Any Chance Pats trade Asante Samuel on draft day?

[Oswlek]

Re: Any Chance Pats trade Assunte Samuel on darft day?

One word: Why?

 

[patriotsdynasty12189]

Re: Any Chance Pats trade Assunte Samuel on darft day?

I want Asante to prove that he can be consistant. Remember this WAS his contract year and had $$$ going through his head. You have to remember the Asante that would get toasted for the first 3 years. I want to see an encore THAN work something out with him.

 

[frankiesfly]

Re: Any Chance Pats trade Assunte Samuel on darft day?

absolutley none. The pats are counting on him as the future of our CB position. Every team needs a player like Asante so there is absolutley no possible chance at all.

 

[danny88]

Re: Any Chance Pats trade Assunte Samuel on darft day?

absolutley none. The pats are counting on him as the future of our wr position. Every team needs a player like Deion so there is absolutley no possible chance at all.

fixed..................

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Any Chance Pats trade Assunte Samuel on darft day?

fixed..................

WTF? The situations are in no way comparable. A top-5 CB is a MUCH more valuable commodity than an average WR; I don't know why you'd need anyone to tell you that.

 

[danny88]

Re: Any Chance Pats trade Assunte Samuel on darft day?

WTF? The situations are in no way comparable. A top-5 CB is a MUCH more valuable commodity than an average WR; I don't know why you'd need anyone to tell you that.

It was a joke. Now calm down before someone at your job asks you why there is a huge vein bulging out of your neck.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Any Chance Pats trade Assunte Samuel on darft day?

It was a joke. Now calm down before someone at your job asks you why there is a huge vein bulging out of your neck.

I'm not at work, thanks.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Re: Any Chance Pats trade Assunte Samuel on darft day?

There is no cap advantage in holding off on a deal with a franchise tagged player. Any deal would certainly lower his 2007 cap hit to 1/5th or 1/6th of his bonus (amortization) plus salary (which on the heels on a signing bonus is generally in the minimum range), which would likely cut his present cap hit at least in half.

I know some surmize there is some potential great strategic significance to withholding announcing a deal, but in reality other than perhaps causing a team or two just ahead of or behind us to maneuver if they believe we are targeting a specific player as a result, teams draft who they draft based either on their own need or assessment of best available talent.

Not to mention postponing an announcement would also postpone the player's receipt of his signing bonus, and given it would be in the multi millions I just don't see a player or agent passing up investment and interest income on that signing bonus to play draft decoy. A deal isn't official until it's submitted to the league and they sign off on it, and league sources can't keep their mouths shut when in posession of significant information like a deal having been submitted.

Samuel's agent basically said that the tag was not a problem for them so long as both sides continued to view it as a means to an end - that end being a long term deal. Only the team knows at this point how far they are prepared to go to that end. And only Asante and his agent know what their bottom line demands are and whether or not there is anyone else interested in paying him what he wants in a long term deal.

If they cannot get a deal done then it will eventually become a problem/issue, because after July 15th they cannot do a long term deal regardless of whether the team or player might still want to. At that point the tag represents what the agent said would be a problem for them - playing under a one year deal with no possibility of a long term deal.

I just don't see Belioli heading into a season with that kind of potential for disruption and disharmony on the heels of last season's debaucle with Branch. Not with all the positives they have created already this off season with the FA signings of Thomas, Welker and Stallworth. And since trading him would necessitate having someone else in mind to replace him, I can't see it happening except before the draft. After the draft it would almost have to involve a player in place of or in addition to picks. There just isn't anyone on the roster you can honestly pencil in to replace a starting CB. Gay has yet to prove he can stay on the field or be anything more than a one year wonder three years removed. And Wilson hasn't played the position since college and has struggled with injuries as it is.

I still don't think Branch and Samuel are comparable.

Branch was playing for $1 million - Samuel for nearly $8 million. It was worth it to Branch to sit out - it would not be worth it to Samuel to hold out.

There's currently no cap pressure on the Patriots to take the Franchise tag off - heck, it wouldn't surprise me if they still could afford to tag him next year.

I guess it all comes down to whether the Patriots feel that their defensive scheme requires a marquee CB. I think they do need very good CBs - but I don't think they need marquee players at Dre Bly pricetags.

Given that, I think they keep the tag on Samuel and let the year play out, with the expectation that Samuel will not sit nor cry poverty for getting a paltry $8 million this season.

Meanwhile, they buy themselves a year to see what they have in Gay

 

[VJCPatriot]

Re: Any Chance Pats trade Assunte Samuel on darft day?

Given that, I think they keep the tag on Samuel and let the year play out, with the expectation that Samuel will not sit nor cry poverty for getting a paltry $8 million this season.

Show me a link where Samuel says he is content to play for the franchise tag amount. I think Samuel expects a long term deal. Playing for 7.7M for one season is a lot of money to you or me, but it is NOT the security of a longterm deal and big bonus money that a pro athlete and his agent want. Big world of difference imo.

I don't see the problem with paying a YOUNG CB like Samuel with Dre Bly money. They have the cap space.

 

[italia44]

Re: Any Chance Pats trade Assunte Samuel on darft day?

One word: Why?

two words:signing bonus

There's a good chance Asante will get traded on Draft day or before july 16.

The reason is that every year he plays under the Franchise tag is a LOST year of signing bonus $$.

Despite the fact he will receive 7.8M in Franchise tender,in his mind,he will not be getting the 5M-7M in upfront bonus money he and his agent desires.A Franchised player knows that another team will always pay more in upfront money than your existing team....it's the nature of the business.

I believe Asante wants a signing bonus between what Dre Bly received and what Clements got from SF.This is way over what we gave to AD,who came from another team.To gives this to a player,already on your roster,would cause serious problems with the other veterans on the Patriots.

Trust me,on draft day,if the Pats draft a CB in the First round,and other teams didn't get one of the top CB's........this is going to really heat up.

Faced with being tagged again next year,which would be another year w/o the signing bonus,Asante WILL hold out for 10 games this season.

WHY?.......because it works!
The risk of injury is too great to play under the Franchise tag.

If Asante doesn't sign by Draft day,this is going to get ugly.....because,like Ty Law,Asante will go to whomever pays the most bonus $$.......and there will be a few teams,who didn't spend during the FA period,looking to make a big splash for their fan base.

BB/SP want to resolve this,either by signing or trading him.....they don't want a repeat of the Branch fiasco,to do this again would have serious ramifications on team morale,for a second season,IMHO.

 

[pats1]

Re: Any Chance Pats trade Assunte Samuel on darft day?

two words:signing bonus

There's a good chance Asante will get traded on Draft day or before july 16.

The reason is that every year he plays under the Franchise tag is a LOST year of signing bonus $$.

Not exactly. There's no way he gets $8M in base salary with a new deal. When all is said and done, new deal or not, he'll be getting somewhere around $8M in 2007. There's no difference.

Despite the fact he will receive 7.8M in Franchise tender,in his mind,he will not be getting the 5M-7M in upfront bonus money he and his agent desires.

There's really no difference. The franchise tender, once signed, is fully guaranteed.

A Franchised player knows that another team will always pay more in upfront money than your existing team....it's the nature of the business.

That's always going to be true with the franchise tag, considering the new team is going to give him a multi-year deal that in all likelihood will contain more signing bonus money (that he receives after signing) than the tag.

I believe Asante wants a signing bonus between what Dre Bly received and what Clements got from SF.This is way over what we gave to AD,who came from another team.To gives this to a player,already on your roster,would cause serious problems with the other veterans on the Patriots.

Trust me,on draft day,if the Pats draft a CB in the First round,and other teams didn't get one of the top CB's........this is going to really heat up.

Faced with being tagged again next year,which would be another year w/o the signing bonus,Asante WILL hold out for 10 games this season.

WHY?.......because it works!
The risk of injury is too great to play under the Franchise tag.

You're assuming way to much here. The moment he signs that franchise tender, he gets $8M in his pocket. And he gets to stay put and play for a contender. If he gets tagged again next year, fine! Another $8-10M in his pocket.

If Asante doesn't sign by Draft day,this is going to get ugly.....because,like Ty Law,Asante will go to whomever pays the most bonus $$.......and there will be a few teams,who didn't spend during the FA period,looking to make a big splash for their fan base.

BB/SP want to resolve this,either by signing or trading him.....they don't want a repeat of the Branch fiasco,to do this again would have serious ramifications on team morale,for a second season,IMHO.

I don't think draft day is the end-all-be-all for Samuel. The Pats are most likely going to draft a DB early no matter what. If it begins to look like a long-term deal won't be worked out, that's when they can consider trading him for another year of two first round picks, or have him take the $8M in tender money.

 

[Jimke]

If the Pats were planning to trade Asante Samuel, his replacement

would already be on the roster. Gay, Scott, Spahn, or Williams can't

adequately replace Asante and neither can Wilson because he has played

safety for the past four years. Any cornerback the Pats draft will be for

the 2008 season. I think we have to wait until the July 15 deadline is much

closer before we see him re-signed.

 

[Miguel]

If Samuel is going to be traded near the draft and I do not not that he will be I think that it is far more likely that it will be on the night before the draft than the actual day of the draft.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

In my opinion, Samuel is better than any corner in this draft as of right now. Therefore, I would'nt trade Samuel just to move up and grab Leon Hall or any other cornerback. Samuel is more valuable to the Pats then just another pick in the first round. If the Pats do indeed trade Samuel for a first round pick, which is highly unlikely, moving up for Calvin Johson would be a strong possibility as well as Joe Thomas. I know it sounds ridicuous with the WR free agent signings the Pats have made, but Calvin Johnson is a CAN'T MISS prospect. With that said, the Pats will have Samuel and their two first round picks come April 28-29.

 

[italia44]

Re: Any Chance Pats trade Assunte Samuel on darft day?

Not exactly. There's no way he gets $8M in base salary with a new deal. When all is said and done, new deal or not, he'll be getting somewhere around $8M in 2007. There's no difference.

Of course there's a difference......a huge one:
Again.it's the Signing Bonus...A Franchised player
gets 7.8M.......after a career-ending injury,he gets 7.8M

A Franchised player signs a new contract with 18-25M in upfront bonus money.He suffers a career-ending injury and receives.........let me count......18-25M in up-front bonus money+ his year one salary.
Can't you see this?




There's really no difference. The franchise tender, once signed, is fully guaranteed.



That's always going to be true with the franchise tag, considering the new team is going to give him a multi-year deal that in all likelihood will contain more signing bonus money (that he receives after signing) than the tag.
Read the post again....I'm not comparing the Franchise money to the bonus money.
I'm comparing what Asante's team(Patriots) would give him in upfront bonus money versus what ANOTHER TEAM,would give him upfront.
To believe another team,desperate for a top-flight CB would not give Asante more....is naive.


You're assuming way to much here. The moment he signs that franchise tender, he gets $8M in his pocket. And he gets to stay put and play for a contender. If he gets tagged again next year, fine! Another $8-10M in his pocket.

of course,I'm assuming....that's the idea of the thread.You act like every franchise player is thrilled about the guaranteed money they will receive,.......news flash,historically,they're not.
(see Adam V).



I don't think draft day is the end-all-be-all for Samuel. The Pats are most likely going to draft a DB early no matter what. If it begins to look like a long-term deal won't be worked out, that's when they can consider trading him for another year of two first round picks, or have him take the $8M in tender money.

I agree the Pats will draft a CB and it will have little to do with the Asante situation.
I'm simply stating that there will be OTHER teams,who don't get there CB in the Draft,will then
start looking towards dealing for Asante.

Patriots,not interested?Probably,not.However,another team offering a mega-bonus to Asante will seriously change the DYNAMICS of what Asante and his agent will accept from the Patriots.

get it?.......It's the threat that this may become untenable for the Pats is the reason I believe that this will heat up on Draft day.
It just isn't realistic to believe otherwise.

 

[Oswlek]

Re: Any Chance Pats trade Assunte Samuel on darft day?

two words:signing bonus

There's a good chance Asante will get traded on Draft day or before july 16.

The reason is that every year he plays under the Franchise tag is a LOST year of signing bonus $$.

Despite the fact he will receive 7.8M in Franchise tender,in his mind,he will not be getting the 5M-7M in upfront bonus money he and his agent desires.A Franchised player knows that another team will always pay more in upfront money than your existing team....it's the nature of the business.

I believe Asante wants a signing bonus between what Dre Bly received and what Clements got from SF.This is way over what we gave to AD,who came from another team.To gives this to a player,already on your roster,would cause serious problems with the other veterans on the Patriots.

Trust me,on draft day,if the Pats draft a CB in the First round,and other teams didn't get one of the top CB's........this is going to really heat up.

Faced with being tagged again next year,which would be another year w/o the signing bonus,Asante WILL hold out for 10 games this season.

WHY?.......because it works!
The risk of injury is too great to play under the Franchise tag.

If Asante doesn't sign by Draft day,this is going to get ugly.....because,like Ty Law,Asante will go to whomever pays the most bonus $$.......and there will be a few teams,who didn't spend during the FA period,looking to make a big splash for their fan base.

BB/SP want to resolve this,either by signing or trading him.....they don't want a repeat of the Branch fiasco,to do this again would have serious ramifications on team morale,for a second season,IMHO.

I understand all of this, but you have not explained why NE would not just sign him. Does anyone really want to use Samuel and a first to get an unproven rookie, and expensive one at that?

It doesn't make sense for NE to do that at all.

I think that many fans are viewing the Samuel situation with a lense that has been clouded by Branch.

 

[Oswlek]

Re: Any Chance Pats trade Assunte Samuel on darft day?

I agree the Pats will draft a CB and it will have little to do with the Asante situation.
I'm simply stating that there will be OTHER teams,who don't get there CB in the Draft,will then
start looking towards dealing for Asante.

Patriots,not interested?Probably,not.However,another team offering a mega-bonus to Asante will seriously change the DYNAMICS of what Asante and his agent will accept from the Patriots.

get it?.......It's the threat that this may become untenable for the Pats is the reason I believe that this will heat up on Draft day.
It just isn't realistic to believe otherwise.

This statement baffles me. Sure other teams might get all hot and bothered with the possibility of adding Samuel. But why is it unrealistic to think that Samuel is solidly in NE's plans and they will go into and through the draft without giving serious consideration to trading him?

Branch's situation was a little different. He was already upset with NE for tacking the 5th year onto the rookie deal. In addition to that, his weekly forfeiture was next to nothing. Branch also knew that NE's WR corps was dependent on him, giving him additional leverage.

I don't think the situations are as similar as some make them out to be.

 

[italia44]

Re: Any Chance Pats trade Assunte Samuel on darft day?

I understand all of this, but you have not explained why NE would not just sign him. Does anyone really want to use Samuel and a first to get an unproven rookie, and expensive one at that?

It doesn't make sense for NE to do that at all.

I think that many fans are viewing the Samuel situation with a lense that has been clouded by Branch.

I WANT the Pats to sign him....soon,before the draft.After the draft,the scenarios i detailed will come into play.
pats1 contention was that with the 7.8M tender,it's
all going to be fine for one year.....it's not.

Sign him or think about trading him.....otherwise we're looking at 5 months of Asante and his agent
hearing "whispers" about mega-signing bonuses.
Looking forward to Mangini driving up his price?

 

[italia44]

per Adam Schecter NFL Network:

Asante Samuel unhappy,will seek trade or holdout.

any comment,pats1?

 

[pats1]

per Adam Schecter NFL Network:

Asante Samuel unhappy,will seek trade or holdout.

any comment,pats1?

Unexpected, I must say.