Semi-OT: Houston releases OL Brennan Williams

[captain stone]

If nothing else, Harmon's a good illustration that how much the fan base screams, curses and cries "reach!!!" is worthless as a predictor of how well a pick will pan out.

The best that can be said about Harmon so far is that at least he's better than the Error Repeater.

As for the OP, I kinda hope that Bill claims/signs Brennan Williams so that he can place him on IR
(e.g.: Jake Ballard, Josh Barrett) and see how it goes in 2015.

 

[PatFanCraig]

I wouldn't call VOLLMER a reach or a steal. He wasn't a steal because Round2 draft picks should play very well. I like VOLLMER a lot but before he can be called a steal in Round2 he needs to be as good as Round one elite LTs and perennial pro bowler. He is doing what players picked in Round 2 are expected. Play very well and make a pro bowl or 2. VOLLMER wasn't a reach reach because he started flying up draft boards after workouts and a closer look at his athleticism. Many teams were going to draft him in round3 and felt he was similar to Eben Britton but stronger. Being a big white dude from another country he was stereotyped as tight and stiff. New evaluations after the draft publications were released, changed their opinion on his athleticism. Vollmer was learned to be a major bada$$. A scout I know had him ranked as best tackle prospect behind ONLY Monroe. Same scout who others disagreed when he thought Jason Smith should be a late Round one at best and predicted him to struggle in the NFL unless he got stronger in many ways.

 

[Joker]

"I like VOLLMER a lot but before he can be called a steal in Round2 he needs to be as good as Round one elite LTs and perennial pro bowler."

Newsflash, Nervous Norman...Vollmer has been a RIGHT TACKLE since 2011..and has made a Pro Bowl.

 

[BradyFTW!]

It's about even. The fanbase cried "reach!!!" with Vollmer and he's our second best OL, when healthy. The fanbase also cried "reach!!!" with Tavon Wilson, and he's been about as useless as tits on a bull.

The fan base generally thought that Solder and Light were big reaches too. The lesson? when it comes to drafting tackles, IBBIT

 

[fnordcircle]

Unless you have access to the other 31 team draft boards calling anything a reach is just jerkoff know it all fan and draft 'analyst' ********. You simply cannot know if the next 31 teams would have all drafted Tavon if given a chance.

What I prefer to do is just judge whether or not it was a good pick and so far it doesn't look that way because the player hasn't played at a level worth of the position he was drafted not because of what the other 31 teams may or may not have done.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I wouldn't call VOLLMER a reach or a steal. He wasn't a steal because Round2 draft picks should play very well. I like VOLLMER a lot but before he can be called a steal in Round2 he needs to be as good as Round one elite LTs and perennial pro bowler. He is doing what players picked in Round 2 are expected. Play very well and make a pro bowl or 2. VOLLMER wasn't a reach reach because he started flying up draft boards after workouts and a closer look at his athleticism. Many teams were going to draft him in round3 and felt he was similar to Eben Britton but stronger. Being a big white dude from another country he was stereotyped as tight and stiff. New evaluations after the draft publications were released, changed their opinion on his athleticism. Vollmer was learned to be a major bada$$. A scout I know had him ranked as best tackle prospect behind ONLY Monroe. Same scout who others disagreed when he thought Jason Smith should be a late Round one at best and predicted him to struggle in the NFL unless he got stronger in many ways.

Second round picks are *expected* to become All Pros (which Vollmer is)? Any second rounder who becomes a better than league average starter has outperformed his draft position. Any who becomes an all pro is a home run pick.

Plus the fact that he was picked in one of the worst drafts ever makes him even more of a steal

 

[Deus Irae]

I wouldn't call VOLLMER a reach or a steal. He wasn't a steal because Round2 draft picks should play very well. I like VOLLMER a lot but before he can be called a steal in Round2 he needs to be as good as Round one elite LTs and perennial pro bowler. He is doing what players picked in Round 2 are expected. Play very well and make a pro bowl or 2. VOLLMER wasn't a reach reach because he started flying up draft boards after workouts and a closer look at his athleticism. Many teams were going to draft him in round3 and felt he was similar to Eben Britton but stronger. Being a big white dude from another country he was stereotyped as tight and stiff. New evaluations after the draft publications were released, changed their opinion on his athleticism. Vollmer was learned to be a major bada$$. A scout I know had him ranked as best tackle prospect behind ONLY Monroe. Same scout who others disagreed when he thought Jason Smith should be a late Round one at best and predicted him to struggle in the NFL unless he got stronger in many ways.

Player drafted significantly above where he was projected by general consensus = Reach (Tavon Wilson)
Player drafted significantly below were he was projected by general consensus = Steal (Manziel)
Player who dropped because of known issues which were expected to make him drop, is taken, and thrives = Steal (Dennard)
Player who was drafted low, where expected, and becomes a quality player = Steal (Edelman)
Player who was drafted fairly high (usually first 2 rounds, though this seems to be changing, as people seem to be including rounds 3 and lower at times) and fails to make it in the NFL at a level commensurate with where he was taken = Bust or Disappointment, depending on just how far he fell short.

It's really that simple, because they're just shorthand terms to describe a draft day happening. Why people feel the need to read more deeply into it than that is a matter for the shrinks.

 

[Kontradiction]

Unless you have access to the other 31 team draft boards calling anything a reach is just jerkoff know it all fan and draft 'analyst' ********. You simply cannot know if the next 31 teams would have all drafted Tavon if given a chance.

What I prefer to do is just judge whether or not it was a good pick and so far it doesn't look that way because the player hasn't played at a level worth of the position he was drafted not because of what the other 31 teams may or may not have done.

What the hell would it have mattered if the Pats would have waited and someone else would have taken Tavon? The guy hasn't exactly been a HOFer to date. It was a reach. There was some viable talent taken after him that would have been better picks for the Pats. It is what it is. As was mentioned, Vollmer was also a reach. But he's worked out. Tavon hasn't. If Belichick is allowed to get the genius label thrown at him for reaches that have worked, he deserves equal criticism reaches that haven't.

 

[fnordcircle]

What the hell would it have mattered if the Pats would have waited and someone else would have taken Tavon? The guy hasn't exactly been a HOFer to date. It was a reach.

I feel like we're about to enter a big dumb semantics debate but ok.

Reach = Player taken earlier than was necessary to get him.
Bust = Player who didn't play to the potential of their pick.

At least those are the definitions as I understand them. A player who is considered a 'reach' can still be a fine player. If you could go back in time, knowing what we know, then taking Tom Brady in the 2nd would be a reach because he was available in the 6th.

Which is my point, without knowing the other team's draft boards it's impossible short of a delorean and latent Parkinson's to truly know if someone was a reach. We can all tell when someone was a bust, though and I'd say Tavon looks to be one.

 

[woolster22]

"I like VOLLMER a lot but before he can be called a steal in Round2 he needs to be as good as Round one elite LTs and perennial pro bowler."

Newsflash, Nervous Norman...Vollmer has been a RIGHT TACKLE since 2011..and has made a Pro Bowl.

Vollmer has been an excellent right tackle with some health problems. The leg was one of those unfortunate injuries. The other injuries are the more worrisome types though...when healthy his play seems to warrant his pick as a consistent starting caliber player. Plenty of first round picks don't achieve that performance. While maybe he isn't a steal, he is certainly a strong pick.

 

[primetime]

I think you have to either declare "steals" and "reaches" on draft day OR after the results become clear, not both. Because the meanings of the terms shift.

On draft day, a draft "steal" is a player who slipped to a lower draft point than most analysts predicted based on his talents, allowing a team to secure his rights with an attractively cheap pick.

Three years later, a draft "steal" is a player whose performance has far exceeded what you'd expect from his draft position.

If you mix the two assessments they either become nonsense -- Vollmer was a reach and a steal! -- or just another way of saying "good picks" and "bad picks."

Also worth noting is that I suspect there's a lot of groupthink with draft analysts. They may say this guy is in the late 2nd round range because they all seem to agree that this guy's in the late 2nd round range and no one wants to buck this trend. Most of the quibbles are over where players fall in the top 50 but rarely is it outside of a few spots. This may not be true with teams and their personnel departments, who have different evaluations of players.

 

[AzPatsFan]

What the hell would it have mattered if the Pats would have waited and someone else would have taken Tavon? The guy hasn't exactly been a HOFer to date. It was a reach. There was some viable talent taken after him that would have been better picks for the Pats. It is what it is. As was mentioned, Vollmer was also a reach. But he's worked out. Tavon hasn't. If Belichick is allowed to get the genius label thrown at him for reaches that have worked, he deserves equal criticism reaches that haven't.

I don't think there were any big Safeties picked after Tavon in that draft, that amounted to much...

If there were, please enlighten me.

 

[Kontradiction]

I feel like we're about to enter a big dumb semantics debate but ok.

Reach = Player taken earlier than was necessary to get him.
Bust = Player who didn't play to the potential of their pick.

At least those are the definitions as I understand them. A player who is considered a 'reach' can still be a fine player. If you could go back in time, knowing what we know, then taking Tom Brady in the 2nd would be a reach because he was available in the 6th.

Which is my point, without knowing the other team's draft boards it's impossible short of a delorean and latent Parkinson's to truly know if someone was a reach. We can all tell when someone was a bust, though and I'd say Tavon looks to be one.

A reach can either be a smashing success or a colossal failure. I've given examples of both. Vollmer was a reach panned by the board who ended up being a smashing success because he's one of the best OL on the team. Wilson, to this point, is a reach that is a colossal failure because, to this point, he's sucked the fattest **** on the field. If the team had lost out on Tavon because they took someone better at another position in the 2nd that actually had 2nd round talent, hell fire and brimstone wouldn't have exactly fallen from the sky.

I don't think there were any big Safeties picked after Tavon in that draft, that amounted to much...

If there were, please enlighten me.

You realize that there were more positions of need that year than just safety, correct? You realize that there were other, more talented options at those other positions of need drafted after Wilson, correct?

 

[NE_PATS_FAN_54]

From NFL.com:



Brennan Williams released by Houston Texans - NFL.com

It should be noted that BB was widely derided for "reaching" for Duron Harmon with the 92nd pick in the 3rd round in the 2013 draft, sandwiched neatly in-between Williams at 89 and Montgomery at 95. Harmon goes to training camp in his second year as the favorite for a starting job opposite Devin McCourty. Josh Boyce at 102 in the 4th round was also drafted in the same vicinity, and has a chance to became the Pats' kickoff returner and perhaps more. Late 3rd/early 4th round picks are far from a sure thing.

Tough to hear this about a local kid. He grew up in Easton, MA, went to Catholic Memorial before UNC. Haven't seen it mentioned here, but he is also the son of former Patriot DE Brent Williams. Hope the kid gets healthy and gets another shot.

 

[mayoclinic]

Houston cuts 2013 4th round pick Trevardo Williams today:

Texans cut another 2013 draft pick | ProFootballTalk

15 months later, Houston's 2013 draft looks like this:

1(27). WR DeAndre Hopkins. Had a good rookie year, with 52 receptions for 802 yards and 2 TDs.

2(52). S DJ Swearinger. Had a solid rookie year, starting 10 games with 71 tackles, 1 FF and 1 INT. I wanted him for the Pats.

3(89). OT Brennan Williams. Cut. Never played a game for the Texans.

3(95). DE/OLB Sam Montgomery. Cut his rookie season for violation of team rules.

4(124). DE/OLB Trevardo Williams. Spent all of 2013 on IR after sustaining an injury in preseason. Started 2014 on PUP. Cut today.

6(176). OL David Quessenberry. Missed almost all of 2013 on IR with a foot injury. Now unfortunately diagnosed with lymphoma, placed on NFI list.

6(195). WR Alan Bonner. Spent 2013 on IR. Cut at the beginning of training camp this year.

6(198). DT Chris Jones. Cut at the end of August, picked up by Tampa Bay, cut again. Now with the Pats, where he started most of 2013 after injuries to others.

6(201). TE Ryan Griffin. Had 19 receptions for 244 yards and 1 TD in 2013.​

Not what they probably hoped for a year ago.

 

[captain stone]

Too bad about Brennan Williams, and also about David Quessenberry, whom I really liked as a LT/LG
prospect. Had Bill not predictably wasted their 2013 5th-rounder on Fat Albert, I would've been happy
if it had been used instead on Quessenberry.