Reason Asante isn't signed yet

[jeffd]

Everything I've read, seen and heard says that the both parties feel the long term deal is nearly a done deal. Could the Pats be holding out for a possible draft day trade. If so, what would you accept for him. I don't think I'd do it unless it involved a top 10 pick or a first this year and next.

 

[SeanBruschi54]

Everything I've read, seen and heard says that the both parties feel the long term deal is nearly a done deal. Could the Pats be holding out for a possible draft day trade. If so, what would you accept for him. I don't think I'd do it unless it involved a top 10 pick or a first this year and next.

Wait until July 15th.

The first day the Patriots can sign him to a long term deal without losing the franchise tag.

 

[Pats726]

Everything I've read, seen and heard says that the both parties feel the long term deal is nearly a done deal. Could the Pats be holding out for a possible draft day trade. If so, what would you accept for him. I don't think I'd do it unless it involved a top 10 pick or a first this year and next.

I just think it is taking time..NOT a big deal..they know what they are doing...If you remember the last time there was a franchise and trade it was Tebucky..and TBuck basically demanded a large amount...so the trade was made quickly after the franchising..so they had it all lined up. NOT the same here. I DO think a deal will be done..takes time..

 

[JoeSixPat]

Well, since Branch's longterm contract was also supposedly close as well, such a report doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy.

But in terms of a trade there's always a risk, even with a top 10 pick, that a rookie just doesn't pan out.

Comparing the salary of a top ten pick to Asante's long term contract probably winds up being cheaper for the rookie - as long as the rookie plays at a veteran level (i.e. Richard Seymour's rookie contract)

Then consider that our system, I believe, benefits Samuel and his value to other teams might not be as high as it is for us.

Then consider the possibility of being without a CB of Samuel's caliber next season, or longer term.

I'd prefer to keep Samuel evven just for one more season tagged in the worst case scenario given the team we have put together now, rather than get a top 10 rookie.

 

[NE39]

Wait until July 15th.

The first day the Patriots can sign him to a long term deal without losing the franchise tag.

I think it is the other way around. They have until July 15 to sign him, or he has to play for one year.

Per the CBA term sheet:

FP signed to multi-year contract before 7/15 results in the loss of designation for only one year; any contract signed after that date through the end of the regular season can be only for one year.

He will sign an extension by July 15 or he will be on the 1-Year deal.

 

[Pats726]

I think it is the other way around. They have until July 15 to sign him, or he has to play for one year.

Per the CBA term sheet:



He will sign an extension by July 15 or he will be on the 1-Year deal.

So confused a bit here...If signed before 7/15 this would be for a long term..and after that date..any NEW contract would be for a year only...so thusly after the season he would AGAIN be a free agent. The losing of the franchise tag for a year..next year?? Or basically this year..so it could not be used on another player...so after this year if no deal was set..he could be franchised again..

 

[Va_Pats_Fan]

So confused a bit here...If signed before 7/15 this would be for a long term..and after that date..any NEW contract would be for a year only...so thusly after the season he would AGAIN be a free agent. The losing of the franchise tag for a year..next year?? Or basically this year..so it could not be used on another player...so after this year if no deal was set..he could be franchised again..

I think he can sign after 7/15, but if he does, the team loses the use of the franchise tag for the life of the contract..

 

[Pats726]

I think he can sign after 7/15, but if he does, the team loses the use of the franchise tag for the life of the contract..

But if I understand what was said..after 7.15 it can ONLY be a 1 year deal...so the life of the contract is ONLY till next offseason..so?? THAT does not seem correct. If only a 1 year deal...after 7.15..then franchise tag COULD be used in 08... But I think the loss of franchise tag was IF signed before...someone must clarify...

 

[frankiesfly]

Trade Asante then what? He isn't going anywhere.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

There is no more losing the tag rule. The new CBA changed the Franchise Tag rules. Now teams can sign a tagged player to a long term deal any time before July 15th. After July 15th they can only sign that player to a one year deal (either the tag or a deal like Alexander signed to get him into camp where he was guaranteed the same money as the tag but the team stipulated they would not re-tag him the following season). The player can be signed to a long term extension after the last week of the regular season (or of course any time after that up to the opening day of FA). Nothing in the CBA restricts the ability to use the tag again on him or someone else the following year.

So if they don't get a deal done by July 15th he can stay tagged and be re-tagged. Problem is he may refuse to report, which is why a team may opt to do a seperate one year deal with some incentive (like a stipulation not to re-tag) to get the player into camp.

No one has said things are progressing let alone hinted at any iminent deal. I think the going well comments just indicate there is no animosity AT THIS POINT and the sides are still communicating or negotiating. Still a month to go before the draft. It could well be there is no animosity because the sides have already agreed to proceed on an understanding that either a deal will be done here or a trade will be persued so a deal can be done. I think unlike Briggs Asante and his agent welcomed the tag to some extent as it legitimized his value to the market. Remember this was a player no talking head would have given you a plug nickel for in 2005 when they were all deriding our lack of any secondary.

 

[fgssand]

There is no more losing the tag rule. The new CBA changed the Franchise Tag rules. Now teams can sign a tagged player to a long term deal any time before July 15th. After July 15th they can only sign that player to a one year deal (either the tag or a deal like Alexander signed to get him into camp where he was guaranteed the same money as the tag but the team stipulated they would not re-tag him the following season). The player can be signed to a long term extension after the last week of the regular season (or of course any time after that up to the opening day of FA). Nothing in the CBA restricts the ability to use the tag again on him or someone else the following year.

So if they don't get a deal done by July 15th he can stay tagged and be re-tagged. Problem is he may refuse to report, which is why a team may opt to do a separate one year deal with some incentive (like a stipulation not to re-tag) to get the player into camp.

No one has said things are progressing let alone hinted at any imminent deal. I think the going well comments just indicate there is no animosity AT THIS POINT and the sides are still communicating or negotiating. Still a month to go before the draft. It could well be there is no animosity because the sides have already agreed to proceed on an understanding that either a deal will be done here or a trade will be pursued so a deal can be done. I think unlike Briggs Asante and his agent welcomed the tag to some extent as it legitimized his value to the market. Remember this was a player no talking head would have given you a plug nickel for in 2005 when they were all deriding our lack of any secondary.

Based on his wide smile during the Butch Stearns interview as well as positive comments from player & agent - my opinion is that they have already agreed in principle to a decent long term deal. Certainly there are enough deals, new and old, in place (Clements, Bailey, Woodson & Bly) to determine his value.

I think they are waiting until after draft day to announce the deal, I really believe there is no need at this point to telegraph this move.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Based on his wide smile during the Butch Stearns interview as well as positive comments from player & agent - my opinion is that they have already agreed in principle to a decent long term deal. Certainly there are enough deals, new and old, in place (Clements, Bailey, Woodson & Bly) to determine his value.

I think they are waiting until after draft day to announce the deal, I really believe there is no need at this point to telegraph this move.

Wishful thinking. I think Asante was smiling because he's guaranteed at least $7.8M and could be looking at a signing bonus or guarantees of upwards of $15M. The last offer we made him was $7.5M in signing bonus. I find it hard to envision us bridging that gap unless Asante wants a lot less than he could easily get on the open market. I think they like him a lot, for a price, but they also know he isn't in the same league as the players you cited. His success is predicated to a large extent on the performance of an elite front 7. And that is where BB has chosen to make his top tier financial investments to date.

 

[PatsFan37]

His success is predicated to a large extent on the performance of an elite front 7. And that is where BB has chosen to make his top tier financial investments to date.

He was willing to seriously bust the cap with Ty Law's option bonus, $10 million or whatever it was in a year when many thought Law would be released.

And he's obviously willing to spend $7.5 million on one guy this year.

Looks to me like he budgets for CBs, if he thinks they're worth the money.

 

[Brady to Brown]

Wishful thinking. I think Asante was smiling because he's guaranteed at least $7.8M and could be looking at a signing bonus or guarantees of upwards of $15M. The last offer we made him was $7.5M in signing bonus. I find it hard to envision us bridging that gap unless Asante wants a lot less than he could easily get on the open market. I think they like him a lot, for a price, but they also know he isn't in the same league as the players you cited. His success is predicated to a large extent on the performance of an elite front 7. And that is where BB has chosen to make his top tier financial investments to date.

The front 7 will be better this year with Thomas. Samuel may have a better year than last year playing behind that line. If that happens the Pats might not be able to afford him next year. Now is the time to get a long term deal for the Patriots. Provided they want to.

 

[Pats726]

There is no more losing the tag rule. The new CBA changed the Franchise Tag rules. Now teams can sign a tagged player to a long term deal any time before July 15th. After July 15th they can only sign that player to a one year deal (either the tag or a deal like Alexander signed to get him into camp where he was guaranteed the same money as the tag but the team stipulated they would not re-tag him the following season). The player can be signed to a long term extension after the last week of the regular season (or of course any time after that up to the opening day of FA). Nothing in the CBA restricts the ability to use the tag again on him or someone else the following year.

So if they don't get a deal done by July 15th he can stay tagged and be re-tagged. Problem is he may refuse to report, which is why a team may opt to do a seperate one year deal with some incentive (like a stipulation not to re-tag) to get the player into camp.

No one has said things are progressing let alone hinted at any iminent deal. I think the going well comments just indicate there is no animosity AT THIS POINT and the sides are still communicating or negotiating. Still a month to go before the draft. It could well be there is no animosity because the sides have already agreed to proceed on an understanding that either a deal will be done here or a trade will be persued so a deal can be done. I think unlike Briggs Asante and his agent welcomed the tag to some extent as it legitimized his value to the market. Remember this was a player no talking head would have given you a plug nickel for in 2005 when they were all deriding our lack of any secondary.

Thanks...that clarifies...I really think a long term deal may be iin the works...but I do NOT see this at all as DB's last year..hardly the same..MUCH different in so many ways..NOT at all the same..I am more optimistic..but we shall see....thanks for that clairification..makes perfect sense..

 

[MoLewisrocks]

He was willing to seriously bust the cap with Ty Law's option bonus, $10 million or whatever it was in a year when many thought Law would be released.

And he's obviously willing to spend $7.5 million on one guy this year.

Looks to me like he budgets for CBs, if he thinks they're worth the money.

Ty never had an option bonus. He had a $10M cap hit in 2004, but just a $6M salary which when healthy he was still well worth. His dead cap at that time was still $5.5M. So they played that hand out although they tried to get him to sign an extension to eliminate double digit cap hits in those final two years. Because he wouldn't they let him walk in 2005 when his cap hit was scheduled to be $12M+.

Asante Samuel is no Ty Law. And when we were paying him $6M and absorbing $8-10M cap hits we didn't have a QB or DE or LB with anything approaching his cap numbers. Milloy would have been close, but we chose to let him walk in 2003 rather than overpay him.

He may or may not be willing to spend $7.8M on one CB this season. We don't know that yet and likely won't until TC or later. Until he signs that tag and reports to camp we won't be paying him anything. And once he signs that tag we can do with him as we choose. The JETS tagged Abraham last season when they had no intention of paying him. Sometimes the tag is just a means to an end - controlling a players rights. Occasionally a team withdraws the tag, as Philly did with Corey Simon in June of 2005.

Asante will either be signed long term to a deal that pays him substantially less than $7.8M per year and cuts his cap nearly in half this season and likely includes lots of option and roster bonuses lest he stumble back into 2005 form - or he will play under that tag this year and be re-tagged and traded next year to recoup some additional value for paying him that amount, or he will be traded this season for draft compensation (and who knows, maybe a nickle+ DB) either in 2007 or 2008.

 

[sebman2112]

Yea, if they extend him it will probably come sometime during the summer.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Ty never had an option bonus. He had a $10M cap hit in 2004, but just a $6M salary which when healthy he was still well worth. His dead cap at that time was still $5.5M. So they played that hand out although they tried to get him to sign an extension to eliminate double digit cap hits in those final two years. Because he wouldn't they let him walk in 2005 when his cap hit was scheduled to be $12M+.

Asante Samuel is no Ty Law. And when we were paying him $6M and absorbing $8-10M cap hits we didn't have a QB or DE or LB with anything approaching his cap numbers. Milloy would have been close, but we chose to let him walk in 2003 rather than overpay him.

He may or may not be willing to spend $7.8M on one CB this season. We don't know that yet and likely won't until TC or later. Until he signs that tag and reports to camp we won't be paying him anything. And once he signs that tag we can do with him as we choose. The JETS tagged Abraham last season when they had no intention of paying him. Sometimes the tag is just a means to an end - controlling a players rights. Occasionally a team withdraws the tag, as Philly did with Corey Simon in June of 2005.

Asante will either be signed long term to a deal that pays him substantially less than $7.8M per year and cuts his cap nearly in half this season and likely includes lots of option and roster bonuses lest he stumble back into 2005 form - or he will play under that tag this year and be re-tagged and traded next year to recoup some additional value for paying him that amount, or he will be traded this season for draft compensation (and who knows, maybe a nickle+ DB) either in 2007 or 2008.

I think the only numbers that matter now are what the Broncos gave Dre Bly last week: something like $16m guaranteed. Anyone know those details?

 

[fgssand]

Wishful thinking. I think Asante was smiling because he's guaranteed at least $7.8M and could be looking at a signing bonus or guarantees of upwards of $15M. The last offer we made him was $7.5M in signing bonus. I find it hard to envision us bridging that gap unless Asante wants a lot less than he could easily get on the open market. I think they like him a lot, for a price, but they also know he isn't in the same league as the players you cited. His success is predicated to a large extent on the performance of an elite front 7. And that is where BB has chosen to make his top tier financial investments to date.

I am indeed the eternal optomist. Asante may just be "renting" those cap dollars for one year when they will be transferred over to Tiny for 2008??

 

[PatsFan37]

Ty never had an option bonus. He had a $10M cap hit in 2004, but just a $6M salary which when healthy he was still well worth. His dead cap at that time was still $5.5M. So they played that hand out although they tried to get him to sign an extension to eliminate double digit cap hits in those final two years. Because he wouldn't they let him walk in 2005 when his cap hit was scheduled to be $12M+.

Asante Samuel is no Ty Law. And when we were paying him $6M and absorbing $8-10M cap hits we didn't have a QB or DE or LB with anything approaching his cap numbers. Milloy would have been close, but we chose to let him walk in 2003 rather than overpay him.

He may or may not be willing to spend $7.8M on one CB this season. We don't know that yet and likely won't until TC or later. Until he signs that tag and reports to camp we won't be paying him anything. And once he signs that tag we can do with him as we choose. The JETS tagged Abraham last season when they had no intention of paying him. Sometimes the tag is just a means to an end - controlling a players rights. Occasionally a team withdraws the tag, as Philly did with Corey Simon in June of 2005.

Asante will either be signed long term to a deal that pays him substantially less than $7.8M per year and cuts his cap nearly in half this season and likely includes lots of option and roster bonuses lest he stumble back into 2005 form - or he will play under that tag this year and be re-tagged and traded next year to recoup some additional value for paying him that amount, or he will be traded this season for draft compensation (and who knows, maybe a nickle+ DB) either in 2007 or 2008.

You have a far more impressive command of the facts than I do. Still, he paid Ty a substantial salary that year and I suspect they wouldn't have tagged Samuels if they weren't willing to pay him $7.8 million this year.

With all the aging vets and rookie contracts in the secondary, compared to every other unit on the team, the DBs occupy the smallest proportion of the budget, yet CBs are among the highest-paid players.

You're saying that's because BB rates it the least worthwhile, but you could as easily say that there's room to spend. Besides, there's an inherent risk with arguments based on a short history. He won't draft an OL in the first round, until he does. Or a RB in the first round, until he does. Or pay big money to a CB, until he does.

Since Ty Law was here, burning every bridge in town, BB hasn't had the opportunity to bring up a CB within his system and negotiate a contract to keep him. So I'm not sure history counts for all that much in this case.