Patriots WR 2014 firepower

[TriplecHamp]

Well, I believe there is a big difference between 4.34 speed and 4.38 speed.
Let's take two WRs one has 4.34 and the other is 4.38
WR1 = 40/4.34 = 9.22 yds/sec
WR2 = 40/4.38 = 9.13 yds/sec
also lets take a CB with 4.4 speed ( fairly fast for a CB)
CB = 40/4.4 = 9.09 yds/sec

So lets see how long it will take our WRs to gain 1 yd on our CB

WR1 - CB = 9.22 - 9.09 = .13 yd/sec
so it will take WR1: 1yd/.13yd/sec = 7.7 secs to get 1 yd separation
compared to
WR2 - CB = 9.13 - 9.09 = .04 yd/sec
which will take WR2: 1yd/.04yd/sec = 25 secs to get 1yd separation

7.7 secs vs 25 secs is a BIG difference.
(check my math --- maybe I did something wrong)

This is all under the condition that players play to their timed speed. There is no getting off a jam, rout recognition and hip flipping in a 40 yard dash either.

 

[Tunescribe]

my remark was aimed at your seeming disappointment that he clocked 4/100ths of a second slower at 4.38. My point is 4.34 and 4.38 only differ in the amplitude of the stride by mere inches. For all intents and purposes in a real life football scenario that would be a dead heat.

Yeah, but the guy with longer arms wins the battle.

 

[BTTA]

I wish I had a faster time in reading through this thread.

 

[JR4]

This is all under the condition that players play to their timed speed. There is no getting off a jam, rout recognition and hip flipping in a 40 yard dash either.

I understand that. But if both WRs get off their blocks and flip their hips in the same amount of time
I believe the 4.34 WR will still be able to create separation faster than the 4.38 WR and more so if
the play 30yds or more.

 

[Ring 6]

Well, I believe there is a big difference between 4.34 speed and 4.38 speed.
Let's take two WRs one has 4.34 and the other is 4.38
WR1 = 40/4.34 = 9.22 yds/sec
WR2 = 40/4.38 = 9.13 yds/sec
also lets take a CB with 4.4 speed ( fairly fast for a CB)
CB = 40/4.4 = 9.09 yds/sec

So lets see how long it will take our WRs to gain 1 yd on our CB

WR1 - CB = 9.22 - 9.09 = .13 yd/sec
so it will take WR1: 1yd/.13yd/sec = 7.7 secs to get 1 yd separation
compared to
WR2 - CB = 9.13 - 9.09 = .04 yd/sec
which will take WR2: 1yd/.04yd/sec = 25 secs to get 1yd separation

7.7 secs vs 25 secs is a BIG difference.
(check my math --- maybe I did something wrong)

ASSUMING your math is correct, this means that the guy who ran the 4.34 beat the guy who ran the 4.38 by one foot IN THAT SINGLE RUN. You are out of your mind if you think every time they run, the first guy will beat the second guy by a foot, and that this one foot over 40 yards is relevant.
Additionally, please explain when you have ever seen a football player run 40 yards unimpeded, as well as do it in a race vs a corner.
By your logic no receiver could beat any corner because the corner is 5 yards off and it would take 1000 yards to make up the difference.
Lets now take into effect that the guy who won a 40 yard race by a foot starting from the blocks and running dead straight may actually be slower when he has to avoid a defender, run an actual football route, and get out of a WR stance.
It adds up to your post is pointless.

 

[JR4]

it's YOU that cannot read or understand... I am referring to the WIDE RECEIVERS and their times...there is a 4/100 of a second difference...in real time that is a a dead heat in the 40. Stop trying to push these outlandish suppositions about 7 seconds and 25 seconds and all the rest of that speculative garbage. The point is 4/100ths of a second is just that...an inconsequential difference in REAL TIME when looking at it.

Ok let's see what the "inconsequential difference in REAL TIME"

WR1 = 40/4.34 = 9.22 yds/sec x 3 = 27.66 feet/sec speed
WR2 = 40/4.38 = 9.13 yds/sec x 3 = 27.39 feet/sec speed

If both WR's start at the same time how far did WR2 go when WR1 crosses the 40 yd marker?
Ok he has 4.34 seconds before WR1 finishes.
do Velocity times Time 27.39 feet/sec times 4.34 secs = 118.87 feet
which 1.13 feet short of 40 yds. That dear Joker is not a dead heat( if that means no difference)
and
when running against a slower our CB example is closer to 2 feet.

 

[Tunescribe]

Ok let's see what the "inconsequential difference in REAL TIME"

WR1 = 40/4.34 = 9.22 yds/sec x 3 = 27.66 feet/sec speed
WR2 = 40/4.38 = 9.13 yds/sec x 3 = 27.39 feet/sec speed

If both WR's start at the same time how far did WR2 go when WR1 crosses the 40 yd marker?
Ok he has 4.34 seconds before WR1 finishes.
do Velocity times Time 27.39 feet/sec times 4.34 secs = 118.87 feet
which 1.13 feet short of 40 yds. That dear Joker is not a dead heat( if that means no difference)
and
when running against a slower our CB example is closer to 2 feet.

OK, then how do you explain this?

 

[JR4]

ASSUMING your math is correct, this means that the guy who ran the 4.34 beat the guy who ran the 4.38 by one foot IN THAT SINGLE RUN. You are out of your mind if you think every time they run, the first guy will beat the second guy by a foot, and that this one foot over 40 yards is relevant.
Additionally, please explain when you have ever seen a football player run 40 yards unimpeded, as well as do it in a race vs a corner.
By your logic no receiver could beat any corner because the corner is 5 yards off and it would take 1000 yards to make up the difference.
Lets now take into effect that the guy who won a 40 yard race by a foot starting from the blocks and running dead straight may actually be slower when he has to avoid a defender, run an actual football route, and get out of a WR stance.
It adds up to your post is pointless.

Bearing your insults I will give response to the following:

"You are out of your mind if you think every time they run, the first guy will beat the second guy by a foot"
Never said that ... try sticking to what I said and not infer what I did not say ( you do that a lot)

"By your logic no receiver could beat any corner because the corner is 5 yards off"
My example never said the CB was 5 yds off and facing the WR. But any way, once the WR gets
off the Block and they running side by side ,Who has the advantage, the 4.34 WR or the
4.0 CB?

"run an actual football route, and get out of a WR stance."
has nothing to do with the example. When the CB and WR are side by side
running down the sideline,( which I'm quite sure you've seen many times),
the 4.34 WR has a big advantage over 4.4 CB, wouldn't you agree.
( don't forget the side by side condition could happen with in 10 yds of the line.)

 

[zydecochris]

Ok let's see what the "inconsequential difference in REAL TIME"

WR1 = 40/4.34 = 9.22 yds/sec x 3 = 27.66 feet/sec speed
WR2 = 40/4.38 = 9.13 yds/sec x 3 = 27.39 feet/sec speed

If both WR's start at the same time how far did WR2 go when WR1 crosses the 40 yd marker?
Ok he has 4.34 seconds before WR1 finishes.
do Velocity times Time 27.39 feet/sec times 4.34 secs = 118.87 feet
which 1.13 feet short of 40 yds. That dear Joker is not a dead heat( if that means no difference)
and
when running against a slower our CB example is closer to 2 feet.

A Patsfan thread that has degenerated into an extended argument about math. Red meat.

Let me see if I can simplify things a bit.

Both are running at approximately 9.2 yds/sec, so if one is 0.04 second behind the other one in a 40 yard dash then their separation after 40 yards would be about 0.37 yds (speed times delta t) or only about 1.1 feet (13.2 inches). However, that is a pretty deep route. For a 10 yard route if you assume the same speeds (I know that isn't necessarily true, but this is the simplest assumption so let me go with this for illustrative purposes), then their separation would be about 13.2 inches/4 =3.3 inches of separation after 10 yards.

I suspect that this is where Joker got his few inches number, if they are running all out at their average 40 speeds there would only be 3.3 inches of separation after 10 yards, which is a typical route distance.

 

[Ring 6]

Bearing your insults I will give response to the following:

"You are out of your mind if you think every time they run, the first guy will beat the second guy by a foot"
Never said that ... try sticking to what I said and not infer what I did not say ( you do that a lot)

No you didn't say that. It is a facet of your argument that you are ignoring.

"By your logic no receiver could beat any corner because the corner is 5 yards off

"
My example never said the CB was 5 yds off and facing the WR. But any way, once the WR gets
off the Block and they running side by side ,Who has the advantage, the 4.34 WR or the
4.0 CB?

That isn't football. That is my point.

"run an actual football route, and get out of a WR stance."

has nothing to do with the example. When the CB and WR are side by side
running down the sideline,( which I'm quite sure you've seen many times),
the 4.34 WR has a big advantage over 4.4 CB, wouldn't you agree.
( don't forget the side by side condition could happen with in 10 yds of the line.)

No I dont agree because you are saying there is a major difference between a WR who once ran a 4.34 and one who once ran a 4.38. I have pointed out many flaws in that, but you don't want to understand, you want to make a poor statement and then keep arguing it isn't poor.
Gaining one foot over a 40 yard is not a huge advantage even despite all of the flaws you wish to ignore while pretending a 40 time is a constant like height, and that NFL players ever run 40 yards unimpeded stride for stride with someone else.
I'll put it another way. 0.04 seconds is so slight that no QB who has ever played could take advantage of it 40 yards downfield.

 

[Ring 6]

"run an actual football route, and get out of a WR stance."
has nothing to do with the example. When the CB and WR are side by side
running down the sideline,( which I'm quite sure you've seen many times),
the 4.34 WR has a big advantage over 4.4 CB, wouldn't you agree.
( don't forget the side by side condition could happen with in 10 yds of the line.)

Those times are not with a running start. The 0.04 difference is very likely due to who got out of the blocks faster in that specific run, which is why players going into the draft TRAIN to get out of the blocks, something that only gives them a better time, and does not actually improve their speed.