Welker Trade Still Affecting Dolphins

[Aqua4Ever04]

This is an excellent reprsentation of the misuse of statistics.

Okay, so did you watch the 16 Dolphins' games last year? Go ahead, give me your analysis of Welker because I GUARENTEE I can break down 2006 Wes Welker better than any one here.

Welker is resticted in terms of his route running. He can't vertically stretch the field and can't work the flats. He is only a slant or stop guy over the middle for 6 or 7 yards. You also can't use him in the red zone. He doesn't have good leaping skills or the big frame to do so. Welker is no where near the player most of you guys make him out to be, trust me. Is he a nice little addition to the receiver core? Sure, he will be a good #3 for you, but he won't be a good starter and won't set the world on fire.

 

[spacecrime]

Welker is resticted in terms of his route running. He can't vertically stretch the field and can't work the flats. He is only a slant or stop guy over the middle for 6 or 7 yards. You also can't use him in the red zone. He doesn't have good leaping skills or the big frame to do so. Welker is no where near the player most of you guys make him out to be, trust me. Is he a nice little addition to the receiver core? Sure, he will be a good #3 for you, but he won't be a good starter and won't set the world on fire.

So who led your team in receiving last year? He is a nice pickup and will make a solid #3 receiver. For us. For you, #1 receiver.

Why are you so obsessed with Welker anyway?

He's ours now. You could have paid him more. he's gone, get over it.

The big difference for Welker between this year and the last three is that in 2007 he'll be in the playoffs.

 

[Aqua4Ever04]

So who led your team in receiving last year? He is a nice pickup and will make a solid #3 receiver. For us. For you, #1 receiver.

Why are you so obsessed with Welker anyway?

He's ours now. You could have paid him more. he's gone, get over it.

The big difference for Welker between this year and the last three is that in 2007 he'll be in the playoffs.

That would be Marty Booker. He had the most yards and TDs for the Dolphins last year and Chris Chambers had 10 less yards than Welker and 3 more TDs so he did better himself. Even in a career year for Welker and the worse years of Chambers' and Booker's career, he still wasn't better.

I'm not obsessed with Welker, I hate him. I can't wait for him to try to run a crossing route with Zach Thomas, Joey Porter and Channing Crowder waiting for him. He will make you guys realize you got robbed for that 2nd round pick this year.

 

[spacecrime]

I'm not obsessed with Welker, I hate him. I can't wait for him to try to run a crossing route with Zach Thomas, Joey Porter and Channing Crowder waiting for him. He will make you guys realize you got robbed for that 2nd round pick this year.

Ha ha. If you need three guys to cover Welker you are in trouble. Who's going to cover Stallworth, Caldwell, Watson and Thomas?

I missed your answer to my question. Who did you say had the most receptions for the Dolphins last year.

Come on, say it.

 

[zippo59]

Talking about the "career numbers" of a three-year vet is dumb. He's got a lot of improvement ahead of him:

YEAR TEAM G REC YDS AVG LNG TD FD FUM LOST
2005 MIA 16 29 434 15.0 47 0 20 0 0
2006 MIA 16 67 687 10.3 38 1 33 0 0

That's pretty good improvement between a guy's 1st and 2nd year as a full-time receiver. All with a crappy QB, to boot. Brady? He's a little bit better.

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate for a second and say that perhaps playing for a crappy QB hurt Welker's yardage but helped his catches. They often had Welker running little dump off routes underneath, and when watching Harrington it was clear that he had no confidence in his own abilities. Perhaps Harrington would forgo the longer pass because of his own self doubt and poor decision making and instead would opt to throw the easy short pass to Welker. As a result Welker had more receptions than he would have if he had a competent QB who would actually attempt and complete the longer, down field passes. But at the same time Welkers YPC would be down because he had to run those dump off routes to act as a security blanket to his incompetent QB. Just entertaining the possibility, not saying I necessarily feel this way.

 

[spacecrime]

Even in a career year for Welker and the worse year of ... Booker's career, he still wasn't better.

How well do you know your team, anyway?

Booker played for you guys for three years. Did you know that? Or that last year was his best with your team (NOT his worst) and he STILL caught fewer passes than Welker. In his best year while starting 13 games (Welker started 2).

Booker
year rec yards
2004 50 638
2005 39 686
2006 55 747

Face it, Welker and Booker aren't that far apart in ave stats. Booker is slightly better but he started almost every game for three years and Welker started 3 games in three years.

You shouldn't hate Welker. You should hate your coaching staff. Had you played Welker more you'd have been in the playoffs.

 

[Aqua4Ever04]

Ha ha. If you need three guys to cover Welker you are in trouble. Who's going to cover Stallworth, Caldwell, Watson and Thomas?

I missed your answer to my question. Who did you say had the most receptions for the Dolphins last year.

Come on, say it.

Look exactly at what Zippo says, he actully watched the games and understands. Besides, what does catches have to do with anything if you can't get yards out of it. When people talk about receivers leading their taea, they go by yards.

 

[Aqua4Ever04]

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate for a second and say that perhaps playing for a crappy QB hurt Welker's yardage but helped his catches. They often had Welker running little dump off routes underneath, and when watching Harrington it was clear that he had no confidence in his own abilities. Perhaps Harrington would forgo the longer pass because of his own self doubt and poor decision making and instead would opt to throw the easy short pass to Welker. As a result Welker had more receptions than he would have if he had a competent QB who would actually attempt and complete the longer, down field passes. But at the same time Welkers YPC would be down because he had to run those dump off routes to act as a security blanket to his incompetent QB. Just entertaining the possibility, not saying I necessarily feel this way.

You're exactly right Zippo. Chambers was neglected by Harrington last year because he was going down the football field and deep in over the middle or to the outside. Harrington was very aware of his inaccuracy when it came to throwing the ball down the field so he was quick to take check down routes on short dumbs over the middle to Welker. Those are the only routes Welker can really run, that's why is Ave. is so low.

 

[zippo59]

You're exactly right Zippo. Chambers was neglected by Harrington last year because he was going down the football field and deep in over the middle or to the outside. Harrington was very aware of his inaccuracy when it came to throwing the ball down the field so he was quick to take check down routes on short dumbs over the middle to Welker. Those are the only routes Welker can really run, that's why is Ave. is so low.

Well in 2005 Welker did average a very respectable 15 yards per catch, so I wouldn't say he is incapable of catching anything other than dump offs.

 

[Aqua4Ever04]

Well in 2005 Welker did average a very respectable 15 yards per catch, so I wouldn't say he is incapable of catching anything other than dump offs.

Good point, but to consider him the Dolphins best receiver is just stupid. In 2005 he was allowed more freedom what in 2006 he got back to what he does best and that's taking check down routes. I'd rather have Derek Hagan over him at this point.

 

[RayClay]

Good point, but to consider him the Dolphins best receiver is just stupid. In 2005 he was allowed more freedom what in 2006 he got back to what he does best and that's taking check down routes. I'd rather have Derek Hagan over him at this point.

He's a perfect fit by our offense, he was expendable by you, (as is every player on your team, basically-I mean where are you guys going the next couple years anyway?).

That's why teams make trades.

 

[Aqua4Ever04]

He's a perfect fit by our offense, he was expendable by you, (as is every player on your team, basically-I mean where are you guys going the next couple years anyway?).

That's why teams make trades.

Wait so what does this say about the Patriots? If the Dolphins players are all garbage why have the Pats signed 3 of them this off-season?

I do recall when Welker was a Dolphin all you guys said he was no worry to you but now a visitor of Patsfans would think he is the next Steve Largent.

Besides, we're going to suprise people next year. Our defense is too good to lose to many games.

 

[spacecrime]

Look exactly at what Zippo says, he actully watched the games and understands. Besides, what does catches have to do with anything if you can't get yards out of it. When people talk about receivers leading their taea, they go by yards.

So you are saying that Booker is better than Welker because Booker got more yards? And Welker is better than Chambers because Welker got more yards? You can't hav it both ways.

Fact is that all three were very close. Here are the average yards per game in 2006:

46.7 Booker
42.9 Welker
42.3 Chambers

Face facts. You weakened your team by losing Welker. You got a second round pick that you will use to trade for Trent Greenhead, whose concussions will result in his playing even fewer games for you than Culpepper did.

You should have kept Damon Huard. He was 5-1 as a Fin starter, so of course you cut him. You'd rather run the string of losers Fiedler-Feelye-Culpepper-Green.

And Huard is better than Green. Just ask the Chiefs.

Or are you gong to tell us that Green is the answer? Just go back to last year's idiotic bragging posts, and cut and paste, changing Culpepper to Green.

The AFCE is a two-team division.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Well the difference betwen Welker and a 2nd round pick is that Welker is a proven player. A 2nd round pick on the other hand can turn into Marquise Hill.... You get the picture.

Wait so what does this say about the Patriots? If the Dolphins players are all garbage why have the Pats signed 3 of them this off-season?

I do recall when Welker was a Dolphin all you guys said he was no worry to you but now a visitor of Patsfans would think he is the next Steve Largent.

Besides, we're going to suprise people next year. Our defense is too good to lose to many games.

Nobody's saying the Dolphin players are garbage. Jason Taylor is a fine football player. It's just the team that he's on that's awful.

Yes siree bob, you sure are going places with Mr. Lemon and Mr. Culpepper! Right now, Mary Poppins sounds like more of threat on the football field than those duds. As someone said, if you make the deal for Trent Green he's only a concussion away from retirement, but sadly it is better than what you currently have. Hope you enjoy watching golf during the postseason. :singing:

 

[Aqua4Ever04]

Welker overachieved and Chambers underachieved BIG TIME. We got a 2nd round pick which will help our OL and won't go towards Green because we aren't giving up more than a 6th for him. We'll see about it being a 2 team division, that's what we thought last year with the Pats and the Dolphins. But you're probably right, they should just give the trophy to the Pats right now.

 

[MDPATSFAN]

I like to think that there is such a thing as a good trade for both teams. Gaining a WR capable of pulling in 60-70 passes, providing excellent KR/PR duties seems like a fair trade for a 2nd & 7th round pick

Now of course the Dolphins have a stellar history when it comes to judging quality QBs so that's bound to work out well for them too

(Can our Fin Fans here remind me again of how many draft choices and free agent signings you've traded away and or used for a QB since 2000? My guess is its gotta be pretty close to the equivilent of an ENTIRE draft class - not to mention the salary cap wasted on the failed experiments)

They also gave up two firsts and a third for "Qwuai Chang" Williams who subsequently retired and wandered the Earth seeking the finest herb.

 

[JoeSixPat]

They also gave up two firsts and a third for "Qwuai Chang" Williams who subsequently retired and wandered the Earth seeking the finest herb.

Note that Aqua4Ever has responded to every question except the one asking for his count on how many draft picks and free agents have been wasted on QB experiments?

I say they just take their entire draft board and take all QBs this year too!

 

[spacecrime]

Welker overachieved and Chambers underachieved BIG TIME.

Chris Chamber is who he is, but on what basis do you say Welker overrachieved? He played for three years and got better every year. That's what I don't understand. When a player gets better every year, don't you have to wait until he plateaus or drops back before saying he hit his peak? You are saying his peak was his second year in the league (after he hardly played his first year) and that subsequent improvement is "overachieving."

That's like saying David Givens overachieved when he looked really good his third year (after playing merely okay his second year in the league). There are a lot of players who do better their second year of real playing time. In fact most of them. Some plateau, some keep improving. I think you need to hold onto the players as long as they are improving because you don't know how good they can get. Some players develop slower than others.

You talk about Bookers and Chambers getting more yards than Welker, but they started almost every game AND they got the ball tossed to deeper down the field. Welker played the slot. That's were he will play for us. We don't need him to lead our team in catches. Just make those third and six catches for seven yards.

I guess we will have to wait and see how he does, but to me he is exactly what we need. A young Troy Brown type. We win superbowls with that type of player. You go 6-10 with players like Chambers and Booker.

I have no problem with that.

We'll see about it being a 2 team division, that's what we thought last year with the Pats and the Dolphins.

Not we. You thought that because you signed the mighty Culpepper and because your first string defense managed to beat out fourth string offense the last game of the year before.

We all thought the Dolphins sucked.

 

[dhamz]

Chambers underachieved BIG TIME.

It seems that this is said every year about Chambers.

The only season that it wasn't said about him was the 2005 season and that is because he put together 3 tremendous weeks in a row that made everyone forget the 13 other weeks when he was his typical underachieving self.