in SB history.

 

[solman]

Brady's legacy is already secure. Only stat geeks who don't understand football would think any different.

There is no "more" than having a bunch of rings and going into the Hall of Fame as his generations Joe Montana. He could throw for 5000 yards this year and it still could not get better than that.

He is SECOND on the vast majority of lists of QBs.

If Tom Brady is widely reguarded as the second best quaterback of his era, the CLEARLY there is something missing from his legacy.

I have always felt that he was a clear first, but the plain fact of the matter is that there are few people outside of Patriots country who agree with that right now.

 

[solman]

2004 was Manning's legacy year. It was his chance to overcome his NE problem and take the title and standing as the top QB from Brady.

2005 was Manning's legacy year. NE was out of it and Indy had homefield the whole way. They were the best team in football and threatened to go undefeated. Manning had no excuse to not win the title.

He didn't win the title either year. Going into the NE game last year Manning's legacy had become playoff failure, and an inability to beat NE in the playoffs. With two games it was entirely rewritten.

Basically, you are wrong to pinpoint it to this season and thinking about Manning for one minute should have made it obvious. If NE loses in the first round this year and then wins a couple titles in the next few years his legacy will be just fine.

I don't think titles are important to Tom Brady's legacy anymore. He already has three rings. Nobody will ever question that Tom Brady is a winner.

They DO question whether Tom Brady has the raw talent of a Peyton Manning or a Dan Marino. This vexes me.

If as soon as he is given talented receivers, Tom Brady becomes a statistically great quaterback, then everybody will dismiss the statistics of his first six starting seasons (great as they were) as being greatly lowered by the quality of his receiving corp.

As far as Manning's legacy goes: His failures before this past season DO still tranish his legacy. The same people who keep on ranking him #1 would generally want Tom Brady starting a playoff game for them, not Peyton Manning.

 

[BelichickFan]

What if we don't make the playoffs this year then win three straight SB starting in 2008 ? This year would be irrelevant. Brady's legacy is his entire career and he already has three Super Bowls.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Good post. IMO if Brady takes the Patriots on another 3 superbowl championships run in the upcoming years, he will be considered the Michael Jordan of football, and without argument, the best QB in football EVER. With his new supporting cast on offense I believe that Brady can really take it to the next level. It should be a lot of fun to watch!

 

[sieglo]

If as soon as he is given talented receivers, Tom Brady becomes a statistically great quaterback, then everybody will dismiss the statistics of his first six starting seasons (great as they were) as being greatly lowered by the quality of his receiving corp.

Is it possible to be a statistically great QB on a Bill Belichick football team?

 

[VJCPatriot]

Is it possible to be a statistically great QB on a Bill Belichick football team?

Why not? In 2005 Tom Brady led the league in passing yardage, yes more yards than Peyton Manning, with Branch and Givens as his top targets.
I think Moss and Stallworth are better than that tandem, and factor in a maturing Maroney and Watson and you have a recipe for explosive offense in 2007.

 

[QuiGon]

This is the year that will determine Brady's legacy. Is he just a great pressure quarterback who won a bunch of superbowls? Or is he also one of the most talented quaterbacks ever to play the game.

This is a silly premise. If Brady doesn't win a Super Bowl this year but finishes with 4 or 5 titles, no one's going to look at his career and say "Yeah, he was good but once he lost in 2007, I knew he wasn't for real..."

 

[solman]

This is a silly premise. If Brady doesn't win a Super Bowl this year but finishes with 4 or 5 titles, no one's going to look at his career and say "Yeah, he was good but once he lost in 2007, I knew he wasn't for real..."

Do you deny that even when it was Brady 3, Manning 0, people were saying stuff like "If I had to start a franchise, I'd want Manning, not Brady as QB"? Superbowl titles are, in and of themselves, not sufficient to settle the argument.

If Brady retires with 3 or even 4 titles, and his statistics remain the same (and again, those are pretty darn good statistics), we will hear people saying that he wasn't as good as his superbowl record for all eternity.

If he gets five titles, people will still think it (but they won't say it )

 

[richpats]

As far as Manning's legacy goes: His failures before this past season DO still tranish his legacy.

Don't worry, the second after the Colts lose in the playoffs, all of the talk will resume once again. "Can he win another?" "Is he a one-hit wonder?" "Can he win without Dungy?" There will always be some doubt based on his past (and inevitable future) playoff failures.

 

[QuiGon]

Do you deny that even when it was Brady 3, Manning 0, people were saying stuff like "If I had to start a franchise, I'd want Manning, not Brady as QB"? Superbowl titles are, in and of themselves, not sufficient to settle the argument.

If Brady retires with 3 or even 4 titles, and his statistics remain the same (and again, those are pretty darn good statistics), we will hear people saying that he wasn't as good as his superbowl record for all eternity.

If he gets five titles, people will still think it (but they won't say it )

Everything you've just written here may all be very well and good, but it has nothing to do with your original contention that started this thread. You wrote "This is the year that will determine Brady's legacy." It is simply ridiculous to take a 3 time Super Bowl champion and pin his entire legacy to one single year... like if he fails to win a Super Bowl this year then all of a sudden everyone is going to say "Well, he's just not all that good and shouldn't go to the Hall of Fame..."

 

[richpats]

Everything you've just written here may all be very well and good, but it has nothing to do with your original contention that started this thread. You wrote "This is the year that will determine Brady's legacy." It is simply ridiculous to take a 3 time Super Bowl champion and pin his entire legacy to one single year... like if he fails to win a Super Bowl this year then all of a sudden everyone is going to say "Well, he's just not all that good and shouldn't go to the Hall of Fame..."

True, but I really don't want to lose out to the Colts and hear about how Brady has failed in the playoffs 3 straight years while Manning gets another ring and they've somehow "switched places".

 

[solman]

Everything you've just written here may all be very well and good, but it has nothing to do with your original contention that started this thread. You wrote "This is the year that will determine Brady's legacy." It is simply ridiculous to take a 3 time Super Bowl champion and pin his entire legacy to one single year... like if he fails to win a Super Bowl this year then all of a sudden everyone is going to say "Well, he's just not all that good and shouldn't go to the Hall of Fame..."

OK, let me clarify my comments.

In my mind, a player's legacy is what people think of when that player's name comes up decades after he has stopped playing.

We KNOW that people will say that he won games. Even if Tom Brady sucks the rest of his career, an 80-25 regular season during his first seven seasons proves that.

We KNOW that people will say that he could win big games. 12-2 in the playoffs, 3-0 in the Superbowl during his first seven seasons proves that.

We KNOW that people will say he was a great pressure QB. We KNOW that people will say he was a great leader.

The one aspect of his legacy that remains in doubt is what people think of his on field passing talent.

When people say that Tom Brady "just wins" there is an implication that he only wins; that his winning record far exceeds his observable on field performance.

I think that is just plain wrong. I think that Montana in his prime with Gaffney and Caldwell (instead of Rice and Taylor) wouldn't perform nearly as well as Brady did. I think that Manning would be a joke is you made a similar substitution for Harrison and Wayne.

But this year IS especially important if he wants to prove it because this is his first year with a quality receiving corps. Only by producing great numbers THIS season can he prove that his past numbers were the result of inferior receivers. Great performances in future years won't be sufficient to accomplish this.

 

[Nordberg]

Solman.....you speak the truth my friend. I'm with you 110%.

My dream season is for Brady to not only win....but light up his stats this year. On the surface, I don't care if Brady puts up huge stats, as long as the Pats are winning I am happy. But wouldn't it be great to for the season to playout as follows:

Brady throws for over 4,000 yards and 40 TD'S.

While Harrison and Wayne miss time due to minor injuries throughout the season (don't wish major injury on anyone) and Manning looks lost with who ever the replacements are.

Brady wins MVP.....and superbowl of course.

Every football fan that EVER discussed the Manning vs. Brady thing would only be able to think one thing.

IT WASSSSSSSSSSS THE RECEIVERS.

 

[FarScapeR]

That is a scary thought.