Rank these in order of worst picks

[Sicilian]

I'm not going to rank all of them, because I think that's overkill, but the one pick that I think has everything going against it is Chad Jackson. They traded UP in the 2nd round, to draft a wide receiver that ended up having a poor work ethic, an inability to learn the playbook, and a series of injuries. Most of the others I can at least make some rationale for, or were at least 3rd rounders where the real crap shoot begins. But nothing about Chad Jackson worked out, and he cost multiple picks.

 

[Deus Irae]

Using a first round pick who ultimately failed at his drafted position and had to be moved is probably not the best example you could have chosen.

Simple reality: using a player who failed at his position as a means of deriding those "experts" who disagreed with the pick is not using the best example. 2 people have clicked "disagree" with a post that has nothing to disagree with.


Gotta love Patsfans.com.

 

[Brady6]

Simple reality: using player who failed at his position as a means of deriding those "experts" who disagreed with the pick is not using the best example. 2 people have clicked "disagree" with a post that has nothing to disagree with.


Gotta love Patsfans.com.

Did McCourty in fact fail or was the move to safety out of need? The Patriots made the move when Chung and Gregory went down with an injury, the team then made a trade for Talib and kept McCourty at safety, it was Chung who lost his starting job on defense, if McCourty was actually a failure it would have been him as a reserve.

 

[Kontradiction]

Did McCourty in fact fail or was the move to safety out of need? The Patriots made the move when Chung and Gregory went down with an injury, the team then made a trade for Talib and kept McCourty at safety, it was Chung who lost his starting job on defense, if McCourty was actually a failure it would have been him as a reserve.

Outside of 2010, he was failing pretty badly as a CB. A CB needs to have the confidence to be able to turn his head around when trailing a receiver. McCourty simply didn't have that as a CB. But as a safety, he's very, very good because he has the ability to always keep his head turned toward the play. Even in 2010, he was getting lucky at times because opposing QB's were underestimating his speed when he was playing the trail technique. Further, the team was relying heavily on zone coverages in the back end, which is what he played in college. Once opposing QB's figured out that he was afraid to turn his head around and look for the ball in man to man coverage, they targetted him much more often.

 

[VrabelJr]

I can't hate on Darius Butler too much. He had major ups and downs here but he has been playing very well in Indianapolis.

 

[BSR]

So much useless crap, so little time.

In chronological order:
After Wilfork, the entire 2004 draft. Bumblin' Bennie Watson should never have been taken ahead of Karlos Dansby, among others. Guss Scott in the 3rd round was a slap in the face.

People bash Bill for the LaMa & CJack picks, but I was mostly on board with them, so I never include them as worst-ever. Garrett Mills in the 4th round however was garbage, and bypassing Antoine Bethea 3 TIMES in the 6th round was inexcusable.

The Entire 2007 Draft. Stomper Meriweather was then, is now, and Always will be a stupid punk, as predicted. Hard to screw up an entire draft, but Bill managed to do it…and Randy Moss & The Receiver do not count as draft picks.

Lil' Terry Wheatley, Chicken Legs Crable, 5th round talent Kevin O'Connell & Lil' Johnny Wilhite, all before the 130th pick: utter incompetence.

Just as I give Bill a pass for LaMa & CJack, so too do I for Darius Butler. The rest of the 2009 draft however was a colossal waste of a cornucopia of draft capital, save for Bill's last pick of MiniTron.

Jerry Cunnyham in the 2nd round was as predicted a grotesque over-draft. Simply Awful.

Glas-IR Dowling: need I say more?

Tavon The Error Repeater Wilson: see above. Jake the Fake Bequette: see Jerry Cunnyham.

Aaron We Coulda Had Keen Allen Dropson. And the best we can say about Duron Harmon in the 3rd round is that he's better than The Error Repeater in the 2nd round.

This is too easy, like shooting fish in a barrel. How's Bill going to Eff up another draft? We'll find out soon enough, because let's face it: if it weren't for Lawrence Taylor & Tom Brady, Bill would just be another coaching lifer, no more no less.

We need a button that will nominate posts for "All time stupidest things said on the board".

 

[Brady6]

Outside of 2010, he was failing pretty badly as a CB. A CB needs to have the confidence to be able to turn his head around when trailing a receiver. McCourty simply didn't have that as a CB. But as a safety, he's very, very good because he has the ability to always keep his head turned toward the play. Even in 2010, he was getting lucky at times because opposing QB's were underestimating his speed when he was playing the trail technique. Further, the team was relying heavily on zone coverages in the back end, which is what he played in college. Once opposing QB's figured out that he was afraid to turn his head around and look for the ball in man to man coverage, they targetted him much more often.

McCourty was an excellent CB as a rookie when we were in a zone coverage scheme, in 2011 with the switch to the 4-3 and a man coverage scheme he had struggles. I think McCourty excels at playing the football and has some shortcomings when playing the man; this is why he is so effective as a safety because it allows him to play the football.

I still do not view him as a failure, when he was drafted in 2010, it was to play in a zone coverage scheme, which he did extremely well. The change in scheme and responsibility is what led to his struggles had we been in a man coverage scheme at the time of the draft in 2010 who knows if McCourty would have been the pick.

 

[Sicilian]

Simple reality: using a player who failed at his position as a means of deriding those "experts" who disagreed with the pick is not using the best example. 2 people have clicked "disagree" with a post that has nothing to disagree with.


Gotta love Patsfans.com.

Considering the post you quoted said the experts considered McCourty a ST player, and he's ended up being one of the better safeties in the AFC, I think his example is perfectly fine. Hence the disagreement. You want to take McCourty's CB career as a sign of failure. I don't. If he was also struggling at safety, you might have a point, but taking a player who was inconsistent at one position and finding a position where he is pro bowl caliber is not a failure, however your mind chooses to twist it into one. McCourty is playing at first round pick level. The "experts" were wrong, which was the point.

 

[Deus Irae]

Considering the post you quoted said the experts considered McCourty a ST player, and he's ended up being one of the better safeties in the AFC, I think his example is perfectly fine. Hence the disagreement. You want to take McCourty's CB career as a sign of failure. I don't. If he was also struggling at safety, you might have a point, but taking a player who was inconsistent at one position and finding a position where he is pro bowl caliber is not a failure, however your mind chooses to twist it into one. McCourty is playing at first round pick level. The "experts" were wrong, which was the point.

I never claimed McCourty stunk, couldn't play, or anything like that. I simply noted that he was probably not the best choice, which undersold the point, since he clearly isn't the best, or even a good, choice. Your disagreement was foolish. Your defense of that disagreement is even more foolish.


edit: And your doubling down by disliking this post is pathetic.

 

[50-yard-line]

ESPN had an interesting article where they ranked the best and worse for all thirty two position in the first round over ten years.

The Patriots had three bests and zero worsts. Wilfork at 21, Mayo at 10 and Mankins at 32 were the best in ten years at their draft spot.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots

Yeah, but Felger and Mazz did a review yesterday of the 24 Pats' 1st and 2nd round picks over the last decade and concluded that only 8 were any good. And of course, those two morons outweigh your ESPN article.

Among their busts:

Maroney,
Spikes,
Watson
and Hightower.

Think a couple of people here were probably listening...

 

[Hammer of Thor]

Simple reality: using a player who failed at his position as a means of deriding those "experts" who disagreed with the pick is not using the best example. 2 people have clicked "disagree" with a post that has nothing to disagree with.


Gotta love Patsfans.com.

That's funny, because in that video Roger Goodell clearly announced (and the Patriots' draft card said) that his position was Defensive Back, not Corner Back. And he is a two-time all-pro defensive back and one-time pro bowl defensive back. The fact that you decided he was a cornerback is your issue, not Patsfans.com's.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yeah, but Felger and Mazz did a review yesterday of the 24 Pats' 1st and 2nd round picks over the last decade and concluded that only 8 were any good. And of course, those two morons outweigh your ESPN article.

Among their busts:

Maroney,
Spikes,
Watson
and Hightower.

Think a couple of people here were probably listening...

Too soon on Hightower

Spikes was exactly what everyone figured he was, so calling him a bust is idiotic (Felger and Mazz being idiotic, who ever saw that coming?)

I think it's fair to call Maroney the most disappointing 1st round pick of the BB era. Even so, his first two seasons showed promise before his career went off the rails.

Watson, with a 10 year career and an average of 34 catches a year, is currently the second worst first round pick of the BB era.


That's not an indictment. that's a celebration of how good this team has been when actually using its first round pick. If anything, it's an argument against trading out of the first round.

 

[Deus Irae]

That's funny, because in that video Roger Goodell clearly announced (and the Patriots' draft card said) that his position was Defensive Back, not Corner Back. And he is a two-time all-pro defensive back and one-time pro bowl defensive back. The fact that you decided he was a cornerback is your issue, not Patsfans.com's.

Ummm..... I'm reasonably sure that he was plugged in at CB by Belichick and company at the start of his career (I'm pretty confident that we all saw him playing there), and I'm also reasonably sure that we were discussing him as a CB before and after that draft. You can feel free to check that, though.

"Goodell announced" .... good comedy

 

[Hammer of Thor]

Ummm..... I'm reasonably sure that he was plugged in at CB by Belichick and company at the start of his career (I'm pretty confident that we all saw him playing there), and I'm also reasonably sure that we were discussing him as a CB before and after that draft. You can feel free to check that, though.

"Goodell announced" .... good comedy

The proof is in the above video prduced. If you want to claim that he was discussing him as a CB before and after the draft, that's up to you to prove and not me.

Anyway, I'm curious if your opinion of Damian Woody is similar. He could be considered a 1st round draft bust because he had to be moved out from center. I'm fine with your consistency there if you think so, but my opinion is that you're being far too limiting viewing them as position players rather than football players.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Where would you have Maroney on this list? I'm assuming in the last paragraph?

Yeah, I would say so but I remember I was surprised they took him ahead of DeAngelo Williams.

 

[Deus Irae]

The proof is in the above video prduced. If you want to claim that he was discussing him as a CB before and after the draft, that's up to you to prove and not me.

No, it's not. Pointing to a freakin' card is laughable. You think Clowney won't count as a bust, or great pick, if he's announced as a DE and he's converted to OLB year one? Come on. Be better than that.

Anyway, I'm curious if your opinion of Damian Woody is similar. He could be considered a 1st round draft bust because he had to be moved out from center. I'm fine with your consistency there if you think so, but my opinion is that you're being far too limiting viewing them as position players rather than football players.

You're comparison is a bit of apples and oranges. Woody could play center. He played it for 4 years, and he wasn't getting smoked, which separates him from McCourty at CB. He couldn't snap the ball well in the shotgun. Koppen could. The Patriots took a step down in overall talent in order to be more sure of the snap. That was a smart move.

Simple truth: Every evaluator gets some wrong. But evaluators getting some wrong isn't some briliant defense of BB, because BB has gotten plenty wrong himself and is sure as hell not above the criticism. Even worse, Ray chose a poor example.

He could have pointed to the Borges evaluation of Seymour, for example. It's tired and beaten to death, but it's still an excellent example.

 

[RayClay]

McCourty was an excellent CB as a rookie when we were in a zone coverage scheme, in 2011 with the switch to the 4-3 and a man coverage scheme he had struggles. I think McCourty excels at playing the football and has some shortcomings when playing the man; this is why he is so effective as a safety because it allows him to play the football.

I still do not view him as a failure, when he was drafted in 2010, it was to play in a zone coverage scheme, which he did extremely well. The change in scheme and responsibility is what led to his struggles had we been in a man coverage scheme at the time of the draft in 2010 who knows if McCourty would have been the pick.

Considering all the "experts" thought he was a special teams player, he's a rousing success.

 

[PushnPencils]

Chris Canty CB Kansas State

This list is moot.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

No, it's not. Pointing to a freakin' card is laughable. You think Clowney won't count as a bust, or great pick, if he's announced as a DE and he's converted to OLB year one? Come on. Be better than that.

No, I don't think he should count as a bust if he's converted to OLB and becomes an all-pro. If he becomes a bad OLB, then it a bust. I just think it's better to view from perspective of football player versus position.

You're comparison is a bit of apples and oranges. Woody could play center. He played it for 4 years, and he wasn't getting smoked, which separates him from McCourty at CB. He couldn't snap the ball well in the shotgun. Koppen could. The Patriots took a step down in overall talent in order to be more sure of the snap. That was a smart move.

I'll have to respectfully disagree with you on this. I don't think it's apples and oranges. The basic job description of a CB is to not get smoked. The basic job description of a center is to actually snap the ball. Woody failed at that, and caused problems for the offense.

As for McCourty's actual performance - he was an all-pro as a zone corner in 2010. They switched to man in 2011 and he got smoked, then hurt, and then came back as a safety. In 2012, he improved to average as a man corner for the first 8 games before they decided to move him to safety for the better of the team. On principle, I don't really see how this is a failure. The Texans moved from 4-3 to 3-4 and therefore moved Mario Wlliams to OLB. Was he a failure then because the Texans changed schemes? You're calling McCourty a failure because the Patriots changed schemes from one where he excelled to one where he needed a new position to excel. I just don't agree with your analysis there.

Simple truth: Every evaluator gets some wrong. But evaluators getting some wrong isn't some briliant defense of BB, because BB has gotten plenty wrong himself and is sure as hell not above the criticism. Even worse, Ray chose a poor example.

He could have pointed to the Borges evaluation of Seymour, for example. It's tired and beaten to death, but it's still an excellent example.

I certainly agree with you on the basic point here. I just don't think McCourty is the example. Maroney, Meriweather, and even Graham and Watson are examples of BB getting it wrong. Particularly Maroney - who while not exactly terrible, was never and could never be a 3 down back worthy of a 1st round pic. But McCourty is a success story in my opinion, not a failure.

 

[PushnPencils]

1. Darius Butler

1a. Aaron Hernandez

2. Patrick Chung

3. Chad Jackson

4. Terrence Wheatley

5. Ras I Dowling

6. Tavon Wilson

7. Ron Brace

8. Jermaine Cunningham

9. Taylor Price

10 Shawn Crable

11 Tyrone Mckenzie

12 Kevin O'Connell

13 Jake Bequette

14. Brandon Tate

15. Ryan Mallet

* Aaron Dobson....dishonorable mention