What is Carriker's value on the team?

[threepeater]

So I've been reading this board a lot recently for it's always-interesting insight into draft possibilities, and I'm puzzled by the obsession with drafting Carriker. Doesn't he project as an OLB or DE? Aren't those two positions we have totally locked up at this point? Why are people so excited about drafting someone who most likely will be behind Colvin and Thomas on the depth charts? I'd much rather draft a prospect for ILB, Safety (preferably strong not free) or to a lesser extend CB.

Maybe I'm just missing something? Someone please fill me in. Thanks!

Threepeater

 

[Remix 6]

So I've been reading this board a lot recently for it's always-interesting insight into draft possibilities, and I'm puzzled by the obsession with drafting Carriker. Doesn't he project as an OLB or DE? Aren't those two positions we have totally locked up at this point? Why are people so excited about drafting someone who most likely will be behind Colvin and Thomas on the depth charts? I'd much rather draft a prospect for ILB, Safety (preferably strong not free) or to a lesser extend CB.

Maybe I'm just missing something? Someone please fill me in. Thanks!

Threepeater

he does not project as an OLB regardless of his workout #s..thats like Seymour or WArren playing OLB

hes a 3-4 DE and i think we should pass unless we arent satisfied with Sey or Warren which i doubt we have problems with

 

[patchick]

I'd call Carriker a true-blue 3-4 DE, born to play that position and none other. As it happens, Richard Seymour, Ty Warren, Jarvis Green and Mike Wright do make up one of the best lineups of 3-4 DEs any team has ever fielded. (Oh, and Marquise Hill, sorry. ) BUT, a top-flight 3-4 DE is one of the rarest birds in any draft. Carriker's combination of size and athleticism is truly extraordinary, and his head's on straight too. If you have the choice of taking that player, or, say, taking a good but not thrilling safety and handing Carriker to the Jets, it's mighty tempting to grab the talent.

 

[sebman2112]

Yea, he's not an OLB, but a DE. I'll take him at 24 in a heart beat, but he's probably gone before then. Seymour, Warren, Carriker, Green as your main DE rotation would be sick, and Carriker could take over for Warren if they arent able to extend him. Having a DE of Carriker's caliber locked down for the next five years would be very good, and would allow NE more flexibility when it comes to dealing with other players, and positions.

 

[Warren94]

I think he would add good depth. Warren, Seymour, Wilfork After that was is the depth Hill (Bust in some people's eyes) Wright, Green

 

[sebman2112]

I think he would add good depth. Warren, Seymour, Wilfork After that was is the depth Hill (Bust in some people's eyes) Wright, Green

And, Carriker's a good pass rusher. I've seen that guy eat QB's up. NE's pass rush wasn't that great last year, so adding AD, then potentially adding someone like Carriker at DE, Woodley at OLB/SILB, or Stewart at OLB/SILB would completely upgrade NE's pass rush, and blitzing. Not to mention Carriker, Woodley, and Bradley are all good against the run.

 

[threepeater]

Ok, but I guess if he's a real DE and not a tweener the problem is even worse. As has been mentioned, he'd be playing behind even more depth than an OLB rookie would. I get the argument that if we can't lock up Warren he fits right in for years to come, but we've got Warren right now. And next season. What we don't have is the future at ILB or strong safety. It seems like there are a number of good-to-great (but not elite) prospects there we could grab with 24 or 28.

Every year there seem to be at least 5 or 6 DEs that go in the first round, but its much rarer to hear buzz about a 3-4 ILB prospect. Doesn't it make sense to go for need here when the other need (future DE after Warren leaves) should be easier to fill? Not that I'm complaining about getting a great player for the future, but this team seems primed for a great season, someone to contribute in the middle of the defense this year and in the future seems like a smarter move than drafting a DE with the eye only on the long term.

 

[bakes781]

I don't know that there any top ILB prospects that fit the 3-4. Patrick Willis maybe, but he's likely going in the top 15.

 

[Warren94]

And, Carriker's a good pass rusher. I've seen that guy eat QB's up. NE's pass rush wasn't that great last year, so adding AD, then potentially adding someone like Carriker at DE, Woodley at OLB/SILB, or Stewart at OLB/SILB would completely upgrade NE's pass rush, and blitzing. Not to mention Carriker, Woodley, and Bradley are all good against the run.

That would be a nice three picks in the draft. Maybe remove woodley (even though I love his game) for a CB

 

[BelichickFan]

The value to me is that it gives us a true backup 3-4 end for when Seymour or Warren is hurt, gives them the chance to rotate the DE throughout the game and to also put Seymour or Warren in at NT to rest Wilfork at times.

Wright is OK, Green is a really good role player. But Carriker would give us, assuming he came through, three legit starting quality DE for two spots - which is a good thing especially as Seymour and Warren can play a solid NT too.

I don't want to trade way up for Carriker but he'd be near or at the top of my list if he made it to #24.

 

[patchick]

Every year there seem to be at least 5 or 6 DEs that go in the first round, but its much rarer to hear buzz about a 3-4 ILB prospect. Doesn't it make sense to go for need here when the other need (future DE after Warren leaves) should be easier to fill?

If the choice were between Carriker and a 3-4 ILB prospect of equal caliber, then you betcha, I'd take the ILB in a heartbeat. But the only LB anybody thinks fits that description is Willis (and that's hotly debated). The chances that both Willis and Carriker make it to 24 are virtually nil. So the real choice, IF Carriker should slip to 24, would be between him and a 2nd-tier ILB like David Harris. I like Harris, but he's not the same echelon of talent.

 

[BelichickFan]

If the choice were between Carriker and a 3-4 ILB prospect of equal caliber, then you betcha, I'd take the ILB in a heartbeat.

I bet Belichick would take Carriker over Willis

 

[cstjohn17]

I bet Belichick would take Carriker over Willis

Especially if he can play TE.

 

[Warren94]

Does anyone think BB would take Olson or Miller if either are there?

 

[PATSNUTme]

I bet Belichick would take Carriker over Willis

BB knows that the area of need at ILB that must be filled this year. So, I would bet that he would take the best ILB that has come out in the past couple of years. He would take Willis.

That is right, I think Willis is better than Hawk.

 

[BelichickFan]

BB knows that the area of need at ILB that must be filled this year. So, I would bet that he would take the best ILB that has come out in the past couple of years. He would take Willis.

That is right, I think Willis is better than Hawk.

Well your little love fest with Willis is cute. But Belichick remembers that when Warren got hurt he had to move Seymour out of position because Green is mainly a DRE. Between the depth thing plus the value of being able to rotate 3 guys for two spots, being able to spell Vince and playing an even more scary 4 man line, I think Carriker will be above Willis on the Patriots' board. Not to mention Belichick wouldn't want Mangina to be able to get Carriker with the next pick.

 

[patchick]

Well your little love fest with Willis is cute. But Belichick remembers that when Warren got hurt he had to move Seymour out of position because Green is mainly a DRE.

I'm a Carriker fan too, but to follow your line of reasoning...doesn't Belichick remember what happened when Seau went down last year, or before Bruschi was back?

 

[sebman2112]

Well your little love fest with Willis is cute. But Belichick remembers that when Warren got hurt he had to move Seymour out of position because Green is mainly a DRE. Between the depth thing plus the value of being able to rotate 3 guys for two spots, being able to spell Vince and playing an even more scary 4 man line, I think Carriker will be above Willis on the Patriots' board. Not to mention Belichick wouldn't want Mangina to be able to get Carriker with the next pick.

I'm going to leave Willis out of the discussion, and just talk about Carriker (You all know what I think about Willis). Anyways, I think bringing up NE's shifting to a 4-3 front needs to be brought up when talking about Carriker.

NE plays both fronts, and having Carriker on the team would give them a 4-3 front of:
Seymour Wilfork Warren Carriker
Thomas Bruschi Colvin
or

Seymour Wilfork Warren Carriker
Thomas Bruschi Vrabel

or

Seymour Wilfork Warren Carriker
Colvin Bruschi Thomas

or

Seymour Wilfork Warren Carriker
Colvin Thomas Vrabel

 

[bakes781]

Does anyone think BB would take Olson or Miller if either are there?

Not much outside of a QB or K would surprise me with BB/Pioli in regards to the 1st Day of the draft.

 

[patchick]

I think bringing up NE's shifting to a 4-3 front needs to be brought up when talking about Carriker.

A fine point indeed.

Seymour Wilfork Warren Carriker
Colvin Thomas Vrabel

Would that be the single biggest front 7 of all time? With 270-lb Thomas the quick coverage specialist?