Tell my again why Woodley wouldn't be a good fit at OLB?

[midwestpatsfan]

I know that Woodley has been a topic of discussion in the past, but I just was looking at some more video of him and came away thinking he would be a great fit in our system. Here is what I came away with after my research.

1. While his height is not ideal for OLB in the system, he still is almost 6'2" and at 266 that is a nice size for an OLB in the Patriots system.

2. He does have some experience at LB at Michigan. He also uses his hands really well.

3. He is an awesome pass rusher, which the Patriots could really use, but from what I saw, he is very good against the run as well and seems to set the corner very effectively.

4. He is one of the better tacklers I have seen so far, always raps up and hits the person square.

I know that we have signed AD, but overall depth is still going to be an issue. Colvin has been inconsistent and I think Woodley is very similar to what McGinest was for this team. I am not sure how well Woodley is in pass coverage, but Willie was never great at it either. I also think Woodley could move inside as well, which would mean his stock would rise because of versatility.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

Because if he's on the Pats, every time they say his name I'll be reminded of ol' Dave Woodley and his Miami teammates back when they beat us all the time. And so it'll never happen, I know it...trust me. :rocker:

 

[cstjohn17]

I think he can play OLB but the question is where does he get drafted?

He is a big reach at 28 and will likely be gone at 91. Unless the Pats trade back I don't see it happening.

Not that is matters but I like Spencer better than Woodley.

 

[midwestpatsfan]

Not that is matters but I like Spencer better than Woodley.[/QUOTE]

That is where you and I disagree. I just don't see Spencer as a very good OLB in this system, he seems like a pass rusher and that is about it, not quite versatile enough for me.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

It's not a question of can't, it's a question of value. Woods from that same program is currently the number one OLB reserve on the roster. As a UDFA he is excellent value. Woodley is anticipated to go in the second round, is he that much of an improvement on Woods? I'd much rather try and land dual-purpose LBs like Bradley, Robison, or DeOssie in rounds 2-4, or look at DE to OLB prospects like Moore, Hickman, Ford, or Trusnik Day 2/UDFA.

 

[sebman2112]

It's not a question of can't, it's a question of value. Woods from that same program is currently the number one OLB reserve on the roster. As a UDFA he is excellent value. Woodley is anticipated to go in the second round, is he that much of an improvement on Woods? I'd much rather try and land dual-purpose LBs like Bradley, Robison, or DeOssie in rounds 2-4, or look at DE to OLB prospects like Moore, Hickman, Ford, or Trusnik Day 2/UDFA.

How is Bradley more versatile than Woodley again? Also, don't make me LOL by comparing Woodley to Pierre Woods. They have totally different builds, and totally different playing styles.

 

[Handel]

According to Mike Mayock neither Woodley and Spencer are good potential 3-4... They are better hands down according to him.

 

[sebman2112]

According to Mike Mayock neither Woodley and Spencer are good potential 3-4... They are better hands down according to him.

Different scouts think both could be good 3-4 OLB's, and I've even seen a few talk about Woodley as a 3-4 ILB, so really everyone has their own opinion. I agree with Mayock a lot of times, but this isn't one of them. Also, I would rather have Woodley as a versatile LB, who primarily plays ILB, but also rotates at OLB. I really think Woodley could be a very good ILB, with a lot of versatility.

 

[DaBruinz]

How is Bradley more versatile than Woodley again? Also, don't make me LOL by comparing Woodley to Pierre Woods. They have totally different builds, and totally different playing styles.

Bradley is more Versatile because he can play ILB and OLB. Where Woodley would be limited to OLB and possible DE in a 4-3 alignment. Woodley is a 2 down LB as he was pulled in situations where he would have been required to drop back into coverage. Bradley would be able to stay on the field in those situations. Bradley has the ability to cover players.

Yes, Pierre Woods and Lamar Woodley have different builds and totally different playing styles. Woods is taller, but not as heavy as Woodley.

 

[DaBruinz]

Different scouts think both could be good 3-4 OLB's, and I've even seen a few talk about Woodley as a 3-4 ILB, so really everyone has their own opinion. I agree with Mayock a lot of times, but this isn't one of them. Also, I would rather have Woodley as a versatile LB, who primarily plays ILB, but also rotates at OLB. I really think Woodley could be a very good ILB, with a lot of versatility.

How do you figure that Woodley could be a good ILB? One of the knocks against him is his inability to cover people. Another knock is that he hasn't developed good read/react abilities and relies mainly on instinct.

What makes you believe that Woodley has the abilities to play in coverage from the ILB position?

 

[cstjohn17]

Not that is matters but I like Spencer better than Woodley.

That is where you and I disagree. I just don't see Spencer as a very good OLB in this system, he seems like a pass rusher and that is about it, not quite versatile enough for me.

I think it all starts with an ability to get to the QB. Everyting else can be taught. Pass rush is far and away the most important tool for an OLB/DE to possess.

Spencer is faster, a better pass rusher and better against the run. OLBs won't be covering players 20 yards down the field, they play a limited zone near the line of scrimmage. This can be taught (see history with McGinest, Colvin, Vrabel, and even TBC).

Woodley played on one of the best defenses in the country with a top 15 DT (Branch), a top 20 CB (Hall), a day one ILB (Harris) and other effective college players such as Burgess.

Spencer didn't play with anyone else who will get drafted and was a focus on the opponents game plan for the majority of the games he played.

Woodley is not a bad player, but I prefer Spencer.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Woodley doesn't have the change of direction ability to shadow anybody in coverage. And Bradley is not much better either. I still have a difficult time projecting Bradley on the inside for the Pats.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

How is Bradley more versatile than Woodley again? Also, don't make me LOL by comparing Woodley to Pierre Woods. They have totally different builds, and totally different playing styles.

You've already stated you question Bradley's coverage skills while everything I've read and heard suggest his coverage skills are decent for a big LB. Woodley missed the Senior Bowl, but he was there for some practices, I thought he struggled working at his normal DE slot. Bradley was used at both SLB and WLB, he filled very quickly against the run and showed good awareness in the passing game. One made himself look good, the other appeared to struggle and left with an injury that held him out of the game.

Woodley (265 pounds) was invited to the Combine but did not run in Indy. He ran two 40s in 4.74 and 4.84 seconds and the short shuttle in 4.42. Claiming to have a tight hamstring, he skipped the three-cone drill. He also had a 38½-inch vertical jump, a 9-foot-9 broad jump and 29 bench presses.

Bradley
Pro-day: (6-3¾, 258) ran 4.76 and 4.75 in the 40.
Combine: (254) 4.72/40, 2.71/20, 1.56/10, 28/225, 35 1/2"v, 9'4"b, 4.17ss, 7.29 3-cone

Using the numbers above, Bradley consistently runs in the 4.7s, with longer arms he still gets within one rep at 225, his change of direction speed is better, he's not as explosive as Woodley.

The number one reason to prefer Bradley over Woodley, he's already playing LB, Woodley is a conversion project. Since both are getting private workouts from the Pats, I'm sure BB & Co. can assess their relative value and what they need to do for success in New England. For my assessment, one came back from season ending injury to lead his team in tackles and perform well in the Senior Bowl and at the combine. The other was credited with an disappointing senior season, disappointing Senior Bowl, did not run at the Combine, and pulled up lame at his Pro-day. There is madness to my method.

Now, why not compare Woods and Woodley? You are projecting Woodley as a LB in the Pats 3-4. Woods "is" a LB in the Pats 3-4. Woods ranked #4 in ST tackles with 11 in 8 games (compared to team leaders Izzo 14 in 16gp, and Andrews 15 in 15gp, not too shabby). Woods demonstrated enough skill at OLB to win a roster spot as a UDFA while the 6th round draft pick walked. Woodley is a wannabe who could be a LB in the NFL. Let's not LOL too loudly about the comparison just yet.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Woodley doesn't have the change of direction ability to shadow anybody in coverage. And Bradley is not much better either. I still have a difficult time projecting Bradley on the inside for the Pats.

Below are the short shuttle and 3-cone drill results for NFL Draft Scout's top three ranked ILBs and Bradley. The heavier Bradley matches up pretty well by the numbers.

Willis, Patrick 4.46ss 7.23 3-c; Pro-day: He also had a 4.37 short shuttle and 7.10 three-cone drill.
Siler, Brandon (no ss) 7.34 3-c; Pro-day: He ran the short shuttle in 4.39 seconds and the three-cone drill in 7.70.
Harris, David 4.29ss 7.25 3-c
Bradley, Stewart 4.17ss 7.29 3-c

For further comparison, here's the top four TE's:
Olsen, Greg 4.48ss 7.04 3-c ; Pro-day: ran a 4.41 in the short shuttle.
Miller, Zach 4.42ss 7.01 3-c; Pro-day: notched a 4.36 short shuttle
Patrick, Ben 4.31ss 7.21 3-c
Chandler, Scott 4.32ss 7.26 3-c; Pro-day: the short shuttle in 4.22 and the three-cone drill in 7.12.

And the top three RBs:
Peterson, Adrian 4.40ss 7.09 3-c
Lynch, Marshawn 4.58ss 7.09 3-c
Leonard, Brian 4.22ss 6.88 3-c

Bradley's not the most athletic, but I liked his awareness in coverage during Senior Bowl week. I'd also like to see if those numbers improved at all in his second year back from the ACL tear.

 

[hobbsownscoles]

How do you figure that Woodley could be a good ILB? One of the knocks against him is his inability to cover people. Another knock is that he hasn't developed good read/react abilities and relies mainly on instinct.

What makes you believe that Woodley has the abilities to play in coverage from the ILB position?

The only people who say he could be an ILB are the ******s on this site who don't know what their talkin about

 

[cstjohn17]

The only people who say he could be an ILB are the ******s on this site who don't know what their talkin about

Angry and unelegant but on point.

 

[sebman2112]

How do you figure that Woodley could be a good ILB? One of the knocks against him is his inability to cover people. Another knock is that he hasn't developed good read/react abilities and relies mainly on instinct.

What makes you believe that Woodley has the abilities to play in coverage from the ILB position?

Read the other thread about backers to get more of an understanding on how I would use Woodley.

 

[midwestpatsfan]

Thanks for the info all. It is nice to see the 3 cone and SS numbers together for a good comparison. I should know more about Bradley since he is in the Big 12, but he slipped through the cracks during the season.

 

[patchick]

Now, why not compare Woods and Woodley? You are projecting Woodley as a LB in the Pats 3-4. Woods "is" a LB in the Pats 3-4. Woods ranked #4 in ST tackles with 11 in 8 games (compared to team leaders Izzo 14 in 16gp, and Andrews 15 in 15gp, not too shabby). Woods demonstrated enough skill at OLB to win a roster spot as a UDFA while the 6th round draft pick walked. Woodley is a wannabe who could be a LB in the NFL. Let's not LOL too loudly about the comparison just yet.

What's more, if Woods, a guy with DE and 3-4 OLB experience at a major college program and these measurables...
6' 4"
249
40: 4.75
Vertical: 33"
Shuttle: 4.19
Cone: 6.87
...were in the 2007 draft we'd probably be talking about him a ton. His bad luck to be in the kind of draft where a Mark Anderson lasts to the 5th round!

 

[sebman2112]

The only people who say he could be an ILB are the ******s on this site who don't know what their talkin about

And you're the resident football expert? Right.

Before you start claiming people are talking out of their ass you might wan't to take a look in the mirror.