PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Wonderlic results


Status
Not open for further replies.
This jives with some of the leaked scores I've been collecting.

FWIW, don't be surprised to see 2. Anthony Pudewell, TE, Nevada (39) wearing a Pats uni.

Thanks for posting the list.

You're welcome, and on Pudewell, wouldn't surprise me either, since he plays the position B/P have drafted the most in the past 5 seasons.
 
I guess I'm the one to dive into shark-infested waters.

How many are caucasian?

How many are african-american?
 
I guess I'm the one to dive into shark-infested waters.

How many are caucasian?

How many are african-american?
Top Ten: 7 of 10 white

Bottom Ten: 10 of 10 black

Did you expect anything else? Not sure why this is "shark-infested waters"... seems like common knowledge to me.
 
Oh yea... 65 rating... just fine. Young is going to bust so hard, he's a friggin dumbass.

In NFL... 8-5 record as a starter

In college... 30-2 record as a starter

I actually made an error. VY is doing more than "just fine."
 
I guess I'm the one to dive into shark-infested waters.

How many are caucasian?

How many are african-american?

How many are Asian?

How many are Hispanic?

Why does race matter? :confused:
 
It doesn't, but why should it be off-limits?

I didn't say it should be off limits... but I'm wondering what is the relevance of it to choosing the right player?
 
How many are Asian?

How many are Hispanic?

Why does race matter? :confused:

It does matter,that's why I had the courage to bring it up,all-knowing I would be vilified for doing so.

It's important that these things become part of society's dialogue.......not two societies....separate,
but equal.

When they are swept under the rug and left to the
imagination,without discussion......those are the "silent" questions that destroy society.

So,fire away.....just don't be silent or submissive.
 
Do NOT be surprised when the Pats choose Justin Blalock in Round 1.

Smart, can run and is an absolute BEAST! Sounds like Patriot material.
 
In NFL... 8-5 record as a starter

In college... 30-2 record as a starter

I actually made an error. VY is doing more than "just fine."

But in his last game, 2 picks and 1 fumble, facing a very cerebral defensive team. Intelligence is being about to process information presented quickly and execute with the information provided. Paralysis by analysis isn't a pretty catchphrase, it has significant applications in life. VYs athletic ability got him his record to date. My bet, when he has to face the Pats, the Jets, the Steelers and Ravens, the tough D's that can show you one thing and do another, his shortcomings will come to the forefront, just like they did against the Pats.
 
Do NOT be surprised when the Pats choose Justin Blalock in Round 1.

Smart, can run and is an absolute BEAST! Sounds like Patriot material.
If they project him to Tackle, I agree. I think they're happy enough with the Guards, though, that they wouldn't spend a #1 on that position.
 
If they project him to Tackle, I agree. I think they're happy enough with the Guards, though, that they wouldn't spend a #1 on that position.

That same logic could apply to the defensive side of the ball as well, but there are three #1s there. I think that the philosophy is that you can't have too many big smart and athletic guys on the team, especially in the trenches, where they impact on every snap. If Blalock can upgrade the running game, he'll likely be the pick somewhere in Round 1.
 
Like all intelligence tests so far conceived, the Wonderlic has its problems--cultural problems. It does not and cannot account for an individual's learning environment, culture, childhood, education, intellectual encouragement and many similar factors. What chance does a high IQ person--regardless of race--have to develop his or her intelligence while growing up in the ghetto?

What we really need, if we're to judge the ability for abstract thought, the ability to learn, quickness of thought, creativity and imagination, and other aspects of intelligence is a direct physiological test of the grey matter itself, the intelligence equivalent of an electrocardiogram. No such test exists.

As a result, people who score poorly on the standard tests, such as the Wonderlic, are often smarter than their scores indicate, sometimes a LOT smarter. Sometimes see this expressed when coaches say a player "really knows the game," or some variation. They're talking about the application of innate intelligence.

Recent years have given us a terrific example of how wrong intelligence tests could be. One athlete, for instance, scored 88 on an IQ test, which is maybe 100 points less than Einstein. And yet during his athletic career, it became clear that he was one of his sport's smartest practitioners. His name is Mohammad Ali.

It is still possible, unfortunately, to connect intelligence with race, but that raises more questions than it answers. What if someone is half black, half white? What if someone has an Asian genetic background, but appears Caucasian?

It's awfully hard to categorize people by race when race itself is hard, if not possible to determine. How many white southerners, for instance, have no African-American genes? And vice-versa? At what point do some genes predominate and others take a recessive role?

At any rate, for all that we know about the workings of the brain, in the physiological sense, all normally developed human beings fall in the same range of innate intelligence, regardless of apparent race.

So yes, we can make a pretty good guess about the Wonderlic, but it will tell us a lot less than we think it does. It's really a measure of exposure to mainstream culture and mainstream opportunities.
 
Last edited:
It's really a measure of exposure to mainstream culture and mainstream opportunities.
Too many pollutants in the mainstream, I'm a fan of branch water myself.
 
So yes, we can make a pretty good guess about the Wonderlic, but it will tell us a lot less than we think it does. It's really a measure of exposure to mainstream culture and mainstream opportunities.

Sure, it would be ridiculous for anyone to suggest that the Wonderlic is a measure of anyone's innate intellectual potential at birth. But likewise, it would be ridiculous to suggest that a combine 40 time is a measure of anyone's innate speed potential at birth. The Wonderlic is simply a snapshot in time of how an individual fares at a particular type of task. Like a 40 score it should be taken in the context of the individual's background and accomplishments, and weighted more for some positions than others.

(One way the Wonderlic is different is that it could influence your future outside of football if it's leaked to the press. A guy like Bo Smith probably isn't looking at a multimillion-$ NFL career, and now any potential employer who googles him learns he "flunked an IQ test.")
 
Like all intelligence tests so far conceived, the Wonderlic has its problems--cultural problems. It does not and cannot account for an individual's learning environment, culture, childhood, education, intellectual encouragement and many similar factors. What chance does a high IQ person--regardless of race--have to develop his or her intelligence while growing up in the ghetto?

I didn't realize that they didn't have books or libraries at the schools in the "ghetto". All it takes is to WANT to LEARN. You can go through time and look at all the people who came from lesser environments, yet went on to be strong and influential people in history.

The PROBLEM is that, as a society, we allow this sort of Victim Mentality thinking to hold people back.

What we really need, if we're to judge the ability for abstract thought, the ability to learn, quickness of thought, creativity and imagination, and other aspects of intelligence is a direct physiological test of the grey matter itself, the intelligence equivalent of an electrocardiogram. No such test exists.

As a result, people who score poorly on the standard tests, such as the Wonderlic, are often smarter than their scores indicate, sometimes a LOT smarter. Sometimes see this expressed when coaches say a player "really knows the game," or some variation. They're talking about the application of innate intelligence.

Recent years have given us a terrific example of how wrong intelligence tests could be. One athlete, for instance, scored 88 on an IQ test, which is maybe 100 points less than Einstein. And yet during his athletic career, it became clear that he was one of his sport's smartest practitioners. His name is Mohammad Ali.

Most sports are based on repetition. Its not hard to learn something when you repeatedly do it over and over again. That is not taking anything away from Mohammad Ali. He was a great boxer.

It is still possible, unfortunately, to connect intelligence with race, but that raises more questions than it answers. What if someone is half black, half white? What if someone has an Asian genetic background, but appears Caucasian?

It's awfully hard to categorize people by race when race itself is hard, if not possible to determine. How many white southerners, for instance, have no African-American genes? And vice-versa? At what point do some genes predominate and others take a recessive role?

At any rate, for all that we know about the workings of the brain, in the physiological sense, all normally developed human beings fall in the same range of innate intelligence, regardless of apparent race.

So yes, we can make a pretty good guess about the Wonderlic, but it will tell us a lot less than we think it does. It's really a measure of exposure to mainstream culture and mainstream opportunities.

Have you actually taken the Wonderlic Test? Most of it is things that people learn by the time they are in the 6th grade. Are you really saying that 6th grade comprehension of sentences is too much to ask of people because of the environment they grew up in?
 
All it takes is to WANT to learn? That's it? So the reason ghetto kids don't get an education is that they're lazy or uninterested? Do you really believe that DaBruinz? Parents and drugs and crime have nothing to do with it?

Have I taken the Wonderlic? The sample test, yes. I got them all correct. If I hadn't, that would have been pathetic, given the education I got, as well as the parental encouragement and economic stratum I came from. Probably the same for you, DaBruinz. If you missed any, you should be ashamed of yourself.

My wife is a fourth grade teacher in an economically disadvantaged area--not a big city ghetto, since all of her students are white. But you can already see what their parents and their environment has done to them. They get no help or encouragement at home. Their parents think of school as a baby-sitting service, nothing more. They actually don't want their children to do any better in life than they do--they resent the very idea and believe it or not, they say so.

By the way, if you think that all or even most of the schools in economically disadvantaged areas have a reasonable supply of books and libraries, you're mistaken. My wife's school, for instance, hasn't had textbooks for more than a decade, and that situation is commonplace, not just in Maine, but throughout the United States.

Some of these kids are innately smart, but they will not rise above their parents. They will be poor, they will use drugs, they will get in trouble with the law, they will not finish high school (or pay any attention when they're there), they will not go to college. Because they're lazy? No. Because they've been set up to fail by their parents and their peers. Because they don't see a way out and, except in very unusual cases, they're right.

It isn't just a matter of trying harder, DaBruinz. It's a great deal more complicated than that. There are no simple explanations and no easy answers.
 
It isn't just a matter of trying harder, DaBruinz. It's a great deal more complicated than that. There are no simple explanations and no easy answers.

Kinda like trying to figure out BB's defensive scheme.

Anywho, some people just aren't test takers at a desk (whether they've been at a University for 4 years or less or not)......doesn't mean they can't pass the test on a grassy turf on Sundays in the NFL.
 
Mainefan, I appreciate where you're coming from and I agree with a lot of what you say. But there are some contradictions and fallacies that come up a lot on the fraught topic of so-called-IQ tests.

One contradiction, IMO, is to point to the vast inequities in environment -- some kids growing up without the encouragement, opportunities, even safety and nutrition they need to realize their potential -- but then to claim that they end up just as capable, and that the test results are wrong. If a positive environment is critical for kids' long-term development, then the test result gap is evidence of that, no? Meanwhile the most common fallacy (again, IMO) is to suggest that since the tests don't truly measure "intelligence," they should be ignored or discounted. Because whatever it is that they measure...let's call it Wonderlic-Test-Taking-Skill (WTTS)...matters. It is hugely predictive of all kinds of positive life outcome variables.

To bring the discussion back to football, the NFL obviously thinks that WTTS is a useful data point for predicting a player's ability or readiness for certain job tasks, say digesting a new and complex playbook off the field. It's virtually impossible to measure its effect on actual NFL success, because the sample size is small and the confounding variables enormous: position, playing scheme, even draft position. (A 1st-round player is probably joining a team with a hole at his position, giving him more opportunity to make an impact.) Plus teams try to put their players into positions that will maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. What's more, a low-WTTS player probably has other exceptional skills that led them to be drafted to begin with. But I do think it's a very legitimate data point, taken for what it is.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf’s Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/18/24
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/18: News and Notes
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/17: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/16: News and Notes
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/15: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-14, Mock Draft 3.0, Gilmore, Law Rally For Bill 
Potential Patriot: Boston Globe’s Price Talks to Georgia WR McConkey
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/12: News and Notes
Not a First Round Pick? Hoge Doubles Down on Maye
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/11: News and Notes
Back
Top