The Senior Bowl-

[mcsully]

If, by some circumstance Willis does fall to 24, he'd be very tempting bait for some team to trade up. I don't see Willis as a first round value for the Pats with his measurables and the limited time I've seen him on tape. If the rest of his tape was the same I'd expect the Pats to pass on him for a player more easily projected into the Pats system - Staley and Harrell both come to mind.

I guess thats why your not a scout

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Here's the problem you've seen limited footage. Just the Senior Bowl, right? Recorded with TIVO? Thats not tape.

Here's the problem, I'm just a fan, not an NFL or NCAA coach with all that access. I'm sure you've been to every one of his games, sat in the press box, and have coach's tape to crunch in your spare time. We've been over this already, I've explained what material I have access to, you post youtube clips in support of your favorites, hardly indepth but it's better then fondling your dogs ears for the data. If your resources are better you still have been unable to articulate the information they provide sufficiently well to convince me, not to mention one or two other folks who post here who have similar opinions from their analysis.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I guess thats why your not a scout

See, you thought you had to wait to Thanksgiving to be thankful.

 

[unoriginal]

Hey guys, while microwaving a hot dog I got transported back to 2006 and lost most of my recent memory. The NFL Draft is coming up. My question is, do the Pats trade up for A.J. Hawk or Bobby Carpenter, or do they stay put and take Manny Lawson?

No question, there are a lot of great athletes, I mean linebackers, to take in the first round. I'm pulling for Lawson because he's fast and a real playmaker!

 

[Clonamery]

Hey guys, while microwaving a hot dog I got transported back to 2006 and lost most of my recent memory. The NFL Draft is coming up. My question is, do the Pats trade up for A.J. Hawk or Bobby Carpenter, or do they stay put and take Manny Lawson?

No question, there are a lot of great athletes, I mean linebackers, to take in the first round. I'm pulling for Lawson because he's fast and a real playmaker!

Dang, if we'd only had 2 1st rounders last year....

 

[PushnPencils]

Hey guys, while microwaving a hot dog I got transported back to 2006 and lost most of my recent memory. The NFL Draft is coming up. My question is, do the Pats trade up for A.J. Hawk or Bobby Carpenter, or do they stay put and take Manny Lawson?

No question, there are a lot of great athletes, I mean linebackers, to take in the first round. I'm pulling for Lawson because he's fast and a real playmaker!

Actually, I wouldn't have been too disageeable in having AJ Hawk in a Pat's uni.

OH WAIT!, lemme guess.....AJ Hawk would've been a poor fit because he's another one of those useless sideline to sideline guys and most importantly, unlike Bruschi, he parts his hair to the left. That will never do.

 

[sebman2112]

Here's the problem, I'm just a fan, not an NFL or NCAA coach with all that access. I'm sure you've been to every one of his games, sat in the press box, and have coach's tape to crunch in your spare time. We've been over this already, I've explained what material I have access to, you post youtube clips in support of your favorites, hardly indepth but it's better then fondling your dogs ears for the data. If your resources are better you still have been unable to articulate the information they provide sufficiently well to convince me, not to mention one or two other folks who post here who have similar opinions from their analysis.

No, the point was you shouldn't call it tape. When people hear others talk about tape they are thinking "game film", and not automatically thinking TIVO'd NFL Network coverage. I'm not a coach, just a player rehabbing at home using my weight room to workout, and get back to playing shape. I have a lot of free time on my hands right now because that's my only focus, and I'm done with school. You don't have to be a coach to get game film. I post youtube video highlights just to show people some of the things that interest me about a certain player, but that's not the basis for my analysis. Those are just little videos that can sometimes showcase a players talents. As you mentioned most fans who arent currently involved in the sport don't have access to game film, and that is why youtube videos can be helpful to them. Fans like yourself can actually get ahold of some game film if they want. If there is a certain draft prospect you like contact the athletic department at his university, and they might hook you up. Also, contact the player himself, that is not all that unusual actually, and he'll have easier access to the game film. I'm not some kind of expert but seeing as I currently play the game and have access to film, I would like to think I know a little bit. I do have to ask the athletic department to furnish game footage, and I have to wait for it to come, so I can only really talk about the guys I already have film on. I asked for film on Patrick Willis and other MLB's, because that's my position. I was hoping to pick something up from his game.

 

[dryheat44]

Actually, I wouldn't have been too disageeable in having AJ Hawk in a Pat's uni.

OH WAIT!, lemme guess.....AJ Hawk would've been a poor fit because he's another one of those useless sideline to sideline guys and most importantly, unlike Bruschi, he parts his hair to the left. That will never do.

Ummm AJ Hawk was my wet dream first round pick last year, and some other guys (and possibly chicks) on here as well. If the Patriots held #1 overall I'd have been advocating Hawk.

Patrick Willis, sir, is no AJ Hawk.

 

[PushnPencils]

Re: The Senior Bowl-Youtube Highlights

I hope this ain't a repost.

These are some snippets from the senior bowl.

I'm not going to argue Willis's physical and football related tools. But when I watch the video, I see Brian Urlacher with pigmentation.

Urlacher plays in the 4-3, but I would assume we'd all be interested in seeing if Belichick could find a spot for him on our team. You can't teach speed or athleticism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV4BX9upvVY

 

[dryheat44]

Case in point. The finest strong side middle linebacker in Patriot history.

Coming out of college he was a 4-3 defensive end/OLB tweener with 50+ career sacks to his credit. A dedicated pass rusher. Would you have ever drafted this guy as one of your 3-4 MLB's?

Boy, you sound like the talking heads out there now...

1) Bruschi was a DT in college, who occasionally moved out to DE, he was not a DE/OLB tweener, regardless of what some too-smart-for-their-own-good gurus say. He was drafted to be a DE project.

2) Bruschi was a third round pick.

3) The Patriots had plenty of room on the roster to carry ST guys and wait for them to develop back then.

4) The Patriots played a 4-3 then.

I don't want to argue against your point, which seems to be that there are exceptions to every rule. But the drafting of Bruschi and the prospective drafting of Willis are hardly similar situations.

 

[dryheat44]

Re: The Senior Bowl-Youtube Highlights

I hope this ain't a repost.

These are some snippets from the senior bowl.

I'm not going to argue Willis's physical and football related tools. But when I watch the video, I see Brian Urlacher with pigmentation.

Urlacher plays in the 4-3, but I would assume we'd all be interested in seeing if Belichick could find a spot for him on our team. You can't teach speed or athleticism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV4BX9upvVY

Actually, there was a rumor two years ago which had the Patriots trading for Urlacher, and I was one of the few against it. You can't teach speed or athleticism, which as a former DB he has in spades. You can't teach his toughness. But put him in a 3-4 and make him take on guards head on for 60 minutes and I don't think he'd be nearly as effective as he is shooting gaps, scraping holes, and chasing down ballcarriers like he does in the 4-3. Like you say, the Patriots would have to be very creative in how they use him. In any case, he is the exception. It's hard to draft a guy in the first round, teach him a new position, and expect him to be an exception.

 

[PushnPencils]

Ummm AJ Hawk was my wet dream first round pick last year, and some other guys (and possibly chicks) on here as well. If the Patriots held #1 overall I'd have been advocating Hawk.

Patrick Willis, sir, is no AJ Hawk.

But in advocating Willis, I'm not saying the guy would be Hawk, Bruschi or the the second coming of **** Butkus.

I'm just saying the guy's got the BEST skill set of any LB available. Also this isn't a guy who had like 75 tackes from the MLB position in college and scouts got enamoured with his speed and athleticism. He produced on a HUGE scale. The numbers don't lie.

Not speaking to you directly but alot of folks on here tend to travel the path less taken when evaluating draft choices. Why look for a diamond in the rough, when a cut and mounted one is on full display and potentially accessible.

 

[PushnPencils]

Re: The Senior Bowl-Youtube Highlights

Actually, there was a rumor two years ago which had the Patriots trading for Urlacher, and I was one of the few against it. You can't teach speed or athleticism, which as a former DB he has in spades. You can't teach his toughness. But put him in a 3-4 and make him take on guards head on for 60 minutes and I don't think he'd be nearly as effective as he is shooting gaps, scraping holes, and chasing down ballcarriers like he does in the 4-3. Like you say, the Patriots would have to be very creative in how they use him. In any case, he is the exception. It's hard to draft a guy in the first round, teach him a new position, and expect him to be an exception.

I have a great example for you. Ben Watson. How many balls did that dude catch at Georgia?

Let's face it. The Pat's took him based on potential only in the first round. He was a physical freak. We didn't know how good a pass catcher he could be because the body of work wasn't there.

But the the guy was 6-3 250 and could run a 4.4 - 40.

They molded him into their system and made him what he is.

 

[sebman2112]

But in advocating Willis, I'm not saying the guy would be Hawk, Bruschi or the the second coming of **** Butkus.

I'm just saying the guy's got the BEST skill set of any LB available. Also this isn't a guy who had like 75 tackes from the MLB position in college and scouts got enamoured with his speed and athleticism. He produced on a HUGE scale. The numbers don't lie.

Not speaking to you directly but alot of folks on here tend to travel the path less taken when evaluating draft choices. Why look for a diamond in the rough, when a cut and mounted one is on full display and potentially accessible.

I think a lot of people talk about 4th-5th-6th-7th-FA project Backers because that is what BB has done in the past. Also, you can find some good players in the later rounds. I wouldn't try to pin the Patriots into some type of mold where they will not take any LB early, though. Some said "NE will not take a RB in the first", then NE selects Maroney. Some said "they will not draft another TE after taking Graham", then they select Watson. You can't pin them down to any kind of preconceived notions, they'll pick who ever is the BPA on their board, especially if he can help the team more than the next guy. It almost seems like when people are saying they wont pick someone at a certain positon, that's when you should expect them to.....So they'll probably draft Robert Meachem

 

[dryheat44]

Re: The Senior Bowl-Youtube Highlights

I have a great example for you. Ben Watson. How many balls did that dude catch at Georgia?

Let's face it. The Pat's took him based on potential only in the first round. He was a physical freak. We didn't know how good a pass catcher he could be because the body of work wasn't there.

But the the guy was 6-3 250 and could run a 4.4 - 40.

They molded him into their system and made him what he is.

That's a good example. BB has admitted several times that he often drafts those large, athletic tight ends and defensive linemen because they're rare freaks of nature.

 

[dryheat44]

I It almost seems like when people are saying they wont pick someone at a certain positon, that's when you should expect them to.....So they'll probably draft Robert Meachem

Boy, Meacham would make me happy. Unfortunately, we could get Greg Olsen instead.

 

[PushnPencils]

Re: The Senior Bowl-Youtube Highlights

That's a good example. BB has admitted several times that he often drafts those large, athletic tight ends and defensive linemen because they're rare freaks of nature.

Although, the "physical freak" comment was not uttered by BB nor Pioli, you don't think that played a huge part in what made him an attractive pick?

His intelligence was another component, but I seriously doubt they were captivated by all-around tight end skills.

 

[PushnPencils]

Boy, Meacham would make me happy. Unfortunately, we could get Greg Olsen instead.

Truth be told, I'm already preparing myself emotionally for a first round consisting of Staley and Leonard.

I'll have a hard time sleeping after after that.

 

[dryheat44]

Re: The Senior Bowl-Youtube Highlights

Although, the "physical freak" comment was not uttered by BB nor Pioli, you don't think that played a huge part in what made him an attractive pick?

His intelligence was another component, but I seriously doubt they were captivated by all-around tight end skills.

I do. I'm in agreement with you on this point. His freakishness combined with his performance in interviews no doubt sold them. Remember they also insisted on the sixth year on the contract, which let to a holdout and ultimately Watson's agent firing himself. The Patriots seemed to think that maybe he needed some polishing done. All in all, they have to be pleased with that pick.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

You should have specified a discussion on semantics, it would have clarified your point. I have been posting here for a couple years and most regulars know what recorded media I have at my disposal, specifying in each post that I am watching a digitally recorded broadcast would get tedious. As you yourself learned, you have only to ask what I'm using.

You imply coach's tape on Willis, did it cost you anything, would you be willing to post a play-by-play analysis of one game that highlights the skill set which you believe allows Willis to transition to a Patriots' 3-4 ILB? Speaking of which, just what are the characteristics which make a LB a good fit for New England - your version? Are you able to produce a YouTube that shows Willis stacking and shedding blocks? I already know he can tackle. I know he has speed. I know what he weighs and how tall he is. I don't know that he can take on OL consistently and hold up. Perhaps your tape can inform me.

No, the point was you shouldn't call it tape. When people hear others talk about tape they are thinking "game film", and not automatically thinking TIVO'd NFL Network coverage. I'm not a coach, just a player rehabbing at home using my weight room to workout, and get back to playing shape. I have a lot of free time on my hands right now because that's my only focus, and I'm done with school. You don't have to be a coach to get game film. I post youtube video highlights just to show people some of the things that interest me about a certain player, but that's not the basis for my analysis. Those are just little videos that can sometimes showcase a players talents. As you mentioned most fans who arent currently involved in the sport don't have access to game film, and that is why youtube videos can be helpful to them. Fans like yourself can actually get ahold of some game film if they want. If there is a certain draft prospect you like contact the athletic department at his university, and they might hook you up. Also, contact the player himself, that is not all that unusual actually, and he'll have easier access to the game film. I'm not some kind of expert but seeing as I currently play the game and have access to film, I would like to think I know a little bit. I do have to ask the athletic department to furnish game footage, and I have to wait for it to come, so I can only really talk about the guys I already have film on. I asked for film on Patrick Willis and other MLB's, because that's my position. I was hoping to pick something up from his game.