More Assante musings

[40yrpatsfan]

Obviously our first preference is to sign Assante. We don't need picks and we do need a #1 corner. In gridiron heaven, I pray they can all get together on a new deal for Assante. But back on planet Earth, we should assume he gets traded. So some observations on that:

- I hope the Patriots are initiating and running these talks this time, instead of letting the player influence who our trading partner will be.

- Teams we don't send him to: Indy, San Diego, Denver, Jets, Bills, Dolphins. Don't even take their phone call.

- Assante' worth is a mid-1st rounder in 2007 (i.e., #15-17). Not a high 1st rounder, not a low 1st rounder, not a next year 1st (unless the team's so bad we might get a top-12 pick). He's a top-tier player, but he's not worth the #6 pick in this draft either.

- 2007 1st round best bets: #11 San Fran, #13 Rams, #19 Titans, #20 Giants, #22 Cowboys. For those picks better than #16, we would have to sweeten the pot. For those worse than #16, they would have to sweeten the pot.

- 2008 1st round best bets: any of the bottom-10 teams except Miami: Raiders, Lions, Browns, Bucs, Ariz, Redskins, Vikes, Falcons, Texans.

The 49ers intrigue me the most as a possible partner:

- they have a lot of picks: a high 1st, high 2nd, high 3rd, low 3rd, and three 4th's - so using their 1st rounder on Assante won't be overly painful.

- They're on the rise, with a legit chance to go deep in the playoffs next year - so they may think that an Assante Samuel could get them over the top

- As a sweetener, we could swap our #28 for their high 2nd (#42), or give them a 2008 pick (say a 3rd).

 

[italia44]

Asante or his agent need to say what the offers from other teams are,that way he can prove that the Patriots are lowballing him or not,

If he doesn't this will show that his "other offers",are

just smoke and mirrors.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Asante or his agent need to say what the offers from other teams are,that way he can prove that the Patriots are lowballing him or not,

If he doesn't this will show that his "other offers",are

just smoke and mirrors.

True, but history shows that when things get to the point they're at, a trade is a pretty likely outcome.

There's no question that multiple teams are talking dollars with him, but it's easy to talk dollars until compensation to the Pats comes into the equation. Then those offers disappear fast.

If a trade happens, it'll probably be with a team that has some extra picks. That's why I like SF. Anyone know what their CB situation is?

 

[BelichickFan]

- Teams we don't send him to: Indy, San Diego, Denver, Jets, Bills, Dolphins. Don't even take their phone call.

If we make a good trade, it's OK to trade with a competitor. Like the Bledsoe deal. The Bills ? They aren't that good, I would take their 2008 #1 straight up, it could be a very good pick. Dolphins ? Same.

 

[italia44]

True, but history shows that when things get to the point they're at, a trade is a pretty likely outcome.

There's no question that multiple teams are talking dollars with him, but it's easy to talk dollars until compensation to the Pats comes into the equation. Then those offers disappear fast.

If a trade happens, it'll probably be with a team that has some extra picks. That's why I like SF. Anyone know what their CB situation is?

yes,but,didn't meoin show the offer he got from the Jets?

 

[marcus]

Assante is not going anywhere this year

I think his value has been greatly exaggerated. I doubt a team would be willing to give up a mid first round or any other first round pick for Assante straight up.

He had a great year last year, but his entire body of work is not great.
He has not been to a SINGLE probowl.



I think Assante either:

1) Sits out until game 10
2) Plays under the franchise tag in exchange for PATSA agreeing not to franchise him again
3) Signs a long term deal with Patriots.



Of the trhee most likely is 3

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: Assante is not going anywhere this year

1) Sits out until game 10
2) Plays under the franchise tag in exchange for PATSA agreeing not to franchise him again
3) Signs a long term deal with Patriots.

#1 isn't going to happen, it costs him about $5M and gains him nothing (other than not getting hurt).

#2s ship sailed when the Patriots refused to agree to not Franchise Branch.

#3 could happen. Or he'll play the year for the paltry $8M. Poor guy.

 

[Pat_the_Patriot]

We discussed Asante a bunch at our regular poker game last night... a bunch of Pats fans, a pretty hard core Steelers fan, a VERY hard core fan of the Eagles, and die-hard Bills fan.... and the Bills fan had a good question:

Does Asante really want to hold out? Can he afford it?

How many corner backs hit FA next year? I truly don't know the answer, does anyone else know the answer?

This was a wrinkle that I hadn't thought of.... and it could throw an interesting angle on this whole "thing".

 

[Miguel]

Re: More Asante musings

IMO, a better course of action for Samuel would have been to ask the Patriots if he was in their long-term plans AND if they felt that he was an elite CB. If the Patriots thought that he was and wanted to keep Samuel long-term, then a deal should be rather easy to reach. If he was not, he would offer to sign the franchise tender immediately and take part in all offseason activities if the franchise tended included a guarantee that he would not be tagged again.

Just my opinion.

 

[stinkypete]

I honestly think the whole thing is smoke and mirrors. Asante is frustrated that he hasn't been paid yet, and he assumes after watching the market set that his value is near that of Clements or Bly. As far as I know, Samuel has not negotiated with any other teams (though he is leagally able to do so under the tag) and so he is guessing what his value would be on an open matket.

I also think that the Pats are intentionally slow moving in negotiations. Clearly the front office questions if Samuel is truely an "elite" CB, and is reluctant to pay elite money. The market has proven that teams are willing to spend elite money on non-elite players in order to fill a need. Knowing this, Belichick/Pioli probably suspect that a team is willing to overcompensate via trade for his services. I think that the front office has been exploring all options with equal attention.

 

[Miguel]

How many corner backs hit FA next year? I truly don't know the answer, does anyone else know the answer?

This was a wrinkle that I hadn't thought of.... and it could throw an interesting angle on this whole "thing".

The only top-flight cornerback that may become an UFA in 2008 AND that I can think of is the Raiders cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha.

In no Particular Order
Player Signed Through
Barber 2010
Bailey 2010
Clements 2014
McAlister 2010
Woodson 2012
Hall 2008
Mathis 2011
Walt Harris 2008
Sheppard 2011

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Obviously our first preference is to sign Assante. We don't need picks and we do need a #1 corner.

I agree with the first part of this statement, my first preference is to re-sign Asante, not just because he a very good CB, but because it also merges some of the business and football aspects and will be a morale boost for the team to see another one of their own get a good deal and remain a Pat.

As for the second sentence, Hobbs started the year at LCB, from my efforts to edumacate myself, that is most often the teams #1 CB because it puts him on the side of most QBs throwing arm. Hobbs eventually wound up on the other side after coming back with his cast, he certainly did alright in San Diego and Indianapolis. Outside of the fact that there will be a #1 CB if only by position, I suspect Ellis will come back healthy and ready to fight for the lead role in the secondary's drama. Without Asante to compete with, poor Chad Scott may wind up being the target of quite a number of balls.

 

[spacecrime]

Re: Assante is not going anywhere this year

I think his value has been greatly exaggerated. I doubt a team would be willing to give up a mid first round or any other first round pick for Assante straight up.

So you think Deion Branch has more value than Asante Samuel? Interesting, and possible, I guess, but I think Asante is worth more than Deion, to us and to other teams.

That's why I am discouraged about the talks. I believe the Pats offered Asante a better deal than Deion because he is worht more. If that isn't good enough, then I doubt we will strike a deal.

Of course, I have no idea what the pats offered or what other teams are offering Asante, but I'm sure Asante's agent has let the pariots know who has been offering what regarding salary and signing bonus.

One thing is known: So far no one has signed Asante to a deal for the Pats to match or not match.

 

[spacecrime]

Re: Assante is not going anywhere this year

#2s ship sailed when the Patriots refused to agree to not Franchise Branch.

Not true. You are talking two completely different things.

Branch wanted not to be franchised when he became a fre agent. Samuel already is.

The Pats would never agree to not franchise a player. That takes away all leverage and makes a trade impossible.

The Pats WILL agree to not franchise a player a SECOND time in order to get him to attend training camp. This is standard practice for most teams (a franchised player who has not signed the tag does not have to attend training camp or play in preseason games) and the Pats did it with AV.

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: Assante is not going anywhere this year

Not true. You are talking two completely different things.

Branch wanted not to be franchised when he became a fre agent. Samuel already is.

The Pats would never agree to not franchise a player. That takes away all leverage and makes a trade impossible.

The Pats WILL agree to not franchise a player a SECOND time in order to get him to attend training camp. This is standard practice for most teams (a franchised player who has not signed the tag does not have to attend training camp or play in preseason games) and the Pats did it with AV.

True about Vinatieri but I still don't see them agreeing to it. Agreeing not to Franchise him a second time still removes leverage. Maybe they would agree if they thought a second Franchise would be too expensive - but I don't see them giving that away for nothing. There's a difference in trade value for a Franchised young CB vs. a kicker.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Assante is not going anywhere this year

Branch had a year left on his contract, which added value.

So you think Deion Branch has more value than Asante Samuel? Interesting, and possible, I guess, but I think Asante is worth more than Deion, to us and to other teams.

That's why I am discouraged about the talks. I believe the Pats offered Asante a better deal than Deion because he is worht more. If that isn't good enough, then I doubt we will strike a deal.

Of course, I have no idea what the pats offered or what other teams are offering Asante, but I'm sure Asante's agent has let the pariots know who has been offering what regarding salary and signing bonus.

One thing is known: So far no one has signed Asante to a deal for the Pats to match or not match.

 

[DarrylS]

Have to wonder if Assante's agent already shopped his services and there is an offer on the table somewhere, TAMPERING??

Bottom line is he should stay here, getting 7.79 M and plays another year for his contract. Sitting out will not serve him well as he will be viewed as a malcontent, and to many of us one good year does not equal a great cornerback.

 

[Miguel]

Have to wonder if Assante's agent already shopped his services and there is an offer on the table somewhere, TAMPERING?? .

It is not tampering since Samuel is free to negotiate with every team in the NFL.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Assante is not going anywhere this year

Not true. You are talking two completely different things.

Branch wanted not to be franchised when he became a fre agent. Samuel already is.

The Pats would never agree to not franchise a player. That takes away all leverage and makes a trade impossible.

The Pats WILL agree to not franchise a player a SECOND time in order to get him to attend training camp. This is standard practice for most teams (a franchised player who has not signed the tag does not have to attend training camp or play in preseason games) and the Pats did it with AV.

That's not really true, just media and message board conjecture that a verbal "promise" was made. Adam disputed that when he said he would have played in 2006 had they tagged him. He also never played under the tag before 2005 - he was only tagged for a week in 2002 before they got a three year deal done.

The only agreement that counts is one placed in writing. We didn't do a seperate one year deal with Adam, he simply signed his tag and came to camp (although I believe he also attended the off season program as usual that year as a show of good faith even without a contract per se as some players will).

And players who are tagged the second time are few and far between and usually traded because of the 120% premium (although I recall reading about a player who was tagged repeatedly and just played, but I can't recall off the top who he was). I believe the JETS assured John Abraham they would not tag him again and would continue working on a LT deal in 2005 to get him to sign his tag and come to camp. Then they tagged him again in 2006 (albeit after changing GM's and HC's) and he immediately said he would not play. But that was fine with NY because they couldn't afford the tag anyway and were strictly tagging him to trade him.

Alexander demanded and got a one year deal in place of his tag, which was then rescinded, to report. That one year deal paid him the franchise salary guaranteed and stipulated he could not be retagged a second time. It also according the the player created the good will that led to him signing a LT deal with Seattle just after the FA period opened last year, something few thought would happen after the way he balked at the tag being used on him in 2005. So that would be the gain, good will, but that is only of value if you actually intend to get a deal done as Seattle apparently did.

I think any player would insist based on precedent going forward that any non tag stipulation be put in writing in a seperate 1 year deal or they likely wouldn't have a leg to stand on when the team failed to live up to a promise to either get a deal done or let them go as a FA the following year with no compensation beyond a comp pick.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Assante is not going anywhere this year

Branch had a year left on his contract, which added value.

Not really since the reason he was traded was a refusal to honor that year and the team he went to was going to have to tear up that contract to satisfy his demand for a new deal, which they did.

Each team values players a little differently. But by and large a 26 year old CB with 10 INTS (even playing behind a fairly elite front 7 and coached by BB) probably trumps a 27 year old WR who never cracked a thousand yards although he was named a SBMVP (with Tom Brady throwing him the rock for all 4 years of his career).