If Lynch Is There at 28...

[sebman2112]

But you're advocating spending first round salaries on two part-time players. That's not going to fly. Too much money in one position that really is fungible behind a good offensive line.

They would be more than part time players. As I said before you could use Lynch in a lot of different ways. Also, it would cost less for Maroney and Lynch, than it did for Dillon and Maroney, so that point is invalid.

 

[TealSox]

I spoke with a friend about Lynch a couple years ago. She was a trainer on the football team and dealt mostly with the running backs. While I was talking about JJ Arrington, she was raving about this guy named Lynch and how he has so much athletic skill that he would do the craziest things while on the field and waiting to get his reps (ie, doing back flips on the sideline).

She went on about how the guy was so talented that he amazed everyone, but he always acted like a thug. You can see it now with this "grill" and his dreads. Honestly, the guy reminds me of Edgerrien James and there is nothing wrong with that. I just question his wannabe thug mentality.

Do the Pats need that?

 

[dryheat44]

They would be more than part time players. As I said before you could use Lynch in a lot of different ways. Also, it would cost less for Maroney and Lynch, than it did for Dillon and Maroney, so that point is invalid.

1. What in BBs history suggest that they'll do that? Who are you going to sit? Watson? Stallworth? Another WR or TE? If BB wanted to run that kind of offense more often than a couple of times a year, he had the perfect back to do it with in Faulk.

2. Come on. Dillon's not here anymore. Maroney and Dillon shared the backfield for one year. Maroney and Lynch are going to have 5 year 1st-round contracts running concurrently. Dillon's contract was fairly cheap for a proven player.

 

[cstjohn17]

1. What in BBs history suggest that they'll do that? Who are you going to sit? Watson? Stallworth? Another WR or TE? If BB wanted to run that kind of offense more often than a couple of times a year, he had the perfect back to do it with in Faulk.

2. Come on. Dillon's not here anymore. Maroney and Dillon shared the backfield for one year. Maroney and Lynch are going to have 5 year 1st-round contracts running concurrently. Dillon's contract was fairly cheap for a proven player.

It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to have 2 quality RBs, the whole discussion reminds me of the start of last years Red Sox season "What are we going to do with 6 quality starting pitchers?"

1) Watson and Graham is a good comparison. Watson was drafted with the second pick in round 1, having the luxury pick made Watson a viable option at 32 even though he wasn't even the highest rated TE (Troupe was I believe). Graham was a young starter with potential (much like Maroney) he also couldn't stay on the field (much like Maroney).

2) The money is cheap, Maroney signed a 5 year 8.75 million dollar contract , less than $2M per season.

At this point Maroney has not proven he can handle the NFL load, if you hit the jackpot and they both can play then the team has a very high class problem of getting them touches. The exact opposite of last season when at the end of the year Heath Evans was the only option at RB because everyone was else was banged up.


...Contract details....
Maroney signed a five-year deal worth a total of $8.735 million in August, 2006, according to the NFLPA. $6.13 million of the contract is guaranteed. Easily-obtained incentives could increase that amount to $6.2 million.

 

[dryheat44]

It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to have 2 quality RBs, the whole discussion reminds me of the start of last years Red Sox season "What are we going to do with 6 quality starting pitchers?"

1) Watson and Graham is a good comparison. Watson was drafted with the second pick in round 1, having the luxury pick made Watson a viable option at 32 even though he wasn't even the highest rated TE (Troupe was I believe). Graham was a young starter with potential (much like Maroney) he also couldn't stay on the field (much like Maroney).

2) The money is cheap, Maroney signed a 5 year 8.75 million dollar contract , less than $2M per season.

At this point Maroney has not proven he can handle the NFL load, if you hit the jackpot and they both can play then the team has a very high class problem of getting them touches. The exact opposite of last season when at the end of the year Heath Evans was the only option at RB because everyone was else was banged up.


...Contract details....
Maroney signed a five-year deal worth a total of $8.735 million in August, 2006, according to the NFLPA. $6.13 million of the contract is guaranteed. Easily-obtained incentives could increase that amount to $6.2 million.

I understand the Patriots can afford it. I just can't see them paying two first round running backs for multiple years when only one is going to be on the field at a time 95% of the time, and neglecting other positions where you can play more than one at a time (like tight end, or defensive end) and improve the team. Who spends a #1 pick on a backup?

Really, drafting Marshawn Lynch at 24 makes as much sense as drafting Drew Stanton at 28.

I'm not against picking up a quality RB to team with Maroney, but not in the first round.

 

[dhamz]

1) Watson and Graham is a good comparison. Watson was drafted with the second pick in round 1, having the luxury pick made Watson a viable option at 32 even though he wasn't even the highest rated TE (Troupe was I believe). Graham was a young starter with potential (much like Maroney) he also couldn't stay on the field (much like Maroney)

Don't really see the comparison - unless you think the Pats are going to start running a 2 halfback offense like they run a 2 TE offense. Both Watson and Graham projected as starters over the life of their rookie contracts. Another 1st round RB would mean both RBs would project as part time players over the life of their contract.

 

[cstjohn17]

Don't really see the comparison - unless you think the Pats are going to start running a 2 halfback offense like they run a 2 TE offense. Both Watson and Graham projected as starters over the life of their rookie contracts. Another 1st round RB would mean both RBs would project as part time players over the life of their contract.

True, but they didn't run 2 TE sets every play. Someone out there may have the breakdown but it was likely around 50-60%. Leaving one of them off the field 40-50% of the time, not to mention the games that they missed because of injury.

Last year the Patriots ran the ball about 500 times (499) 6th most in the NFL. A breakdown of:
Maroney 250 touches = 1100 yards
Lynch - 150 touches = 600 yards
The rest of the scrubs Morris, Faulk, Evans - 100 touches = 400 yards

2000 yards give or take, about the exact same number as 06 (1969. 12th in NFL)

Very high class problem to have, it could even be conceivable that Lynch beats Faulk outright and becomes the primary 3rd down back. Given the high injury rate and lack of credible talent behind Maroney (plus question marks around his durability) drafting Lynch at 24 is not a bad move. Most ratings have him as top 15 so it is also a good value pick.

I am also confused, everyone was going bonkers about the potential of drafting Carriker (I move I agree with) even though he would at best be the 3rd option for the next 2 years. Yet, the idea of adding a second quality RB is being dismissed outright. A 2nd RB has about the same impact as a 3rd DE and both positions have a high injury risk so I don't really see that much of a difference in the two scenarios.

 

[sebman2112]

True, but they didn't run 2 TE sets every play. Someone out there may have the breakdown but it was likely around 50-60%. Leaving one of them off the field 40-50% of the time, not to mention the games that they missed because of injury.

Last year the Patriots ran the ball about 500 times (499) 6th most in the NFL. A breakdown of:
Maroney 250 touches = 1100 yards
Lynch - 150 touches = 600 yards
The rest of the scrubs Morris, Faulk, Evans - 100 touches = 400 yards

2000 yards give or take, about the exact same number as 06 (1969. 12th in NFL)

Very high class problem to have, it could even be conceivable that Lynch beats Faulk outright and becomes the primary 3rd down back. Given the high injury rate and lack of credible talent behind Maroney (plus question marks around his durability) drafting Lynch at 24 is not a bad move. Most ratings have him as top 15 so it is also a good value pick.

I am also confused, everyone was going bonkers about the potential of drafting Carriker (I move I agree with) even though he would at best be the 3rd option for the next 2 years. Yet, the idea of adding a second quality RB is being dismissed outright. A 2nd RB has about the same impact as a 3rd DE and both positions have a high injury risk so I don't really see that much of a difference in the two scenarios.

Yea, I think some people are missing the point. Lynch has good receiving skills, so he would not only be sharing carries with Maroney, but he would also replace Faulk as the third down back, within the next few years.

Seriously, Faulk is on his way to being done, and those who don't see it are completely delusional. I'll take Maroney, Lynch, and Morris over Maroney Morris, and Faulk any day of the week.

Also, it seems funny people would be pushing for an OG, or Carriker, when NE already has good OG's, and great DE's, especially when those same people don't want to add a game changing RB?

Mind you Lynch is not my first option, he might not be there, and I could see them going other directions first, but adding Lynch is no less valid than drafting Grubbs, or anyone else who plays at a position NE doesn't really need help at.

 

[hobbsownscoles]

Yea, I think some people are missing the point. Lynch has good receiving skills, so he would not only be sharing carries with Maroney, but he would also replace Faulk as the third down back, within the next few years.

Seriously, Faulk is on his way to being done, and those who don't see it are completely delusional. I'll take Maroney, Lynch, and Morris over Maroney Morris, and Faulk any day of the week.

Also, it seems funny people would be pushing for an OG, or Carriker, when NE already has good OG's, and great DE's, especially when those same people don't want to add a game changing RB?

Mind you Lynch is not my first option, he might not be there, and I could see them going other directions first, but adding Lynch is no less valid than drafting Grubbs, or anyone else who plays at a position NE doesn't really need help at.

Why don't we just draft a position of need then

 

[sebman2112]

Why don't we just draft a position of need then

Haha, try suggesting that and ten people will say "NE is not going to draft a S, CB, or LB in the first"

No, it seems some people would rather draft a WR, OG, or DE...

They do have ten picks right? I mean, they could draft LB's, S's, CB's, and RB's early and still have picks to spend on other positions, right?

 

[cstjohn17]

Why don't we just draft a position of need then

Carriker, Grubbs, Staley, Blalock, Meachem, Lynch could all fall into the category of BPA (even if they are positions of relative strength) it is the opposite of drafting for need.

Anyway this has been beaten to death, thanks to everyone for being good sports about it.

 

[BlacRoc]

Why I like Lynch....

in approx. 591 touches at Cal. he did not give up the roc once!

Would love that tandem of Maroney/Lynch at the Razor.:bricks:

 

[patchick]

I'd kind of like to combine this discussion with the Meachem discussion and ask the general question: which offensive players, if any, would you take in round 1?

Let's say that an offensive player is only the pick if he seems like a clear level of talent above anybody else on the board. (Presumably everybody would take a consensus top-10 guy like Calvin Johnson, Joe Thomas or Adrian Peterson.)

To me, that means no interior linemen. OG is a deep position this year with no consensus on the top player, and there's no Mangold type at center.

At OT, I'd strongly consider Joe Staley.

TE, nobody. I'm not in love with Greg Olsen.

At RB, it's Lynch (and mayyyybe a look at Brian Leonard at 28).

WR, probably just Robert Meachem.


So that's a total offensive board of 3-4 guys, only one of whom is actually likely to be available. How 'bout you?

 

[JackPMiller]

There is no way he gets passed the Steelers, so you can forget about it.

 

[dryheat44]

I'd kind of like to combine this discussion with the Meachem discussion and ask the general question: which offensive players, if any, would you take in round 1?

WR, probably just Robert Meachem.


So that's a total offensive board of 3-4 guys, only one of whom is actually likely to be available. How 'bout you?

I would take Meachem in a heartbeat.
The other offensive guys I'd consider would be Grubbs, and Ugoh.

 

[cstjohn17]

I would take Meachem in a heartbeat.
The other offensive guys I'd consider would be Grubbs, and Ugoh.

All the offensive players listed are worth considering, on the defensive side, even though it is a stacked position Harrell, DT from Tenn. falls into the same sort of scenario.

 

[sebman2112]

I would take Meachem in a heartbeat.
The other offensive guys I'd consider would be Grubbs, and Ugoh.

Why do you like Ugoh so much? the guy's a head case, and I wouldn't draft him in the first round, at all.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Stellers need secondary help really bad.

I've played FB in college and I've got to tell you, RB's are really high strung and huge egomaniacs, type A plus personalities, which is probably a requirement of the position. They don't usually share very well, unless there are defined boundraries or skills that complement each other. For example one is a great inside guy and the other is a great change of pace outside runner. One is a plodder and one is a scatback. Or one is an aging vet and one a new young guy.
Two guys too much a like will usually divide a locker room. It takes special guys to share the rock from the RB position.

 

[sebman2112]

Stellers need secondary help really bad.

I've played FB in college and I've got to tell you, RB's are really high strung and huge egomaniacs, type A plus personalities, which is probably a requirement of the position. They don't usually share very well, unless there are defined boundraries or skills that complement each other. For example one is a great inside guy and the other is a great change of pace outside runner. One is a plodder and one is a scatback. Or one is an aging vet and one a new young guy.
Two guys too much a like will usually divide a locker room. It takes special guys to share the rock from the RB position.

I play MLB in college, and I'll tell you there can be type A personalties all over the field.

It does seem like there are more prima donna's on offense, though

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I believe Lynch was briefly under a cloud for an alleged sexual assault within recent months, while that seems to have gone away, it would be interesting to read the background investigation report to know what the details were. As a theoretical exercise I'd have no great heartache drafting Lynch to platoon with Maroney; as a practical exercise I'd prefer a day two RB who could clear waivers for the Practice Squad.